In this episode
In this episode, Ron talks about how he broke the wing of the Duellist he’s building. Ron and Tom also cover 3D Printers, and how to setup your glow and gas fuel tanks.
Episode 32 Transcript
This transcript has been lightly edited for readability. Timestamps are retained.
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[0:00] Hello and welcome to RC Plane Lab, a podcast for anyone interested in RC airplanes. We'll share tips and tricks on how to build models and talk about successful flights, epic crashes, and everything in between. Visit us at rcplanelab.com to sign up for our email list and to ask us questions. You can also text us or leave us a voicemail at 818-351-9846. Please help us out by rating and reviewing us in your favorite podcast app. Thanks for spending time with us today.
[0:35] Now here are your hosts, Ron and Tom. Hello everyone. Welcome to the RC Plane Lab podcast. I'm Ron. And I'm Tom. Well, what a week. Yeah, I know. It's been hot. It's been hot and it's been busy. Yeah, it really has. Really like stressful busy, but that's okay. now we're finally down here. We're finally recording. We're having some fun and it's just going to be a wonderful hour. Yeah, I think so. And I'm not bundled up like a burrito.
[1:03] It's nice and comfortable. It's hot in here. It's comfortable. I'm sweating. I'm not bundled up like a burrito it's nice and comfortable it's hot in here it's comfortable I'm sweating I'm sitting in here my speedo we did just come inside from outside running the Telemaster with its brand new ignition yeah and that was a I am missing I am cautiously optimistic cautiously that's the best promiseiously promising. That's the best it's run,
[1:29] I feel like. And that might just be me being really optimistic, but I feel pretty good about how it ran just a few minutes ago. Yeah. I mean, I think it'll be good. Now, we've thought that before. Well, that's true. I've thought that before well that's true i've thought that before i know i have i called it finished but i think we're a step closer to actually being finished now well there's really not much left to replace no and i have a feeling if if we get this out and fly it
[1:58] again and it doesn't work it's probably just goodbye no i'm not ready to throw it away oh you're not to be rid of it i'm just saying that if if this particular setup doesn't agree with us then i will resort to the previous one of the previous setups. Oh. That we know worked before the crank failure. Okay. So if we do that, then it's going back to being stored at your house. Okay. I'm logistically going through my- Yeah, I know. I saw you looking at the ceiling like,
[2:36] how do I do that? Where am I going to put this? It's a big airplane, but okay. I mean, that's fine. So gas, like gasoline stays here. Nitro goes there. Fair enough. Fair enough. I mean, that's fine. So gas, like gasoline stays here. Nitro goes there. Fair enough. Fair enough. Good. So that's that. Hopefully this coming weekend, hopefully we get to take it to the field and hopefully we'll have something more positive on our next episode. Something to report. I'm really hoping.
[3:02] I think we'll be okay. Because I really feel like a failure. I'm really hoping. I think we'll be okay. Because I really feel like a failure. I mean, let's be honest. You should. I mean, I don't want to beat a dead horse, but yeah. Well, although, hold on, though. It's not all been your fault. Like the crank failure, I don't blame you on that one. You could not have known that was going to happen. So you're absolved of that one. that one of 105 I'll absolve you of the first one
[3:32] also because you didn't know the ignition was gonna have a problem with that well no I'm not I'm just because I don't think that engine especially after seeing it mounted was the right size for that plane. That was a 30cc that stuck out like 18 and a half feet from the front of the firewall. I mean, like, I think it changes center of gravity about 17 inches. Yeah. So, I'll give you that one. But you went ahead and mounted it. You told me to. I don't know what I'm doing.
[4:06] Like I fully, I'm like washing my hands of any knowledge of this because I'm dumb. I mean, you're my tutor. Oh, gosh. I don't think I like the sound of that. I'm the student. You are a horrible student. I never said I wasn't. But anyway, yeah. So I do. I feel like But anyway yeah So I do I feel like Confident The thing is just Well now yeah Spit it out it's okay You want to say it's done I feel like a buffoon is what I feel like Because this thing should have been running
[4:39] I feel like weeks ago You want to say it's finished And you want to call it Well yeah I want to But i think you you're ready to no no no i'm not no until okay until we are at the field until i fly it until you have yes so your turn at the sticks let me ask you this i fly it yes works fine yes we're happy with it yes you take it up again and it dies are we done do you still call it finished is that a whole new problem is me flying i think what constitutes
[5:14] finished yes yes completion is you flying it take off to landing okay one successful takeoff to landing complete okay anything after that is just a a consequence of use okay so if i don't fly it for like six months it's not done for that long you could get 100 flights in on it oh yeah see i don't well but i could call it done at that point because technically if i've flown it successfully and it's proven to be reliable, I am okay with calling it done. Done season.
[5:49] Whether or not you have flown it. Okay. Then if it fails while you're flying it, then it's your fault. Okay. After I have proven it. Oh, okay. We'll cross that bridge. Hopefully, you get to cross that bridge. If I don't want to cross that bridge well I'd rather have to work I would like the thing to fly yeah and you on the sticks well we will what we'll get it like said I don't know about this weekend because I don't know what the whole everything's going on yet so I don't want to promise
[6:16] anything yeah but we'll definitely do that maybe one day after work we all just run out like on a Friday night or something like that that's not a bad idea throw it in the car and I'll meet you there after work Yeah, because we get off close enough to the same time. That's true, but I'm but we'll see That's not for us to worry about now. Nope right now. We're gonna talk about the dualists guess what I did what I crashed my Duelist wait a minute right
[6:39] You crashed your duelist already. Well. I was not even built yet. I broke it So here's the thing You crashed your dualist already? The thing's not even built yet. I broke it. So here's the thing. What's the word I'm looking for? I like to make things difficult that shouldn't be difficult, I guess. So, okay. If you go to the website and look, Tom has pictures that he posted of these nice little wing weight bags. Hold on. Wing weight bags. Okay, but we'll come back to that.
[7:10] I did not post the pictures. Everybody who's listening just needs to know that Ron is the one that is posting the pictures for me because I am technically illiterate when it comes to doing stuff online. So let's credit where it's due. Ron has posted the pictures for me. That's irrelevant. It doesn't matter. Weight bags. It's weight bags. Yes. That's what we call them? Well, that's what you just called them, I think. What do you want me to say? What term? Shot bags? Shot bags. Yeah.
[7:37] That's what I call them. Well, weight bags makes more sense. I suppose it does. What is shot? Well, like steel shot out of like shotgun shells but they're bb's yeah so they're bb bags bb bags bb bags i like that's fun to say anyway so if you look on the website you can see these little bags that weight bags weight sacks that tom has made that Tom has made out of BBs and a food saver machine.
[8:12] So these are very handy bags that I do not have because I just haven't gone to the store to get BBs yet. And since I live in the country and didn't wanna go do that, I tried to find another way to glue my The sheeting to the wing. Yep Well, which I really like where you are going with this. I really do. Oh, do you I do? Okay, because I thought it was a good idea. It's a fantastic. However More than one at a time. So here's what I did
[8:39] The time that we went to the to your friend's house where I got this adjusto jig, he was also getting rid of, oh, what's it called? A vacuum machine. Like a vacuum bag. Not like a vacuum former, but it's a vacuum bag. Like a vacuum pump. Yeah, for doing foam core wings. And I thought, well, what? This isn't foam core, but it's the same principle. So I got all of that out and tried to look over the directions and stuff, which the directions are kind of boring.
[9:09] there's a lot in it that didn't apply to me. Right. Because it's just a bag with a vacuum pump. So I figured I can figure that out on my own. I did, however, figure it out on my own. So here's what happens. I got the wing. So I finally took the wing off the adjuster jig. So that is no longer connected to that. And I was going to put it in that bag and just see if I could vacuum that down and see how well I could get it to work because I'd never used it before.
