Ep 102: Matt and Joe from the Aviation RC Noob Podcast

[00:00:03] Plane lab a podcast for anyone interested in rc airplane we'll share tips and tricks on how to build models and talk about successful flights epic crashes and everything in between welcome

[00:00:31] Back to the aviation rc new podcast you found us my name is joe and i'm matt visit us at rcplane

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[00:00:51] We're here to be with you along your journey and to share our experiences in rc aviation if you have any questions thoughts or want to share a flight story hit us up at aviation rc move at gmail.com

[00:01:03] Now buckle in let's take off thanks for spending time with us today now here are your hosts ron and

[00:01:13] Hello everyone welcome to the aviation rc plane noob lab podcast that's a mouthful it is a mouthful i mean right well hi guys how are you doing we have matt and joe on from the aviation rc new podcast and

[00:01:27] You have tom and ron on from the rc plane lab podcast i was gonna let them say that oh i'm yeah

[00:01:32] That would have yeah so ideal yeah okay yeah well i'll do it real quick welcome to the aviation rc new podcast slash rc plane lab crossover episode how's that that sounds great all right episode 51

[00:01:46] For the aviation rc noobs and it is episode what 101 no we'll be 102 at this point 102 nice congratulations guys i'm making it past 100 that's a big big milestone well so is 50 you guys are doing great too yeah thanks yeah i think it's actually even appropriate for i think we put it out typically every two weeks and you guys i don't know how you manage every week really i don't know how ron does it either if my if i'd had i'd be tipping it to you right now we are taking july off well here's the

[00:02:18] Thing so like because you guys publish every couple of weeks your episodes are typically a little bit longer than ours a lot longer so i feel like your 50 episodes are probably equivalent time-wise to

[00:02:32] Our 100 minutes yeah so there you go i think they're about right because we're we're around two hours with one exception maybe two and yours are almost almost straight on an hour plus or minus depending on if you're talking to somebody or just yeah and i have no idea how that happens

[00:02:49] Because that is not planned that's absolutely not we come to sit down to record and that's where we end up getting bored i guess probably because we have about an hour's worth of patience

[00:02:58] With each other and that's i don't know if i'd say that i'm just teasing it's a lot less than an hour

[00:03:04] Well we always think oh this thing we're gonna start this is gonna be done in a half hour we're gonna be like oh and then sure enough we start talking about this or that and by an hour and a half later we're like oh no we need to wrap this up we're gonna hit way over our mark

[00:03:20] Yeah and then the four hour mark you're like all right seriously it's time to end this i'm not editing two hours out okay so before we get too much into talking to each other about stuff i want to know sure how did you guys come up with starting a podcast and why okay i'm gonna let

[00:03:40] Matthew talk about that one yeah this was i don't know about my brainchild but it was something i had rolling around in my head i'd listened to now my because i'm i'm thinking about it i don't have their names in front of me but it's mike the flight test community cast i was listening to those guys and what ended up turning into the ft after hours or the after our podcast rc after hours is with andre but it was with a bunch of other guys in the beginning and it

[00:04:12] Was ft after hours so i used to listen to those guys every week and i listened try to devour as much like anybody knew in the hobby and i remember just without listening to those guys while i was mowing my lawn or whatever it was i don't think i would have stuck in the hobby i mean i was pushing planes into the ground as hard as i could as fast as i could and some of them were not recoverable i mean i had a a bloody bear that went up about 100 feet and went straight down 100 feet and the battery started to catch on fire started smoldering i threw it out in the parking lot like oh gosh

[00:04:44] But without listening to them talk about how they they were cutting down the wrong tree in like a forest i came back the next day and cut down the right tree after climbing the one next to it by accident oops that kind of like they had those kind of stories i'm like oh i'm like trying to find a line they lost i mean yeah they lost in the tree and they're like oh and then they're climbing it in the dark and then they realized they climbed the wrong one so they went back like the next day with a saw and they sawed something down and they thought was the one with the tree with the plane in it and it wasn't anyway it's worth listening to their podcast because they always

[00:05:19] Have in the beginning they had a bunch of amazing stories it was good to listen to what it was was it kept me in the hobby and i kept thinking and then i started noticing like they were all saying i'm done i don't have any more content i'm out and of course now 50 episodes or in your case it's 100 episodes plus in i'm looking at going like hey i understand that now so it's pretty hard to pick up some content but i said but at the same point like it was them talking about the nonsense that they got into and then just laughing about the ridiculous stuff that they tried and that they knew they should

[00:05:52] Have done that they did anyway so that was one aspect that i wanted to keep going right because when you're new in the hobby and that's what our podcast is aimed for it it's really easy to kind of lose faith and lose hope that you're even thinking about doing it right especially if you're by yourself so listening to other people kind of go through their trials and tribulations kind of helps you get back into it there's a lot of times i had put down the hobby knife and i was done only to have like a couple episodes later i'd be like all right i gotta go try it again that sounds like one i

[00:06:24] Forgot yeah i can see that like it's it's a good thing to kind of keep you going if if you lose the

[00:06:30] The drive yeah no yeah i get that definitely so coupled with that joe had just got into it and i was like i want one of the things i wanted to do was get a couple get some feedback on people getting into the hobby and listening to like what kind of like nobody told me it was this because there's always that it's like oh it's easy you just you balance it and you throw it in there and it flies great look and then the old timers do it without thinking but what they're not telling you is like the four or five steps they inherently do

[00:07:03] And don't even communicate that so when you're new you're going like i don't i'm doing it wrong like i don't know what how am i missing this they make it look so easy that kind of stuff and i wanted to hear have somebody who is newer to to be there to kind of ask the questions and to kind of help suss out those those little nuances that get lost

[00:07:26] By the experienced flyer yeah somebody new to the hobby like laurie for example laurie would be a

[00:07:33] Perfect candidate yeah taking a little different route into it but yeah yeah and joe has been an excellent candidate for that too and so as he just got started i'm like hey you want to start a podcast and he's like i don't know so i said it'll be great and i i gave him the cub spout speech it's a it's like a half hour a week i swear

[00:07:58] We both cracked yeah that's exactly what i said too what we can record once a month we'll have

[00:08:04] Them all knocked out in the day that's it remember that it'll be great it'll be like an hour record a bunch it'll be sweet and honestly i really thought it would be a half hour or maybe 45 minutes me too because i was i was thinking i'm listening to like the there's a heli podcast where i it sounds and again it sounds like they just turn on the mics they shoot the stuff for an hour and then they turn it off they throw like a couple like really bad bloopers near the end and then they that's it

[00:08:35] They publish and it's it doesn't seem like they end spend any time doing any editing

[00:08:40] Well that means they're either really good at recording or really good at editing and you don't

[00:08:44] Know where the edits are right and i don't i'm not really sure if they i think it's genuinely straightforward but there's a lot of pre and post conversation that gets put towards bloopers i think it's how they do it so for the most part they just sort of i mean they leave the the ugly stuff in for the most part i mean they really rarely kind of cut and go okay that was awful

[00:09:06] Okay we're back yeah yeah so matt why that like that that's the that's the question i i'm curious to get the answer for like why like so why bother going yeah like why go through all the trouble and like what is your like if you had a mission statement what would it be the mission

[00:09:23] Statement and i think even it's in our podcast it's in our website it's basically to keep the new aviationist in the hobby and give them a sense of community yeah somewhere to start i have to update the website now no i'm just not i'm not looking what is that joe what is our

[00:09:43] Website saying it's it's more about to to be with you along the journey yeah just like what

[00:09:52] You guys say in your intro yeah it is it's just to help the newcomer into the hobby and entertain those who have more experience and tips tricks etc yeah yeah yeah and matthew's right

[00:10:04] Because he did approach me about it being just just a real short bit not much time required and same way you did rod approaching tom and i i think it was more me that crashed matthew's

[00:10:18] View of that the heck man he's like oh i listened to it like six times already and i'm like what you're supposed to like go through it once chop out the really ugly stuff and just let it fly man and

[00:10:31] He's like no no no no no no nope there's way too many edits and adjustments to be made there's noise reduction to be done there's eqing to be done they're syncing up the tracks and matthew's like i didn't sign up for this

[00:10:47] And that's the thing is i had no idea joe was this involved with the audio in in his other areas of life i had no idea it was an audiophile so it was like whoa i stumbled onto a gold mine slash trash fire it was great a bit of both a bit of both it was fantastic and honestly i'm i'm so i'm so happy i feel like it it helped even out the teamwork feeling that we had which was

[00:11:13] Yeah well what about you guys because rod you reached out to me like just we were episode two or three and at that point and y'all were looking to start up what what got y'all into it that's

[00:11:26] Actually i i don't know i mean like as as much as i think back on it like i don't know why i actually thought hey let's do a podcast because that is so outside of my my comfort zone for i mean i'm such an introvert to begin with it's like if i saw somebody out in public i don't know it's like oh hold your head down just kind of walk past them i don't want to talk to you but anyway i don't know you i don't know you don't talk exactly so i i was kind of like looking for different podcasts to listen to and there there really weren't a lot of there weren't enough out there to fill the time

[00:12:01] That i needed filled on the hop right and i listened to a lot they were going away at that point too weren't they yeah like there there really were not a lot of ones that you could

[00:12:12] Count on being there all the time it was it was a period of transition yeah but there was something on the way out and then some other newer ones like yours that ron started listening to

[00:12:22] Yeah and so out of nowhere i'm like tom what do you think of of starting a podcast he's like what's

[00:12:27] A podcast that's exactly true like i i mean i i know kind of what a podcast or it then i kind of knew what a podcast was the gist i yeah i didn't listen to them certainly didn't download them and listen to them on my phone or on the devices in the house or whatever so yeah so i thought well it sounds interesting and the way you sold it to me yeah half hour here half hour there we'll produce a produce an episode once a month see how it goes i'm like yeah i can i could commit to that and here we are two years later years later and