[9:37] Right. So I got that set up. Interesting that you would choose your brand new constructed wing to test this on, not maybe just throw maybe a pillow in the bag and see what happens but okay well but i mean i knew it's going to suck the air out so i mean i understand the principle of what's going to happen so okay i wanted to make sure it would work with that and i was very careful so i put it in there and i sucked all the air out i
[10:02] mean i'm pretty sure our listeners know where I'm going with this. Yeah, I mean, it's pretty. But for those that haven't figured it out yet, here's what happened. So I did it just plain. So just plain, get it? Just with the wing. Just plain, yeah. Just with the ribs. Just with the ribs and with the spars. No shading. No shading, correct. And put that in there so open structure sucked it down in the bag and it worked great i think it set like the the dial on it
[10:34] or the vacuum gauge is supposed to turn on anything under five inches of mercury is supposed to turn on when it hits eight inches of mercury is when it shuts off oh that's handy i think that's right yeah so it regulates itself yeah so it doesn't constantly i didn't know it did that yeah so it doesn't constantly suck it out i got to like between six and seven i was like oh this is working perfect no big deal i'm gonna take it out just dry fit so i see i was smart enough
[11:02] not to actually glue it yet because i wanted to see like if i tacked the back end of the wing the wing sheeting if it would actually pull that sheet down and follow the curve to the front of the wing so i put that all back inside you look like you have a question go ahead okay so i put that all back inside turn the pump on got it all sealed up and it sealed down.
[11:26] And I tell you what, it got up to its little five inches of mercury and stuff, and it just sucked the bag down and just pulled it over there perfectly. So it pulled the sheeting down tight against the ribs. Against the ribs and against the leading edge. Yeah. Now, did you have sheeting on the top and bottom, or were you just using… No. I just had one sheet on it. Okay. Probably was my problem. But it was doing a really good… It was beautiful. Really?
[11:49] I mean, like, actually, I was impressed with it. I was, like, excited. I was almost getting giddy. I would be, too. Like, this is going to work great. Because this is not a procedure I enjoy doing, sheeting wings. And that's… Right. That's the problem. See, I don't want to have to pin it and have a whole bunch of holes in it. Because you don't have the cool weight bags. Because you don't have the cool weight bags. Because I don't have the cool weight bags that somebody else has.
[12:08] But anyway, so getting back to my story. So as I was doing that, it was sucking down really nicely. Like I said, I was kind of keeping an eye on that gauge. It was getting up to the 6-7 area again. And I was like, cool. I don't need to worry about this anymore. This is how I'm going to do it. Well, then as I was kind of reaching over to turn the pump off, I heard a crack. And I was like, what was that?
[12:31] And then all of a sudden, like three or four more cracks, like just in quick succession. And my brain went into stupid again. And I couldn't remember how to turn this thing off. Like it's plugged in right there and there's a switch, but I cannot remember how to do it. I'm just watching my wing like crumble brain went stupid So I finally got it undone and got the bag open to where air was getting back in it And I think there's one two three four five probably five or six actual wing ribs
[13:00] that Broke off splintered. Yeah splintered pretty bad So I haven't decided yet how I'm going to fix that. I can either redo the whole wing, just throw this away and start from scratch, or I could just use super glue to glue them back together because that's the nice thing about balsa. When it breaks, it's usually a pretty easy puzzle piece to put back together. Yeah, especially I've looked at it and those are going to be super easy to Yeah. Especially I've looked at it and
[13:25] those are going to be super easy to fix. You think so? Oh yeah. So the other problem though I did, and this is just me being stupid and I guess not reading a plan right or not being familiar with it. Apparently there's supposed to be dihedral in that wing, which by the way, thank you for telling me that the first time you saw me building it when I still could have put dihedral in it. Well, I assumed, which I, don't assume
[13:51] with me. I shouldn't assume anything ever really, but because in your cut file, not maybe not the cut file, but the, but the cut file that you printed for me here a ways back before you actually started cutting when i traced it yeah yeah has as part of the cut file a wing root rib angle it says wing root i don't remember what it said but it was wing root something didn't say any gauge that's supposed to set the root rib
[14:22] at the correct angle so when you join them you get the correct dihedral i wish it would have told me that like i know you say it does no i didn't know that's what that meant you're right i probably to be honest that your jig is so cool because it can do the dihedral i know it would have been so easy because i didn't even think about checking
[14:40] the number on it before you started it would have been so easy at that time to do it. But here's the thing. So I'm reasonably certain that the dihedral that is built into this wing is because, not because it needs any of that self-riding stability kind of stuff that dihedral normally gives you. Because let's face it, this is a pattern, aerobatic type airplane. It's not designed to be,
[15:06] aerodynamically stable, so to speak, like a trainer, right? So I'm pretty sure the dihedral is designed into the wing of this airplane because it is a twin. And in the unfortunate event you have one engine out kind of a thing, you have that small degree of stability when you have asymmetric thrust from one engine running instead of both oh it's there to as kind of an assist and it doesn't hurt anything if you have both engines
[15:32] running a little bit of stability takes away a little bit of the instability that will yield good aerodynamics or good aerobatics so your case, since you're going electric, you don't, I don't feel like you're going to need that stability, that extra measure of safety in an engine out because I mean, electric's on off, right? You're not probably ever going to experience an engine out with
[15:58] twin electric. Yeah. If something like that happens with an electric, I have more problems than worrying about landing. So what I'm getting at is I think you'll be fine building your wing just like you have it. I don't think… So just a flat wing is good? Yeah, I don't… Well, and it's not truly flat, like, because it's tapered, right? It's, the root rib is thicker than the tip rib. So you've actually got a little bit of taper from root to tip yeah but
[16:25] it's it's still it's symmetrical yeah yeah yeah yeah but okay relative to each other there is a small amount of it's not dihedral okay it's taper but anyway i i think repair what you have i don't think you need to start over i really don't that's good that saves me a lot of work well i mean i wasn't looking forward to doing that to begin with. So I just, time is harder to find now. So even though you're adjusted jig is really cool and it does a really
[16:53] cool job with that. I tell you what, I love that thing. Like seriously. And so my plan, actually, I started programming my ribs for the fuselage, that for not ribs. Yeah. My farmers for the fuselage. And that was the reason. Yeah, my formers for the fuselage. And that was the reason I wanted to get the wing off of that so fast, too, because last weekend I planned on starting on that. Didn't happen, by the way, but that's okay.
[17:14] So I got everything programmed in order to laser cut the formers. But there's always a but. the former's but There's always a but there's always a but As I'm like getting that that fine like the thicker part of it is okay So the way this wing jig works if you're not familiar First off go look at the website pictures and you can kind of see what I'm talking about. Yeah, but it has two
[17:44] Five 30-second rods that go through yeah. Yeah steel rods that go through. Steel rods, yeah. Yeah, steel rods that go through the, like the wing rib or form or whatever you're going to be using in it. And that's what actually sits on top of these little, I don't know, what do you want to call them? These little fixture things. Fixtures. That hold everything. Stands, whatever. Yeah, the standoffs maybe. Oh, standoffs, that's a good one. But these little standoffs that hold everything true.
[18:05] It keeps everything flat, keeps everything true to the actual jig itself. Well, as I was programming that, I was like, these look kind of wide. I wonder how much room I have with these standoffs already. So I did some measurements. They don't fit. Oh, for the fuselage formers. For the fuselage formers, yeah. Sorry if I said that wrong. No, that's okay. I'm just trying to make sure I'm dragging.