[00:13:03] Yeah and countless hours on your end of editing yeah i took the brunt of that but anyway absolutely

[00:13:10] So after we kind of thought yeah not a bad idea let's kind of look into it i emailed joe and said hey you guys just started out what do you think like is it worth doing which once again that's completely out of like my character i don't even know why i did that yeah and two episodes in he's

[00:13:30] Going to have all kinds of advice exactly i know joe's response wasn't just run yeah he should have been no he ghosted me for the longest time actually never responded i did i did ghost you yes he's like do you should we even respond to this i'm like joe no no no i knew i wanted to respond to

[00:13:52] Him yeah he just wasn't sure how he wanted to make sure it's appropriate yeah it was and i'll blame i'll blame work but it really wasn't work i just sat on it finally no joke i was down in augusta georgia it had been a long day and i finally just said what i got to reply to him and that's when i banged out that long detail well send me a long detailed email to you about my experiences with you or with the podcast and how all that went i was like i'm so sorry for being so late getting back with you and this that and then i think the next reply i got from you was

[00:14:23] Like yeah dude we're like four episodes in and i'm not having that bad a time with it

[00:14:27] I don't think that's how it was i i don't think it was like that at all no but i do remember we went back and forth with yes emails are for everybody yeah they are also the way i remember it and you're probably going to tell me differently is that we we went back and forth a few times and you and one of the emails you gave me your phone number and you're like if it's easier call me we can talk about i'm like oh oh gosh this is this is weird i'm what do i talk to

[00:14:59] The guy about and then finally we we ended up talking on about this for a while and we've kind of kept in touch a lot since and spent several multi-hour long-lost brothers yeah

[00:15:12] Several multi-hour conversations from other mothers since then so man our conversations have spanned all kinds of topics makes me feel like tom and i should be having conversations which

[00:15:25] We we haven't had or anything but i'm just feels like well maybe we should have i don't know maybe show you what it's like call him well i know i will no it's it's i'm i'm just kidding around but i and i remember i think i replied i'm like hey awesome i'm glad you're listening you should do

[00:15:42] It yeah i know that was so in depth i was like okay so joe's the one i want to talk to you

[00:15:47] Yeah well i didn't know i didn't i wasn't sure quite how much how much i think i mentioned about roughly how much time we spend and kind of the effort some of the surprises we'd run into and what we used and it was just enough to kind of get your whistle wet i guess and i wasn't sure how deep you wanted to go and if you're i think you came back asking a lot more audio details and

[00:16:09] I'm like oh yeah oh crap yeah i don't know any of those things it's honestly it's been two years ago i don't remember how all that stuff started either but just as a little tidbit i'll say

[00:16:25] It turns out i replied to you within four days see yeah that was a long time you're the one that

[00:16:32] Ghosted me for a month well it's at a point it's not like we were friends or anything i'm like okay

[00:16:39] Well what would have been nice to say hey i got your email thanks to the reply i'll talk to you soon

[00:16:46] So that's funny because ron just accused joe of ghosting him and it was actually the other way around that's that's really interesting to me i told you i don't remember stuff from two years ago

[00:16:57] Very well so who knows how it actually went well apparently we have the paper trail now but anyway

[00:17:03] Emails are forever yeah i can forward it to you it shows really good i'm sure i still have it in my

[00:17:10] In my file somewhere go ahead in our group i'm i'm the old fart so i'm always like oh what's

[00:17:16] This email thing i don't know what you're talking about are you talking about me oh no i'm talking about me oh tom i'm saying i'm the old fart in our group oh and yeah and anytime it's like oh you

[00:17:25] Just did i'm pretty sure on this episode i'm the old fart i'm pretty sure in like anything that we've ever talked to anybody you're the old fart any guess oh my god run easy easy well that's no offense brian but brian is older than i am so there but we have to be nice to our dealer

[00:17:43] So i don't know oh is brian the the hobby shop dynamic balsa guy yeah that's right you guys

[00:17:51] Seriously you guys need to make a trip to that hobby shop yeah if you're ever in illinois you owe it to yourselves to stop by that place it's if you're not a fan of balsa before you walk into that place you will be a fan of balsa when you leave that place just saying okay so for the listeners

[00:18:06] Who are going where let me find out where this is i need to go what town in in illinois is it

[00:18:14] It's actually northern illinois in leonore illinois yeah dynamic balsa so it's like you would not think based on what it's in the middle of nowhere i mean it really is it's this small podunk town

[00:18:30] Right across the street is actually podunk i mean there's like there's like seven houses they have a big

[00:18:36] Pavilion there they have a big park it's the middle of illinois yeah well it's a little higher than the middle of illinois but yeah you're right what i'm saying what look

[00:18:44] There's there's like chicago and then there's oh lincoln right well and then there's the rest

[00:18:51] Yeah it's like illigan's island i wouldn't go that far i mean illinois isn't that bad it is

[00:18:57] The the town is stashed away in the cornfields in the in the northern central illinois it's north of bloomington yeah and like ron says yeah to see the to drive through the place and to drive by the building it's very unassuming you wouldn't even know really if it weren't for i think there's a traxis sign out front you wouldn't even know that there was hobbies in this place but as soon as you like you get the door cracked open and you get just this like small view it's like instant like whoa

[00:19:26] This is something special this is this is worth going back every month for the last year right

[00:19:33] Take my money so that's what we're talking about dynamic boss that's so for for the listeners that aren't aware that's one of our favorite hideouts that that's a weird thing too like i keep

[00:19:43] Forgetting that there's people that are going to be listening on your side that don't know kind of what we do and then people on our side don't really know what you do yeah so right and that's

[00:19:51] Part of the reason for the episode is i we're about to crack into your world i i am at least i think joe's interested and i'm eager and trepidatious only because it's a very different building style the speed at which things get completed is maybe not totally different it's it's different though it can be it's a different process yep and it's i'll call higher step process

[00:20:16] Where it's like oh i just cut here i pull things together glue make sure they're square throw a wing on it and off we go like that's what foam building is in my mind yeah and i've also been doing it for for some odd years and we'll get to my number in a little bit but it's pretty high i i shared it with joe and he's like whoa hey so it's amazing how they how quickly they creep up on you yeah yeah well when each plane is five dollars that's true and an afternoon that's true and then i i don't know i look i have a job where i do a lot of technical stuff and during lunch

[00:20:52] I don't know there's not too many places to go that are terribly exciting so i'm like well i got cad oh what's this plane look like i bet you i can make that come on and then about two two lunches or three lunches later because i'm a adept at cad i've got a full plan set and the next week i'm throwing it together just to see how it comes together like how my planning worked out and then sometimes it's like oh let's get a motor in this yeah that's pretty cool and off we go yeah yeah it's fun and to see that kind of when i work on things they're the year and a half to two year

[00:21:27] Fruit of the labor what i mean so i'll i'll come up with a design and it will be three years later two years later before i see the physical thing so it's a it's a long term that's

[00:21:39] Awfully slow turn on investment well i'm talking about for what everybody does yeah come on oh oh

[00:21:45] I'm sorry no i i was trying so so the phone building is a great juxtaposition to that scale yeah sure so i can see what i what i dream up in my mind in a night right right it's fantastic that is cool yeah so i it definitely scratches that itch for sure yeah yeah but also

[00:22:03] Is a a little a little bit different yeah it takes takes a little more time but but the the end result is so much more rewarding like even if you don't design yourself say more you don't know if

[00:22:15] It's more rewarding i would think it's more in my opinion well hold on okay in defense of what i'm about to say we have you gotta say it first we have never done what they do with foam

[00:22:30] We've never well yeah you kind of have you designed the sandpiper that was that's a i was

[00:22:35] Told by the way by by joe that's a profile foamy and that doesn't count as a foam airplane it doesn't

[00:22:41] Count absolutely don't worry it is a foam airplane and it is a great way to get fun in the hobby and get started right away it gives you the profile and the look and you get to fly and that's really all that's important yeah when it comes down to it but as you get a little bit more advanced like i'm doing things that the taylor aero car yeah i'm familiar yeah yeah like i've i've got a model that looks just like the taylor aero car oh okay it's like a bug it's got the thing it's got the wings i literally pulled the livery from a historical document i've got it going

[00:23:15] Online and it flies pretty well i have to i bent the axles on hard landing so because they were made of toothpicks basically or barbecue skewers but so i'm putting replacing those with metal but other than that it's it's a fun airplane to fly and it's not like a profile it's right i was just gonna say

[00:23:33] It's more than just a profile it actually has dimension yeah it's like a vw bug made out of foam

[00:23:38] Board yeah yeah yeah 3d with a cone on the back yeah and a hershey bar wing because that's what that plane was and there's a little tiny motor on the back and it works so yeah correct ron we don't do the same thing yeah i haven't i was also going to show you i've i've got a plane in the background that i designed and built that's fully molded 3d foam and i've got to put the 50 millimeter edfs and and the really complex landing gear and i'm blanking on because i'm talking about it so i don't

[00:24:09] Remember i do that all the time don't worry but it's it's one of the things that's on the carrier it's like an interceptor that's on the carrier it does like five different jobs and i turned out one of the guys i work with in the utility industry he's a supplier and i asked him what he did and he says oh i fly everything i'm like what do you mean you fly everything he's like well i i was basically the flight deck manager for the aircraft carrier blah blah blah and i flew every aircraft and i matter of fact got one of the speed records for landing i did like 90 landings

[00:24:43] And takeoffs in three minutes or whatever whatever it was he did i was like what holy crap on that doesn't add up that's one every two seconds i think he was just yeah it's i don't i think it's basically he got planes up ready to go and off oh okay i ended up out and went in i don't know he he described it's a measurement tool that they use to see how prepared they are okay and he he actually flies them too so he comes in and does the landings and he because he wants to know how

[00:25:13] The process is right and anyway so i asked him i said what do you what's your favorite crafting told me and then he showed a bunch of pictures and all stuff and so i went to work i was inspired and i've got this thing it's been sitting ready for a year because the only thing i need is a 3d printed it's it's a really complex folding landing gear rear landing gear and i i don't want to just stick a wire in it and call it done i kind of wanted to have the gear kind of come out that