[18:31] No, that's fine. So anyway, they're too wide to fit with the standoffs that came with this thing. So that kind of brings me up to my next point of, I've talked about having a 3D printer before. We've actually had a few people reach out and about having a 3D printer before. We've actually had a few people reach out and ask more about 3D printing. I want to touch on that a little bit now. Okay. I love 3D printers. Yes. They have, okay, so if you're not familiar with a 3D printer,
[19:02] you buy plastic on rolls. Filament, right? Filament, yeah, but it's plastic. Okay. I'm a novice when it comes to 3D print. I know nothing about it. So you can get different types of plastic. The only thing I've ever really printed with has been PLA is what it's called. I don't know exactly the chemical compounds. Okay. I know like… PLA? PLA. I think it's some kind of like plant-based,
[19:31] like, I don't know if it's made of corn or something like that. I could be completely making this up too. That's just something I thought I knew. But I've spoken incorrectly before. Remember I called the… Once or twice. Remember I called the Telemaster finished. You did. but doomed it it's not doomed don't say that yet it was cursed before i said that i think it was yeah anyway no but anyway so with with this pla filament it's very handy because that's kind of like what
[19:58] you use all over for stuff if you need something that's going to be a little stronger you can go to abs i've never printed with ABS before that's a whole different temperature print there's there's more that goes into it okay but so this this 3d printer I have I actually bought two two and a half years ago maybe something
[20:18] something around there doesn't matter for Cody because we made him a deal that if he gets all A's for whatever year it was, we would buy him a 3D printer because he wanted one at the time. Well, that was the best decision I ever made because he decided, he uses it, but not very often. So it's kind of a toy that I use like more than anybody else. So why I like them, I ended up making, designing and making
[20:48] new standoffs for this, for the fuselage that I could use on the Adjusto jig. You can do so many things with these printers that if you don't have access to like a CNC machine or something like that, these are small. The biggest problem is they take forever to print. I ended up doing four of these standoffs and it took 11 and a half hours. Oh, okay. Long time. Yeah, but… Once again, you walk away. Right, exactly. So it's not like actual time that you're spending doing things.
[21:21] Yeah, because you can walk away from it, go do something else once you hit start or whatever. And it's quiet enough to where it can print all night, and it doesn't bother anybody in the house. Yeah, so you're not waking people up and all that kind of thing. Yeah, so most of the time I'll start a print, before I go to bed, and then in the morning, or when I get home from work, it's finished, and I start something else. Right.
[21:40] So anyway, I designed this piece, and I'm going to have to print quite a few more of them, so it's probably going to be another week or two until I'm finished printing with getting all this done. But the printer I have is a 7.9 inch by 7.9 inch square base that it will actually print, and then 7.1 inches in Z height. So that's how high it can print something. I don't want to get into how 3D printers work and all that kind of stuff,
[22:08] because that's kind of not part of the scope of what I want to talk about. But just if you have any interest in 3D printers and you have any questions, if I can answer them, I'll try. Reach out and email me, and we'll see what I can do. At ron. rcplanelab.com rcplanelab.com. rcplanelab.com. There you go. But just do some research. Definitely buy bigger than you think you'll need. Like this was not the smallest printer that I could have gotten. It's not the biggest one.
[22:38] I kind of went in the middle, size-wise. And I really wish I would have gone bigger. Okay. So they're pretty cool. There's a steep learning curve a lot. But really like the program I use to do the programming and stuff for it, it's called Cura, and it's a free program that they have updates all the time with, and it's just very nice to use. The other thing that I absolutely love about the 3D printer, though, so there's a website called Thingiverse.
[23:08] It's T-H-I-N-G-I-V-E-R-S-E dot com. I've not heard of it, but I've seen it referenced on hobby websites. Yeah. If there is a piece or something that you want, most likely somebody else has already programmed it, and you can find it on Thingiverse. Just trying to think some of the things I've done more recently, really have been more for my wife, but we do hummingbirds. We have hummingbirds here. She does feeders. She has like
[23:36] seven feeders out. She needs ant moats, which are these little things that go on top of the hummingbird feeder, like where you hang it. And it's just like a little pool that holds water. That way the ants can't get down to the nectar. Oh, I got it. Found the file on Thingiverse. Somebody else had them, designed up. You can download it for free and print them here. Oh, we do. We did the same thing with the bird rest.
[24:02] So there's a little on the bottom of her hummingbird feeder where the little flower things are. I found somebody else had designed a bird rest thing to go on that. So what that is, is just a piece that wraps around it. And then the hummingbirds can just stand on it and sit on it when they're eating instead of, flying the whole time. Once again, that was something that they had on there. So my wife now has to wear a mask when she goes to work and goes to school and stuff.
[24:28] And it was really bugging like the back of her ears. Well, somebody already had designed the little things to go behind there to where it holds the mask but goes behind your head. And then holds the, to where it's not touching the back of your ears. We printed like seven or eight of those. And those actually those were smaller and printed fast so i mean it was like 15 minutes to print one and that was kind
[24:51] of nice yeah so i mean your plan is eventually also when we're talking about the Trash Can Telemaster your plan eventually is to cut or to print excuse me a cow a cowl. Yeah. Which I find that really exciting. Yeah. As soon as we get the motor figured out, then yeah, I plan on doing that. When that time gets here, because it's going to get here. Hopefully soon. We're going to get it figured out. But you can make that cowl whatever shape you want. Yeah.
[25:16] Like it can be a simple square to round. You can add like a chin scoop. I mean, yeah, you can do all kinds of neat things with that. Yeah. So I'm excited to see what you come up with. As long as it's under 7.1 inches tall. But it will be. I think so. Yeah, I don't think we'll have any problem with that. Now, if we would have been doing that for the first engine that was on there, it would have been a two-piece. Yeah, or a four-piece. Because that literally, I think, was like…
[25:41] Because it was 18 feet. And I think that's what you said, how far out it stuck. And I measured it. what you said, how far out it stuck. And I measured it. Can you believe it? No, but so that's just a little overview for 3D printers. Yeah, that's cool. They're very handy. And if you're a tinkerer or have any interest in something like that, just bite the bullet and buy one and play around with it. You will love it. Yeah.
[26:02] I can, I mean, I'm tech, technically. i mean i'm tech technically illiterate technology illiterate yeah but i even i can see the merit in owning one of these things but since i have a friend that has one i don't need to own one you have a technology aversion i think and it's not well yeah i can't explain it it's it's not that i don't want to learn these things. It's just that I set my ways, I guess. There is a lot that goes into it. Like, I'll admit that.
[26:31] It's not straightforward and easy and just plug and play. There's a learning curve to it. I think my biggest problem is I can't sit still. Like, you see me over here even when we're recording. I'm fidgeting with a pen. I had to give you a non-click pen this time, because last year, all you heard was click, click, click, click, or last year, last week, all you heard was click, click, click, click. Yeah. And if you ask Lori, I'm sure, she would, verify that I have a hard
[26:59] time sitting still. Yeah. So sitting down and spending a few hours, researching on how to operate a 3D printer is probably not something that's going to be… See, I don't have that problem. Like sitting still, I am wonderful at moving. Moving, I have problems with. Fair enough. But anyway, I can totally see the merit in owning one of these things.
[27:23] And the stuff that you can do with them is… Like, a few years ago, you designed a chicken coop that opened and closed automatically. And you programmed this Arduino thing. And I mean, it was all Greek to me, but I was fascinated by it. Not fascinated enough to learn how to do it myself. But the fact that you had done all that yourself and hadn't. I didn't use a 3D printer for anything on that no but i'm just saying technology in general you embrace it oh
[27:50] oh absolutely well but now why let's think about it i did all that because i'm lazy i didn't want to go outside every morning and every night to shut up the chicken coop. But it's not so much, I don't see it as being lazy. I see it as being a convenience to make your life easier. Smarter, not harder. Right, exactly. And that, yeah, I definitely would rather put a few hours worth of work in the beginning of something as opposed to having to manually do something later. I think that's…
[28:22] Kind of like the CNC machine. Yeah, and I think that's why the two of us get along so well. Like, I don't want to say it this way, but it kind of works out the way. You're kind of the brains and I'm kind of the brawn. Not really that I'm strong or anything like that, but like, I don't mind the physical- You're the muscle. Working with my hand, because that's what makes me tick. And what makes you tick is the really intellectual stuff that I have trouble with.
[28:49] So I think that's what makes us such a good team. Anyway, my update on the Duelist project. As you can see on the pictures that Ron so graciously posted for me. Because I'm technology averted. Whatever, however you put it. You have an aversion to technology. Thank you. I constructed my two wing panels. By the way, I am going to teach you how to do it, though. How to do what? How to post pictures on our site. Okay. Anyway, so, yeah, constructed them the old-fashioned way.