[00:25:44] Would that'd be the coup de grace okay but other than that it's ready like everything in it is ready

[00:25:49] Well we don't have video so i'm going to take your word for it and try and i'll share i'll share some

[00:25:53] Pictures or i'll find a link for you because i know i wrote it up okay it's one of my many

[00:25:58] Projects yeah so send me pictures then for sure because what i'll do is i'll just i'll add the pictures to the bottom of our episode on our website that way people can see that on the on

[00:26:08] The website then okay then when we talk about our numbers i'm going to share with you my i'll call it my hangar that's on the flight test forum i know that's kind of cheesy but that's sort of like my repository of where i put my stuff and then we anyway you could share that and then basically anybody who wants to see like and they'll be all the build logs and plans as part of that so anyway go ahead i i kind of went off a tangent there but but my point is is that they're 3d fully molded

[00:26:42] Scale models out of foam okay or not or not they're just simply folded yeah like folded and angled i mean the spitfire is a a three bend process to get the the wing folded over but

[00:26:59] Back to you guys no you're fine i mean that's we don't do foam like well you guys matt was talking

[00:27:06] About he's wanting to get into balsa so that was sort of leading the conversation i think

[00:27:11] In that direction like he started with foam and now it's time to come to real airplanes wait no is that is that not what i should say well here so here's one of the things that i'm

[00:27:24] What i'm getting as i go through this is what i've learned is that a balsa airplane will hold up for 30 years in storage you can put in a good storage spot i know it'll be there and all you got to do is just prime up the motor and get it done get it ready and that's all you need yeah i would agree with most of them yeah for the most part i mean there's there's variations on that foam will very be very unlikely to hold up that long you may have one for about five to ten years i mean they hold up longer than you think if you take care of them but regardless it it's not nearly the same shelf life

[00:27:59] But it's not nearly the same investment either right both in money and this is true yeah so i think it's directly proportional right like maybe maybe you don't have a lot of time and investment in the foam airplanes so therefore you get maybe three or five years out of them whereas the time and money you spend maybe on a quality a quality balsa airplane that you built yourself it's probably going to last a little bit longer and which is directly proportional how much time you spent building it and yeah money you spent on it right however they

[00:28:31] All crash the same they do they are all perfectly capable of re-kitting themselves at any given moment

[00:28:38] Very quickly yeah that is one of the one of the big advantages i find especially when you're new which is who we kind of cater to on our podcast to highlight like to go into foam like it's your when five dollars crashes there's not much crying i cannot argue with your week-long endeavor and 300 expense goes in and it's just toothpicks yep it there's a little bit more tears coming out yeah i agree yeah and more importantly you're less likely to stick with the hobby and that

[00:29:11] Sucks because it's a fun hobby it is there's a lot of challenges and a lot of joy even in the i what i've tried to teach my kids is that it's these things are hard sometimes and it stinks because it's hard it's sometimes you just want to quit but boy when you get to that spot where you overcome that difficulty it's even sweeter yeah the payoff and reward for that is almost always a

[00:29:36] Tenfold advance yeah i would agree it's worth it but i still there's just something about a balsa

[00:29:43] Airplane yeah and it's hard to it's really hard to to quantify what that is like what like like i'm sitting here we're i'm listening to the conversation and and i'm trying to imagine the words i can use to describe the difference and i and i i can't it's hard to put into words i know

[00:30:02] It's the feel it's the the it i don't understand it it's more rigid and consequently the the plane's behavior is more predictable consequently i mean that's not always the case but it seems like that

[00:30:19] Tends to be the way of it i mean i've had i've had profile foam airplanes before like i have my f-22s that i flew combat with when i was at tech school way a few years ago and that was a fairly predictable airplane flew the same way every time but it didn't i don't know it just didn't scratch that itch yeah it's hard to it's just really hard to put into words but ron and i i think both agree that we prefer balsa well and there's something that you're not going to get with a

[00:30:47] Profile foamy that you're you don't get the actual shape you don't get the the shimmer and the shine off of the monocoat off of the covering off of the i mean just the whole airplane to me when it's made this way is better than a profile foamy just for the looks and i just certainly don't

[00:31:05] Mean to take anything away especially from like the store-bought the molded foam airplanes that are they look like copies of the one only smaller but there's just something about them like the sound they make when you handle them it's just not balsa yeah it's so hard to

[00:31:23] Describe it i've got some of the eps foam airplanes i know what you're talking about and they're they're like i don't want to mess any airplane up right but it's very easy to dent a wing or to mess up just take a little bit of that pain off if you hit something wrong with a fingernail or something like that yeah on the foam airplanes that you don't get with an actual built-up balsa covered airplane yeah i mean i don't know it's everybody has their own preferences and there's no right but i'm

[00:31:52] Wrong answer as long as you're flying i'm excited that matt's going to try it though i really am yeah

[00:31:57] Me too well yeah and i've got and we'll get into that when i get my numbers but i've got like five or six that are in different sets different types of kits and different levels of difficulty and so i'm eager to start so you you have the kits already yes so i've built a i've bought a couple gillows kits oh oh okay they're kind of small and starter and you can tissue cover them and they look great and i mean i'm thinking about putting like an 1104 with a five inch prop or six by three kind

[00:32:31] Of low end lightweight just just enough to kind of get it moving and have have fun with it

[00:32:38] That way yeah i've seen i've seen a few of the of the conversions out there and they're so having attempted several gillows kits and and dumas and then comet and the others i can tell you that they are challenging at best to build and finish and make them look nice when they're done and i

[00:32:59] Think ron would probably agree with me yeah i've done one and i don't like i would i do not want to do one again yeah i want to build more airplanes but i don't want to build one of those again and

[00:33:10] I've found that as i get older i want to do those types of airplanes even less because yeah right it's lots of small parts and they're they're fantastic little kits i'm not trying to take anything away from them but they're not they're not like but they're small right exactly it's not

[00:33:28] Going to behave and and i've built a lot of small foamies yes and they're a handful in the air absolutely period and and i know that basically that magic sweet spot seems to be three feet to four feet is that which is like the park flyer which is where you start to all those tendencies start to calm down and yeah as long as you set it up okay you'll have a fun time flying it and then when you get to like the six foot mark it's interesting and it's relaxing yeah well sort of yeah ron and i

[00:33:56] Have talked about that before on on on our podcast it's the reynolds number right it's so it's it's scaling you can scale an airplane i know that guy but you can't scale a molecule of air so a molecule of air always is the same size but an airplane can be different sizes so the way an airplane behaves when it's moving through those molecules of air is dependent upon scale so and the bigger they are we we say it all the time the bigger they fly better they fly absolutely so yeah the

[00:34:27] Easier they are to handle the i mean it's yeah i like big airplanes but they're hard to fly mentally

[00:34:34] Because you're afraid to lose well it gets back to that conversation of of of investment you have a huge and like the bigger they are you have a huge investment financially but then you also have that investment of time and yeah i i get that for me the perfect size is a 40 size sport plane i mean to me they fly great they're they're relatively investment wise they're relatively inexpensive yeah and you can have a 40 size little sport plane together

[00:35:08] In a weekend especially with some of today's quality arvs and you can probably frame one up in a week or less yeah depending on how much you work on it depending on the kit and yeah who made it or whatever but yeah for me for me balsa is it just flies better and so it's like

[00:35:26] We speak different languages too like when we talk to to you guys that do like all the flight test stuff and all that you talk about a pack b pack and whatever all that is i i don't speak that language i don't know really what exactly that means but you guys talking cc right well when we say 40 size airplane yeah what that means is it's it's made for a 40 size nitro motor which is usually around

[00:35:52] 48 inches yeah four feet or so in that general range on the wing yeah and so that's a two cycle that's a 40 nitro motor that's supposed to go on the front of that one of those assumptions i i make yeah just that i that i don't even think about that that's what we see a lot for sizing and all

[00:36:08] That like when you buy an arf it's a 40 size it's a 60 to 90 size it's a 120 size yeah and that all has to do with the size of the motor that is designed to run off of right obviously bigger airplanes are going to take a bigger motor and that's kind of how we size things yeah so like i said i know it's different with your c packs and flight test stuff but yeah and and it's more like i like

[00:36:32] To say just like it swings a 10 inch prop and most people like oh okay i mean unless it's an aggressive prop it's like no it's a slow flight 10 inch prop oh okay cool so that kind of gives you a rough power yeah ratio that you're kind of looking at so when people like oh i don't know what that means it's like okay it's it's a it's a quad motor like it swings a five inch three bladed prop or an eight inch or a ten inch and that's kind of where flight test has decided that it's the economics of it become cumbersome for the beginner so they kind of ease back right okay and that seems to

[00:37:10] Be where their range is and that's that's the a b or that's the a yeah a b and c pack which is basically five inch eight inch and ten inch props oh okay and and again you can your mileage may vary and of course there's a lot of gradations right out there beyond what they they kind of they made a quantum set in there so that it's easy but if you do what you want really

[00:37:33] So with the airplanes you fly is like what what or with the airplanes you fly what is like the biggest size propeller you fly with is it gonna be the 10 i've got

[00:37:43] 10 and 12 inch mostly 10 inch but i've got a handful of 12 inch and i've got a couple motors i'm trying to find a home for i'm making home fours i should say that swing 15 inch props wow good nice 15 inch mm-hmm it's it's a those little pancake motors from the the larger scale super efficient quadcopter so i mean i'm not like putting a ton of stock into it that it's going to be this beast but swinging a 15 inch prop is a different animal now i've got a that that dawn patrol plane which

[00:38:15] Is like a single bay biplane that's this little it looks like a goldfish biplane like the the food goldfish yeah okay it looks like anyway so i'm putting this on it because when you scale down everything like the the 15 inch prop is the scale for it it's like a 15 inch height plane okay i can