[29:22] He just rolled his eyes, by the way, and just went on with his story like I didn't say that. So, I guess we know that's not going to happen. And I'm not going to interrupt you again, so go on. No, it's okay. I mean, you're right. I should be able to do that on my own and not have to, you take up your time, which is in short supply right now anyway. That's the same way for everybody. It's okay. When it's something I could be doing.
[29:44] So, I will. I will learn how to do that. anyway when that's the same way for everybody okay when it's something i could be doing so i will i will learn how to do that but yeah i constructed my two wing panels built them right over the top of the plan without the assistance of a jig which is what makes me tick that's how i learned to build so that is okay with me and i've got the skins all glued together or the sheets i should say to make those skins all glued together and
[30:05] that's where it's at let me ask you a question okay so you say you learned how to build on top of the plans cool i have no problem with that but do you see pros and cons to using the wing jig or are you just like okay i know you said you had one but i think you said you couldn't find all the pieces for it yeah it's it's incomplete and i've never actually used it okay i'll be honest okay like so then i i guess my point is if if you had that sitting at your
[30:39] house one just like what i have would you have used that or would you have still gone old school? For this project? So in the interest of time and something I'm comfortable with, and because this is a dualist and I want it to be right, and I'm, right. And I'm, right is, is relative, right? So, in the interest of, of saving myself some time and, I don't want to say worry, but I don't want to learn a new technique
[31:17] on this project. So no, I would say that if I had an adjuster jig at home for this project, I probably would not have used it on the dualist. Okay. Even if the ribs that were cut would have had the holes in them? Right. Probably not. Really? Yeah. I'm very, I'm intrigued by that. Now, listen, if I had, if I was building a great planes, big stick or, an airplane that I I don't
[31:46] want to say I didn't care about, but an airplane that didn't mean as much to me as this dualist is going to mean. Yeah. I probably would have, I probably would have taken the time to learn how to use it and drill the holes or whatever you got to do to get the ribs to work. I'm saying if the holes were already drilled in this, even so, okay. okay okay if it were an airplane like that yeah absolutely i would have because i can totally see the pros i mean like i having seen it here with my
[32:10] own eyes on yours i'm actually thinking i'm gonna try to find one of these things and learn to use it because it sure does look like it makes everything like i don't want to say perfect, but really easy to get really close to perfect. If that. No, I, I, I fully understand what you're saying. So I, I, I don't like to spend a lot of time on details. Like I'm, I'm more of like a, if we're building a house, I'm, I'm a framer. I'm
[32:42] not somebody that's going to finish drywall. Does that make sense? Yes. So I like to see something happen quickly. Right. To me, using that really helps take away any of the problems I might have that I don't know I would have. Does that make sense? No, and it makes perfect sense because you see it right away. Well, not only that. But I mean, you line up the ribs on this thing and you can see instantly how big it's gonna be oh well I can see where
[33:10] I'm gonna run into a problem here I'm not gonna have access unless I build this first or this second oh I better add this in now because once this is covered in cheating I'm not gonna get to it or whatever no I totally see what you're saying yeah and I like the fact that I can flip it over work on the top and the bottom the only thing I couldn't do with that on there is put that single spar on the bottom. Oh, because of the rod. Because the
[33:33] rod is in the way. But once that was taken off, I can easily put that underneath. There's enough, there's enough, like the, the spars that are on there already are enough to hold that in place to where I'm not worried about it moving before I glue it. Well, plus you have two solid steel rods holding everything in place too. Well, not now. Well, but I mean, everything but that one single spar plus the, plus, I mean, you could even, before you even.
[33:59] Oh, see, I pulled the, I see what you're saying. What I'm saying is you could have went ahead and sheeted the top of the wing before you even put that bottom spar in that originally was my plan but you got excited well i didn't have the weights and i didn't know how to do it so had i had i not had the or had i had the stuff on hand i would have been happy to run the weights i had out here so you could get
[34:20] that done but i thought about asking but i just i would have it was like saturday morning and I was like, I'm going to get this done. And then I ended up breaking it. So probably should have, but it can be repaired. It can be repaired. And I actually kind of like the idea of doing it that way. I do too. I'm yeah. So, okay. Here's my question then. Would you like, since I, I, I pretty sure the only problem I had was the fact that that bottom spar was not in,
[34:45] and that's where they all broke. Yeah. And you didn't have any sheeting on the bottom. Well, that's what I was going to say. Do you think you would try it again by gluing up all of the sheeting, top and bottom, and then tacking it in place and then running that inside that wing bag again? I would. Do you think you'd do that? Yeah, I would. Okay. Well, that's probably how I'm going to do it then. Yeah. ask you this can you turn the high end of the vacuum down yes and i
[35:10] will well yeah i can turn it down to three and five i think five millimeters of mercury or inches five inches excuse me i don't know what it means but i just know it says i am hg yeah yeah five inches of mercury i think well you even said that that once it started making the seal and started sucking it was the the sheeting was coming down nicely down yeah beautifully yeah so i think i mean yeah i would have i would have no worries at all cool
[35:37] then that's how i think i'm going to try it yeah i'm excited about seeing that in operation because if that works for you i may bring my panels over here and do them into do them separately it'll be easier for you since you have two panels right and they're smaller yeah because there's two plus you use the c-grade balsa so oh and you're sheeting the whole thing too I'm not sheeting the whole wing true that's right yeah I am shooting the whole wing
[36:00] and you're gonna omit the sheeting from what four out or something like that five out no I'm going all the way down the wing i'm just oh you're just not doing all the way not doing the whole cord you are where the nacelles are though right all the way back yeah no well how are you going to take up that extra thickness and what are you going to glue the nacelles to well i don't know maybe i'm going to now okay i mean i i've never built one of these
[36:22] before so i don't know okay well i mean you okay, yes, I would not have any fear at all of sheeting it that way. And those are pretty, like, back that area that I would have to glue for the nacelles. That's pretty straightforward. Yeah. So I would have no problem just doing that without the wing bag. Like not putting it under vacuum to do it when I do it later,? Yeah. Because there's no curve to it. Right. It's flat. Yeah. Or straight or however you want. Okay. Well, cool.
[36:50] But yeah, no, I think the vacuum bag idea is a great idea. And I think once you have that spar in and you have sheeting on the top and the bottom, I think it'll go swimmingly. Cool. Turn the vacuum down some. I will. But I know my next step then and we'll tell you next week how it goes. Yeah. Hopefully we'll have good news next week. And not that I have to start over. Hopefully we have lots of good news next week. I'm just saying. Oh, yeah? Like what? Am I missing something?
[37:19] Maybe the Telemaster flying. I don't think I'm going to make it out this weekend. Okay. That's my problem. I already tried to tell you that. I don't think I'm going to make it out this weekend. Okay. That's my problem. I already tried to tell you that. I don't think I'm going to. You can take it. If you want to take it, you can take it if you think you're going to go out to the field. But I don't know if I'm going to make it out. Well, I don't want to take it out there.
[37:36] I don't want you to either. Okay. But, I mean, if you have some time, like maybe Friday night or Saturday or Sunday, maybe I can come out and we'll run it yeah for more more time maybe a whole tank that would be good see what happens yeah i'd be up for that so that's where we are in the dualists that's the update i have that was a long-winded update yeah sorry i tend to ramble on that but i'm really excited about the dualist and
[38:02] i'm really i'm really intrigued about the about the vacuum bag i think that's yeah i'm really excited because i to be honest when it comes to sheeting wings it's not fun no that's not part of it either that's not part of the construction that i enjoy yeah like the part i've done so far the cutting the rib i mean it's still better than a bad day at work but you enjoy cutting it's still better than a bad day at work, but you enjoy cutting
[38:25] the ribs. It's still better than a good day at work. What are you talking about? Okay. No, but I enjoy cutting the ribs. I enjoy, putting the spars on and actually see something come together. But once again, that's more of that finishing work that I just, I'm not a huge fan of. Yeah. Like with covering, I enjoy covering. I don't like the trim work. Yeah. Which is weird because that's, I mean, that's what makes
[38:45] it pop. if you do the trim work right, they look beautiful. Yeah. And the Telemaster does look sharp. Yeah. I mean, let's say, I don't think that was all that difficult. So that one didn't bother me at all because there wasn't a lot of cutting with it. It looks complicated. I mean, like, cause there's a lot of curves and a lot of, I mean, I know you had some assistance with the curve pieces. With the vinyl cutter, yeah.
[39:07] But, like, a guy like me doing that, at home by hand, that looks tedious to me. So, I mean, it looks really good. I like how it looks. Yeah. By the way, we'll add pictures, because I don't have any pictures of that on the website, I realized. Oh, yeah. We will put, because we did get some pictures of it flying that time you flew it. I will throw those also on the airplane pictures part of the site. So go ahead and check it out
[39:33] if you want to see what the Telemaster looks like. Yeah. It's sharp. I like it. Me too. So shall we move into what I wanted to talk about? Yeah. Let's move on to plumbing. Plumbing. Right. Yeah. So. I mean, that's what we're doing, right? Yeah, let's move on to plumbing. Plumbing, right. Yeah, so… I mean, that's what we're doing, right? That's what we're talking about. Essentially, yes. So aircraft fuel systems, gas and nitro, I want to talk about, because we haven't really talked
[39:55] about it much, honestly. No, we haven't. And that was an issue that, we were curious about, with the whole Telemaster thing, is our tank in the right place? Is it plumbed correctly? Are we using the right fuel line? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Lots of stuff. And by we, you mean you. Because I was like, you tell me what to do. I don't know. I'm such a failure. I'm a student. My teacher has failed me. I'm such a terrible teacher.
[40:20] So anyway, I thought maybe since we haven't really addressed it, I thought maybe it might be a good subject to talk about. Good idea. So for all of us nitro and gas guys. I have gas. I'm a gas kind of guy. Oh, you have gas. I'm here to affirm. Yeah, anyway, we don't need to go down that road, I don't think. So your fuel tank, right? Most nitro guys who have been nitro guys for a while are going to understand the concept of
[40:57] keeping your tank center line in line with the fuel nozzle of the carburetor. And if you're not familiar with that, it's just a simple matter of taking where the center line of the carburetor. And if you're not familiar with that, it's just a simple matter of taking where the center line of the tank is, usually where the stopper is located, making motions with my hands of stopper. But that should be in line with the spray bar in the carburetor as much as possible. Take a step back.
[41:20] What's a spray bar in a carburetor? I'm glad you asked. When I see a carburetor, I see the little top thing, the air intake. But I don't know what you're talking about as a spray bar. So if you look down into the carburetor, assuming you can see down into the opening, usually somewhere in that black hole of an opening, there is something sticking out in the middle of it. And sometimes they go all the way across. Sometimes they just poke halfway through.
[41:46] Every carburetor is not made exactly the same way. But that thing sticking out into the void of that open throat of the carburetor is the spray bar. Or at least the place where the fuel gets atomized with the air that's coming in the venturi of the carburetor. Okay. And you want to have that as close as possible or as much as possible in line with the center line of the tank. Why? On a non-pumped engine. Because we can run into issues like siphoning.
[42:18] So if the tank center line is higher than that spray bar, fuel will tend to want to run to that, whether the engine is running or not. So, can cause issues like kind of like what we were experiencing with that ASP 91 that we tried, fuel was, we never seemed to be able to get the thing to run right at low and the low
[42:40] end. And then when we got that fixed, it wouldn't run right on the high end because it was getting an inconsistent fuel supply. And then when you add muffler pressure to that, then you're, you're just making the problem even worse because then you have all this extra fuel that's trying to run away from the fuel tank to the carburetor. Now we're pressurizing the tank. So now we have even more. So yeah, if your fuel tank's too high,
[43:03] that can cause that sort of siphoning problem. Also, conversely, if the tank is too low, the engine may have difficulty drawing the fuel from it because it has to overcome gravity. Muffler pressure sometimes helps, but it doesn't always solve that sort of a situation. So it's important to get the tank center line as close as you can to the spray bar, in line with the spray bar or the carburetor. So that's one thing you got to think about when,
[43:33] when you're plumbing up your airplane and, you're installing your fuel tank. Most of the ARFs and stuff, they factor that sort of thing into the design. So it's almost, I don't want to say foolproof, but usually when you put the tank where they tell you to put it you're close enough to make to make it work four-stroke engines are a little bit more problematic because number one most of them are hard to see the spray
[43:57] bar because the thing is pointing the opposite direction from where you're normally looking so you have to either get under the airplane if it's inverted, or if it's right set up, you have to get under the airplane to look up into the, anyway, you can kind of assume that the center line of the throttle barrel, like where your linkage attaches, like the throttle arm, usually that center line of that,
[44:19] the end of that is going to be where your spray bar is. So all four strokes then are, that is going to be where your spray bar is so all four strokes then are the carburetors mounted differently than a two-stroke well not that they're mounted differently it's just that usually so like if if an engine is mounted upright okay on a two-stroke usually i mean always the carburetor's right side up you can just look right down from the outside assuming there's no
[44:43] cowl or anything in the way right on a four-stroke right side up the you can just look right down from the outside, assuming there's no cowl or anything in the way. Right. On a four-stroke, right side up, the Venturi is actually pointing down, so you have to look up to look into it because it has to go up. it's in the intake tract is going up to get to the intake valve. So it goes up and makes the turn and then goes down into the intake valve. Oh, I didn't know that. Well, yeah.
[45:03] I guess I never paid attention to them. Yeah, all your SOs are like that, and all your OSs, all the Y. I mean, every four-stroke I've owned has been that way. Okay, so then it's mounted upside down to a two-stroke. Relative to a two-stroke, right. But anyway, you can usually always, well, you can always assume that the spray bar or the carburetor centerline is going to be the center of wherever your throttle linkage is. whatever that arm is
[45:31] connected to, the centerline of that barrel is usually where the spray bar is. So if that is in line with the centerline of your tank, you're golden. So two things to, to keep in mind when you're mounting your tank is that tank center excuse me is that tank center line and if it's too low so you said if it's mounted too high you can have siphoning issues what if it's too low well like i said if it's too low the engine has to overcome gravity
[45:55] and has to pull the fuel up right so you could be dealing more with a like a like a lean condition yep okay exactly so and like i said muffler pressure sometimes well will help or mask a a tank position problem especially if it's too low but as as much as you can that send those two center lines should coincide you want them to be done right the first time yes exactly
[46:20] and then that'll eliminate a lot of frustration and headache, later on down the road, which I've demonstrated with the Telemaster. Yep. Yeah. So, so there you go. There's, there's two types of fuel, obviously, that we use. We use gas or we use glow. Glow fuel, as we've talked about in one of our very first episodes, is basically alcohol or methanol mixed with oil and then sometimes varying percentages of nitromethane. And then gasoline obviously is gasoline with oil in it.