[00:38:37] Tell you most of my props are nine or ten just depending on which props i ordered in and generally they're slow fly but i do for the spitfires i want to order in maybe some different

[00:38:49] Props that are a bit more aggressive and does that help understand because i recognize that it is it's a different language yeah yeah it's like metric versus english once you kind of make the conversions like okay wait wait wait you're talking kilogram it's like two and a quarter pounds

[00:39:03] Okay got it got it yeah and that that's the other thing i i mean like i understand when they do sizing on airplanes and stuff millimeters make sense for everyone except us man that always like when they're when they're listening like an rf that's 1.8 meters i'm like i don't know what that means like how like just show me like move your hands how far apart is the wingspan on this so i can so i can tell how big it's gonna be right yeah i mean like i that does help a little bit i i never really thought about those different sizes being correlating to the different size propellers so that

[00:39:38] Kind of tells me more about the size of planes and stuff you're flying to although there's kv differences and all that kind of stuff too that we don't need to get into because that could be a

[00:39:45] Very it's more the the nomenclature they use for their product but i mean if you had a nitro motor or get a little gas or a little tiny gasser like if you said it swings attendance property oh okay i can just use this thing yeah whatever size that would be yeah yeah so so a 40 size nitro airplane

[00:40:02] Generally speaking will turn a 10 inch prop at what rpm so you're looking at we're turning that prop at about

[00:40:07] 12 000 rpm yeah that's a that's about what that's about what these go at so there there you go well let's see we just made a connection look at you guys 1 200 kv times 11 because usually a three cell that's 1200 rpm yeah 12 000 yeah so there you go so it's about the same so that you're talking those are the equivalents so anything that's a c-pack if you've got a 40 size motor i guess that's where the equivalency is i guess i didn't realize

[00:40:39] The seat packs were that powerful i thought everything they are it was a little bit smaller awesome they're awesome so what size like what's the actual size of the motor on that do like hand size 28 28 18 ish that seems awesome 28 millimeters by 18 is the stator that seems awfully small for a 40 size like what i usually run on 40 size or again that's that's a stator

[00:41:04] So it's not the bell so i mean the actual motor looks a little bit bigger yeah and if you go much bigger than that then they measure the motor it's actually of the outside of the bell so the next step up is like a 38 20 something or other i don't know what what it is but it's like significantly bigger because they're now no longer measuring the stator they're measuring the outside of the bell and you're like okay well thanks for changing that yeah i'm not telling anybody and that's the one that's

[00:41:29] Like one of the things that that i dislike about going electric is there doesn't seem to be maybe there is but there doesn't seem to be a consistency from what a 28 12 is compared to a 42 10 or whatever what i mean it's like the it's like and different manufacturers measure things differently and that's really maddening especially when you're trying to find a cheap motor off of amazon that is comparable to say a power 46 from from great

[00:42:02] Planes or whatever what i mean that's when you have to look at wattage and all that kind of stuff but i'm not smart enough for that well you don't like yeah i can't do the wattage to horsepower conversion at all yeah yeah well i don't ever work in horsepower for anything electric or nitro because

[00:42:18] It just that's not the number that really comes what's the what's the unit that you guys use for the

[00:42:23] Gassers and then like really it's just size size yeah it's like a 30 cc or a 50 cc or 150 cc or you

[00:42:31] Know that doesn't tell you anything about the power output not necessarily but generally speaking let's let's say 50 cc gasoline engines there no matter who manufactures them 50 cc's of displacement generally speaking will produce this amount okay yeah that makes sense what i mean yeah because

[00:42:48] There's a certain amount of fuel which has a certain explosion rate exactly physically that

[00:42:52] Much energy i mean there's going to be a small percentage of variance between manufacturers but a 50 cc engine from one manufacturer should produce about the same horsepower as a 50 cc engine from another manufacturer yeah within a few percentage points so that's that's kind of how you can

[00:43:08] Size your plane yeah that's about the the small out output losses and the the small minute changes and

[00:43:15] Bearings and yeah and porting and all that kind of stuff it's more in depth than i'm going to get

[00:43:21] Into yeah me too so what i was going to say although i could talk about it for hours oh because hours because i yeah i don't know maybe not hours but minutes so imagine i'm a listener because i am

[00:43:33] To your podcast and i don't know nothing about gassers and you guys have this 50 year plus collective wealth of knowledge so help me learn more you did a great job by the way with the motor episode really impressed with it oh the electric one both the gasser is what i was excited about you did you go with both honestly but well thank you yeah the gasser was the one i was paying attention to because i was like i don't know anything about the nitro one yeah i got you now

[00:44:03] We haven't done a gas one yet that's actually coming up here before too too long kind of okay i'm

[00:44:08] Going to cover gas but yeah under understanding those things to somebody who's in the electric world it's it's very daunting so to break it down in a way that it feels less involved what

[00:44:21] I mean yeah and but bottom line is i mean they're really really simple i mean really you're right there's not a lot to there's not a lot to them they're very simple to operate and they're economical to operate wait what are you talking about gassers oh i thought we were talking about nitro and i was