[46:52] So they require different types of plumbing. And I'll get into that. So on a nitro motor or a glow engine, we use fuel lines and stoppers. Anything that's going to contact that fuel has to be specific for nitro. The reason is, or methanol, the reason is alcohol, doesn't react well with certain chemicals. And those chemicals that are contained in most fuel type tubing or tubing, as most mechanics, like auto mechanics can attest,
[47:28] today's fuels, they don't get along well with like neoprene, which is in a lot of the vacuum hoses and stuff that we've used in the past on cars. Well, now there's more and more alcohol in the gas cleans we use. So they've had to move away from that and so for nitro fuels or for glow fuels we use silicone tubing because the silicone is impervious to the alcohol and the nitro that's in some of our alcohol fuels however silicone doesn't
[47:59] get along well with gasoline so then we have to use other types of fuel lines, in this case, Tygon, which is the yellow stuff you find at most like implement store, like Big R, Tractor Supply, places like that, where you go into the small engine area. And that is fine with gasoline, but it tends to harden over time. So it requires replacing, frequently. So here's the thing about gasoline. I learned this when I was
[48:25] a kid. So I don't remember what it was. I think the lawnmower ran out of gas or something. My dad asked me to go get, like a can of gas and bring it out to him. Well, I didn't know what I was doing. I was young. So I went inside and got a styrofoam, a styrofoam cup, and went and put the gas in it, and took it out just so we could put enough in there to get running or something. And sure enough, by the time I got out
[48:54] there, there was no gas left in there and there was no bottom to the cup. Yeah. Styrofoam and gasoline don't get along. They do not. It just disintegrates. Right. I mean, it eats it up very fast. Yeah. And if any of our listeners are familiar with the old Byron airplane brand, model airplane brand, they produced a lot of different kinds of airplanes. They had some fiberglass fuselage kits, but a lot of the airplanes they made were made of styrofoam,
[49:20] and then you would either fiberglass them or what have you. Yeah, we had to take measures if we were going to be using gasoline engines. They weren't as common back then, but we had to take measures to protect the inside of the airframe from possible tank ruptures and things like that because of that very reason. Oh, yeah, that would just make it go away completely. Never thought of that, yeah. That's funny. I remember those days. Another thing about gasoline too. Oh
[49:45] my gosh. So when I was in high school, I bought my first dirt bike and we were working on trying to get it to run and stuff. It hadn't run for a long time. And there, I was friends with a couple football players, bigger guys and stuff. And so long story short, we got into an argument about what burns, the liquid gasoline or the fumes. And I told him, well, the fumes burn, it's not the actual liquid.
[50:14] And they thought it was the liquid, right? So we had drained this gasoline out of this motorcycle that had been sitting for several years. And I mean, it was, it was tarnished. It was varnished. It was, whatever it It was that discolored stuff. But it was in a plastic container. And so me being as smart as I am, I took a lighter to it and lit it on fire, and it just burnt. I mean, it didn't explode. It just burnt. Well, I had enough time to tell them,
[50:44] hey, I'm right. See, that's all that's burning. And this is probably, I had enough time to tell him, hey, I'm right. See, that's all that's burning. And this is probably, I don't know, a gallon of gas or so, give or take. So then it's in a plastic container. So what do you think happened? The container melts. And then that gasoline goes everywhere. And then that fire gets huge in our backyard.
[51:11] It burnt our tree and it even melted the siding on the house really like badly. Now my mom and dad were out of town at that time. I just remember my two friends running through like one from the back door, one from the front door and like running into each other in that side inside the kitchen. And you could just see these orange flames through that back window. And it was just like, I mean, I was, I was a little freaking out very much so.
[51:33] And then it burned out as quick as it started and no harm done. But the funny thing was, the funny thing was like, I did not want to admit what happened. And our neighbor at the time was a mechanic. And he's like, we were talking to him and not want to admit what happened. And our neighbor at the time was a mechanic. And he's like, we were talking to him. He said something about what happened. He said, did the light catch that on fire that you guys had outside?
[51:53] And I was like, the light catching on? Yes, it did. Can you believe that's what happened? And so it's only been probably in the last three or four years. And your mom and dad bought that? Yeah, yeah. Because that's what he thought happened. I didn't tell him I lit it because, oh, no. And it's probably only been three or four years ago that I actually admitted what happened. And that finally came. Well, it's been long enough. They laughed. It's funny now. Right.
[52:19] When it happened, it wasn't. Oh, sorry about that. Go on. No, that's good to know. So it's the vapors, right, everybody? And don't. Oh, sorry about that. Go on. No, that's good to know. So it's the vapors, right, everybody? And it's okay to put fuel in a plastic container so long as you don't light the container. Don't light the container on fire. Or don't let the container melt and let your gas out.
[52:38] Okay. Tough lessons learned when you're in high school, right? Yeah, yeah. So silicone fuel tubing for alcohol, nitro, methanol, glow motor fuel, and then Tigon for gasoline. You may also find neoprene tubing out there, which is what we used to use for gasoline. Not so much anymore because even our gasoline these days has some ethanol in it, out of the pump anyway, and neoprene doesn't play well with ethanol. So now we don't use that. We just use Tigon.
[53:11] But unfortunately, Tigon, over time, gets hard. Gets brittle. And brittle, yeah. So if you have a gasoline-powered airplane, you should periodically check your fuel lines, and I would say every couple of years, I would replace all of it with fresh. Now with a gas setup, like gasoline, are you okay leaving gasoline in there, or should you drain it out? So there's two schools of thought on that. Let me guess. One is drain it, and one is leave it in? Right. Okay. Which one do you belong to?
[53:46] Well, there's, and so, and to take that a step further, there are those who believe you should run your engine, gasoline, you should run your engine completely dry to include no fuel in the carburetor. And see, I've always heard that's bad. And seeing that's, I'm a firm believer of leaving fuel, at least in the carburetor. I'm a firm believer of leaving fuel, at least in the carburetor.
[54:11] I try to get in the habit of taking the fuel out of the tank just because to get an airplane in and out of my house, especially a bigger one, I'm turning it upside down, right side up, turn it on its side to work it through the door and down the stairs. I don't want any of that gas coming out of my vent line and getting on my carpet. So I defuel it. But I don't run the engine until it's dry. I like to leave fuel because what's in our fuel, there's lubricant also, right?
[54:35] There's a little bit of oil, which keeps those seals… Pliable? Yeah, for lack of a better word. Thank you. Pliable. Malleable? Malleable, soft, supple. I mean, I can go on. But that was an issue remember in the original on the first carburetor on this particular DLE engine that diaphragm was deformed because I believe that it was dry and it had gotten hard over time because it was no lubricants in its presence over the gasoline will evaporate after a while, right? Absolutely.
[55:06] But the oil will not. But the oil will not. So you'll have that oil left behind. So I prefer to leave, at least in the carburetor, some fuel. But that's just me. There are guys out there that will argue to the extreme on the opposite. Now, on a glow engine on a on an engine that uses methanol for for fuel absolutely dry dry dry you want to get as much of that glow but what do i do afterwards we put oil after run oil into it so because we know the fuel is hydroscopic
[55:40] exactly so it's gonna x moisture yeah and you don't want any moisture in your engine. Exactly. So anyway, yeah, I prefer not to run them dry. I will defuel the tank and get as much out of the tank as I can just simply because I don't want that dripping on my carpet when I get it in in the house. But as far as the carburetors go, I am of the leave fuel in it camp. Well, like when you're finished weed eating, you don't run the gas out of your weed eater. Nope. I mean, I don't.
[56:10] When I'm done using a chainsaw, I don't run the gas out of all that. Nope. I mean, I don't think these engines… You don't run the gas out of your car when you shut it off at the end of the day. Hopefully not. I mean… But no, I mean, you're right. Well, then we don't have carburetors on cars now anyway. That's true. But, I don't think there's really a big difference between the engines we use on airplanes and the engine that we use for regular around the house. No. Yeah.
[56:36] I mean, they're derived from implements. Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. Weed eaters and chainsaw. I mean, that's where these engines came from originally so yeah i leave oil or i leave fuel in the carburetor so so setting up the fuel lines i'm a big fan of the three line setup since we're talking about tanks which is a feed line for the carburetor a vent line to allow the fuel tank to vent as the level rises and falls. And then also I like to have a
[57:07] third line for filling, especially for engines that are fully cowled in, or maybe it's not easy to get to the inlet line, the carburetor line to fill the tank. I'm sorry, I just want to make sure you might've said it and I missed it, but this is gasoline engine or is this i do this for for all engines for gasoline and nitro yeah okay the convenience of having that third line is handy but then so instead of a vent though wouldn't that on a nitro one wouldn't the other
[57:38] line go to the the exhaust yeah i mean it's still called a vent line, but it's the muffler pressure line that goes to the vent in the tank. Okay. Yeah. And then on a gasoline, it's just a vent. It just goes someplace convenient on the airplane to ambient air pressure. But I like a third line to fill, and I can run that either outside the cowl with a fuel dot or just a line someplace kind of out of the way with a plug in it to fill.
[58:07] And that line gets ran on the inside of the tank similar to the pickup. So it'll have a clunk at the end of it, just like the pickup line. And I try to have them both routed to the bottom of the tank so that you can bring all the fuel out of it with that fill line. Yeah, and so then that keeps that line low for when you're defueling your airplane. Exactly. Right. Okay. So, yeah. So I like the three line
[58:29] setup, but you can certainly get away with a two line setup, especially if you're using one of those inline fueler devices. I think Dubro makes them, Great Planes makes them, a company called Foremost back in the day made some really slick ones that were like, they folded out and they were aerodynamic, they were kind of neat. And you can get away with that on a two-line setup but i just like the convenience of a
[58:48] three-line setup okay but i'll be honest you don't like using those i don't like using the inline fuelers no i don't and i never really thought about it before until i had problems with an airplane like we couldn't get it to run. And then you finally bypass that hose or, you bypass the, the filler valve, the filler valve. And it ran like a dream. Yeah. And the reason is because they, they're great when they work like they're supposed to,
[59:14] but, they're, inside those things are seals, O-rings, things that have to, have to prevent air from getting into line and they fail so and when they fail they allow air into the line and then that makes for inconsistent running you can't get a consistent tune you can't get the needles to to react the way they're supposed to which is exactly the problem we were having so yeah ironically and usually you can you can see it while it's running you can see
[59:41] the bubbles usually in the in the fuel line while it's running. You can see the bubbles usually in the fuel line while it's running, depending on what color your fuel line is and if you can see through it or not. But yeah, I'm not a big fan of the inline fuelers. They are convenient, especially if you just prefer to use a two-line setup. Because however they are designed to work, when you plug the
[1:00:01] fueling probe in or when you flip them open to fuel. They shut off basically the flow to the carburetor and open up another circuit that goes to the tank. And then, you fuel it, and then when you flip it back or pull the probe out or whatever, it reconnects. And then, like I said, that's just another place for air to get introduced into the system. Yeah, it's another failure point. Exactly.
[1:00:22] So why would anybody want to set it up that way as opposed to just going with the three-line setup? Because really, a three-line setup seems very simple. if you're into scale, like if you're building a scale airplane that you're planning maybe on competing with, or maybe you just don't like the looks of an extra line that you have to pull a plug off of. Like, for instance, on my P-40,
[1:00:45] I just have an extra line that's ran out kind of at the bottom of the cowl, kind of, and I have it cut off sort of at the end, so you can't really see it. But if you're looking at the airplane just the right, angle, you can see this extra line with a plug in it. maybe people don't want, or maybe people don't want the the added complexity of adding a third line which is really not that difficult well but if they're already adding
[1:01:11] the complexity of having a fuel dot or the the fuel valve well the fueling valves are easy to set up because you just basically cut essentially you just cut your feed line to the carburetor and then you add this thing right right there wherever you've made the cut and then you have to cut a hole or something in the cowl or whatever to mount the valve yeah but to me like after hearing the difference between them a three line setup
[1:01:35] just seems like it would be a little bit more work at the front end right but so much and i agree But so much… Yeah. And I agree. That's what I'm looking for. Less heartache, less heartburn. Yeah. Less frustration. But yeah, so much easier in the long run and less frustration to deal with. Yeah. And I like the fact that once I've connected the tank to my carburetor and on a nitro motor, the vent line to the muffler or on a gasoline, a convenient spot to run a hard
[1:02:07] line as the vent, I like the fact of not ever having really to mess with those again, unless I'm doing maintenance and replacing lines or whatever. Then the only line I really ever have to worry about is my vent line or my fill line with a plug. what I'm saying? Yeah, I get it. To me, it's just like you said, to me, it's a little bit, a little bit, and I mean a little bit more work on the front end,
[1:02:28] but it saves, potential. Well, I think the hardest work on the front end is drilling another hole in the stopper. And that's nothing. And that's nothing. And usually that can be done by just taking the brass tubing and, running it through that hole. Because on, like, Sullivan tanks, the stopper, there are actually three holes in the stopper. It's just one of them is flashed over when they mold it. Oh, I didn't know that. And it's very thin.
[1:02:53] So you can take that piece of aluminum or brass tubing and usually just push that thing open and you're good. It's sharp enough just to cut through. Wow. I didn't know that. Cool. Maybe that was easy when I did it. I just thought I was strong. Well, you are strong. No, I think you're the brawn, right? Yeah, I guess. I would have made it more difficult. I would have gone and heated it up or maybe gotten a drill bit that was too big and messed it up.
[1:03:20] So brass is pretty soft as far as metals go. Yeah. If you take an X-Acto, a sharp one, you can usually take your X-Acto number 11 blade, a sharp one, and lay it inside. And you can usually rotate that brass tube around that blade and you can sharpen the inside of the tubing. And then you can use that to cut that hole if you want to. Oh, okay. I use that to cut through balsa all the time. Really? Yeah. In fact, at home, I've got different size brass tubing.
[1:03:46] Maybe I'll talk about this on a future episode, but different size brass and aluminum tubing that I've basically just sharpened with an X-Acto, and I'll use those to cut perfectly sized, whatever that is, in balsa, thin balsa. Yeah. Well, that's a good idea. Yeah. So most fuel tanks that you get these days, Sullivan know sullivan dubrow great planes i'm not familiar with the more modern ones like these new rotoflow ones for like they get big gas airplanes
[1:04:10] but i imagine they're probably set up to be three line and they have that similar little flashed over extra hole if you it's optional and i would go ahead and use it i like the three line setup myself basically that's how my big Yak was set up with three-line, and that made it so easy to fuel. Yeah, that's pretty much how I think every airplane I own that's either gas or nitro is set up. And then, yeah, the last thing I wanted to talk about
[1:04:38] was the clunk. So, at the bottom of the, or at the end of the fuel feed line or your fill line or both, as a weighted device that is designed to be weighted at the end of the tube on the inside, I think, so that no matter what position you're in, the weight of that will pull that line down into the fuel. And that is usually, it's made of steel, brass. I've seen some that
[1:05:03] have like these centered bronze, kind of like an aquarium filter. Yeah. If it's made of steel brass i've seen some that have like these centered bronze kind of like an aquarium filter yeah if what i'm if you're familiar with those well like a like the aeration stone kind of thing exactly yeah but just something weighted at the end of it with a hole in it that allows fuel into it to keep that line in the fuel
[1:05:21] no matter the attitude of the airplane. But one of those, you should have one of those on both the fill line and your feed line. And then obviously your vent line is going to run into the top of the tank somewhere. Yeah, if you forget to do it on your feed line, you're not going to be able to drain the gas out of the tank. Yeah, it's funny. I've made this mistake on more than one occasion.
[1:05:48] And you would think, I would learn after the first time, but for some reason I never think about it, but I'll run my, I'll run my three line set up and I'll set up my fuel feed line and it'll be a nice piece of tubing, with a clunk at the end and, just the right length. So it won't hit the back of the tank, no matter what position it's in.
[1:06:01] And then I'll run my vent, and i'll custom bend it with my cool little bender thing so that it goes up into the bubble of the top of the tank so it's like perfect and then what do i do i just take a piece of brass tubing and shove it in the the hole and leave it like that and expect that to work and it never you can fill up fine oh yeah but you just can't take any fuel out of the tank so yeah don't forget to set up
[1:06:24] your your fill line exactly like the fuel feed line that way you can't take any fuel out of the tank. So, yeah, don't forget to set up your fill line exactly like the fuel feed line. That way you can get all the fuel out. And then you said, you have to check your gasoline lines every so often. Yep. What's every so often? Well, I would look at them, we talked about what you should do at the beginning of every season, in one of our first episodes.
[1:06:44] That should be one of the checks is look at the fuel lines, maybe, maybe give it a poke. if it's still pliable, you're good. If it's, if it seems like it's stiff, I wouldn't take any chances. I would go ahead and replace it all, especially this Tigon stuff. It's so easy to replace. It's so cheap. Yeah. I think, I think the last time I went and bought a Tigon, now granted, this is at a tractor supply company. I think it was 99 cents a foot, maybe. Yeah.
[1:07:11] I don't even think it was that much. Yeah, I don't think it's that much. And this is at a big, and you can get it on Amazon, I think. Well, I haven't looked, but I'm sure it's probably even cheaper than that. Yeah, depending on the size you get, I would assume. Right, right. Now, with the Nitro line then, is that pretty much good forever? Yeah. I mean, I, it's, it's funny. and I'm probably gonna jinx myself, but I have
[1:07:33] like on my contender on the old top flight contender, that is the original tank and the lines inside it are the original lines that I put in that tank when I built that airplane 15, 20 years ago. I mean, at least 15 years ago. 43 years ago. Well, no, but a long time. Yeah. And they are still in the lines outside that are going to the SuperTigre that's mounted on it are also,
[1:08:07] that's mounted on it are also, I think I may have like put a new muffler pressure line on because the different muffler that was on the SuperTigre was longer or whatever. But the fuel feed line is the same line also. And it's just as pliable today as it was two years ago. Yeah. See when we, or 10 years ago, when Cody ended up putting the, that Sato on his fun one, obviously we went through all that and checked it and I just wasn't comfortable I wasn't sure
[1:08:29] it felt like whatever was in it was getting kind of chalky a little bit so I ended up having him no do bro when I said when they package it they do they do package it with some sort of talcum on the outside. Yeah, no, that wasn't that. It wasn't that? No, because that plane had been flown before. that wasn't a new line in there, because I've flown it with a different engine on it. Okay. So, yeah, I noticed that was weird. Okay. So we just went ahead and changed it.
[1:08:59] Yeah, and the silicon fuel line is really not that expensive either. No, it's not. In the grand scheme of things. Yeah, if it's going to save you an engine out landing, which is possibly a crash, you don't want a dead stick if you don't have to, especially if it's to save a buck. Right. Literally. Exactly. But, okay. And then last thing I wanted to bring up, fuel tanks, like when you buy the tanks for your planes, they work with both gasoline or nitro, correct? Not always.
[1:09:27] Not always. So sometimes, like for instance, on Sullivan tanks, you have to buy gasoline-specific stoppers. Well, right. I'm talking about the actual tank itself. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So the tank itself. We'll work on both. Yep. No worries. And right. So then that was my next point then was the stoppers have to be different. So what is it? The brown stopper? Is that what gasoline is? I think on Sullivan tanks, it's either a brown or reddish brown stopper, I think, is the gasoline.
[1:09:53] And then the white one is the glow fuel stopper. And then I think, read the instructions in the tank, but I think, for instance, I think Great Plains, their stoppers might be dual use i think oh okay but but check to be sure and it will the tank instructions will tell you if what fuel you can use with that tank but i do know sullivan's you have to buy a different well you
[1:10:18] used to have to buy a different stopper i think yeah i know the last time i used a sullivan tank it said that that was for nitro only. Right. And you had to order a different part for gasoline, which it would be nice if they just throw it in there with it. Although, man, I'm telling you, some of these newer tanks, like for these big airplanes, like these Roto Flows, has the pickup that spins inside. Never heard of it. Oh, man, they're neat. Really?
[1:10:40] I don't own one, but I can foresee buying one of those in the future. Because, man, I think it's Rotoflow. I think that's the name of it. There's several of them. And they're crystal clear. The tanks are completely clear. They look like a Fiji water bottle. I've seen people use Fiji water bottles before. Yeah. So it might be something. I don't have any experience. So if anybody has any experience with those, let me know if you like them or not.
[1:11:04] The pros and cons. It actually spins around yeah so instead of having a flexible tank that you have to depend on getting in the fuel no matter what the altitude or attitude yeah apparently the pickup is just this aluminum thing that goes down about where the bottom of the tank is and then the tank can just spin around this thing or this thing spins inside the tank. See, to me, that sounds like something else that could go wrong. Me too.
[1:11:31] How they accomplish that without some kind of seal. Yeah. I mean, it would have to. But yeah, I think they're called roto flow. I think that's what they're called. That's cool. But anyway, they look neat, look promising. If anybody has any experience with one, let us know. Nice. I would be interested in your input. Because you're going to need one. Tom at RCPlanelab.com. You're going to need one when you go with your 50cc little biplane. Biplane, yeah. Yeah.
[1:11:54] Which is back burner, but yeah, eventually I may want a tank like that for that airplane. We'll find out. Yeah. So that's really all I wanted to talk about tanks. Three line versus two line. Now you guys hopefully understand what that is and make sure you're using the right tubing for the right fuel. Well, thanks for the info. Nice. That was cheesy, but I liked it. I slay myself. I'm the funniest person I know. I'm the funniest person I know.
[1:12:32] It's time for RC Plane Lab's Tool of the Week. So today's Tool of the Week, I have selected the Hobby and Craft Square. You were talking about how you use this when you were building your wing for the duelist. you were talking about how you use that to make sure the ribs were perpendicular to the plan. And you said, yeah, they're so cool because they have notches on it to tell you the different size of ball so you have and it has holes so you can see what size doll rods you have.
[1:12:58] And I was like, I never knew what that was for. So I ran, the other side where all my hobby stuff is and I grabbed it. And you're like, yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about. And I said, that is so cool. I did not know. Handy little tool. So on one corner here, it's a perfect 90 degree angle. So you can set that on your building table and you can bump up your ribs against it or fuselage formers if you're
[1:13:20] building on top, like a square box fuselage or whatever handy handy little tool and then like like you said it has these cool little notches so you can check the stock width of your balsa like if you have a piece of balsa and it's not marked and i'm not sure what's that you can just lay it right in these notches oh okay it's three eighths by quarter or what have you that is the coolest thing it is it's a handy dandy little tool this one here
[1:13:44] that i'm holding is made by midwest i believe there are other companies i think zona makes one but anyway it's a handy tool to have not just for building but for also identifying different sizes of dowel tubing even because it's got the pre-calibrated holes so that you can check those sizes. Very cool. Yeah. So you'll see it. I think you'll actually see it in the pictures you posted of my dualist build. I think you can see it in the background. So yeah, that's today's tool,
[1:14:17] or this week's tool of the week, the Hobby and Craft Square, and this one from Midwest Products. Good deal. Still make them, by the way. That's the nice thing. Yes. Yeah, you can still buy this. Yeah. In fact, I think the one I just recently bought was off Amazon. Oh, really? And it's a Midwest brand, but it was off Amazon. Yeah. Same place I got my Midwest T-pins, although they're not T-pins. Are they the red-headed ones? Yeah. Yeah. The ones we like. Yep. Well, good deal.
[1:14:43] Anything else? No, that's all I got. I just wanted to thank everybody for listening. Yeah, The ones we like. Yep. Well, good deal. Anything else? No, that's all I got. I just wanted to thank everybody for listening. Yeah, I feel like we rambled. No, keep those pictures rolling too. We've added or you've added some new pictures to the website. You're going to show me how to do that eventually. One of these days. And I'll try to help you out by taking some of that work off your shoulders.
[1:15:01] There we go. Well, cool. I feel like we rambled on long enough today. Yeah, I think so. Thanks for hanging out with us. Thanks for sticking with us. And, don't forget to go over and fill out our survey. Yeah. Yeah. That helps us out by, by helping narrow our scope so that we can better serve you guys and girls. Yeah. It definitely will help make us better. So I appreciate any input you guys give us, good or bad.
[1:15:26] Yeah, and if you got something you want us to talk about, let us know. I mean, we're always open for ideas because we're not very imaginative. It depends. I mean, if I'm honest. Sometimes we are, sometimes we're not, depending on what we're talking about. So yeah, that's pretty much all I got, Ron. All right. Until next time, I'm Ron. I'm Tom. Good evening. Good night. We hope you enjoyed this episode of the RC Plane Lab podcast. For
[1:15:51] topic suggestions, to ask questions, or to give any feedback, connect with us at rcplanelab.com or email us direct at either ron at rcplanelab.com or tom at rcplanel lab.com. You can also text us or leave us a voicemail at 818-351-9846. Please subscribe, rate, and review us on your favorite podcast app. Until next time, may your landings be gentle.