[00:44:36] Going to say no nitro he said gasser my foot well do you mean gas or night because that's the other confusion people will say gas when they mean nitro because it's still a gas motor it's just not a

[00:44:48] Gasoline liquid fueled motor yes but gassers generally we talk about gasoline powered okay

[00:44:55] I got you i was just a little off topic on what we're talking about well you were busy i was looking at my phone because i wanted to look up so we were talking about the the 40 size replacement that i use for electric and i couldn't remember offhand what size it was i used i found some on amazon that are 35 48 1100 kvs and that's kind of what i use as a replacement for a 40 size and i fly them on a force

[00:45:16] So 30 35 48 are like the next step up where they change how they measure so at a that's like the threshold where they any lower than that size wise and they start measuring by the stator size that's not confusing at all no no trust me i know look i learned this the hard way and it's weird because you're like there's nothing in between i just want a little bit more well a little bit more is the 35 whatever it is you just said yeah and 35 28 or whatever it is 48 because that now they're including the bell which is

[00:45:50] Four millimeters in thickness between the the magnet and the bell and the the goo and the balancing whatever and yeah that double that now you're now you're 35 millimeters

[00:46:01] Yeah and then that that second part of the the number is how long the motor is so that's when you can get a little bit more torque out of them too so right exactly yeah and that's and that's

[00:46:11] The thing when i'm talking about oh i've got this little pancake motor i know i'm not getting a

[00:46:15] Lot of torque out of that yeah so i was showing you length like how far it would wind sorry i was doing an air gesture to tom and he just looked like it looked like you were drawing a paper clip well kind of yeah i mean that's anyway that's kind of how those turns are right that's good thank

[00:46:30] You i mean you didn't see it but you understood what i meant i'm familiar with electric cars right

[00:46:34] I mean i got you yeah i i had to go through the explanations of turns and staters and all that

[00:46:40] When we did our motor episode yep and i forgot most of that anyway so and so this is what what was it i forgot most of it yeah i've forgotten most of it for ours like the one we did like i i don't keep a lot of that stuff like close in my mind because there's so much else that gets pushed in that pushes everything else out but anyway it does yeah i have a terrible memory so do you guys just

[00:47:04] Like to breathe in balsa dust yes is that why it's the best you dig balsa planes yeah i'll probably

[00:47:09] Die of copd because of all the balsa dust that i've inhaled over the years but i tell you what i

[00:47:14] Wouldn't change it it's not the balsa dust i like it's really the glue fumes that get me like

[00:47:23] Yeah they can be pretty rough so guilty pleasure i i will admit that even even now so many years later i love the smell of monocoat i don't even notice the smell to be honest it has it has a an odor that every time i start ironing it on to an airframe it's like ah just memories like oh i'm home yeah i mean it's i don't know but yeah the the exhaust the the the caster with the the methanol it's all the nitro it's all it's all it's all awesome yeah i i mean i just

[00:48:00] Don't want to own a nitro i like what other people do i've said it before but but yeah the balsa dust i

[00:48:05] Mean there's you can mitigate that right you can wear a mask if you want to or if you if you're really fancy you can work on a downdraft type table which are actually not too difficult to to make no i would imagine you lose all your little balsa pieces on those no you you can

[00:48:23] Use a screen and you're not going to lose anything small to a screen yeah okay but i mean yes if if

[00:48:29] Balsa dust bothers you yeah there's there's ways to mitigate it and the same the same goes with ca fumes like those can get pretty nasty yeah but there's ways to to mitigate that exposure as well

[00:48:42] And it's worthwhile i mean it really is i mean it might shave 15 minutes off your life for every every airplane you build but that's okay it's worth it right worth it

[00:48:54] Matthew builds a lot of planes i'm gonna die

[00:48:59] I like i don't like sanding that is the one thing i do not like about balsa it sands quick which is nice yeah but just the mess and all that kind of stuff is is the one thing like where i'm stuck on one of the planes i'm building now is because i don't want to go out and sand it so that always that always pushes me back a little bit that's why you have a couple projects going at once oh always like yeah more than a couple i can't i think i've got at least four right now that i could go start on that's sitting out around the basement in different areas true statement looking at them right

[00:49:34] Now yeah but anyway it's weird there that one's stuck at sanding that one's stuck at sanding yeah

[00:49:42] We each have our things look mine all stick at electronics so it's time to put in servos and hook up all the things and and double check everything and make sure that the arms are the right length that like that's that's that process right it shouldn't take long but boy oh boy it takes weeks for me yeah i'll build a plane and have it ready to go in it having ready for electronics in like three hours yeah but it'll take me a week to get yeah yeah i it's it's when there's when there's something

[00:50:10] You don't really like doing it is so easy to put that off oh yeah and go to something else you do like doing yeah so i i fully understand you're right yeah so let's let's if you're ready let's move on and talk about numbers okay changing gears you brought that up so i think it's only fair here

[00:50:30] We go let's talk numbers well i i didn't even think about it and then you guys started bringing up on your show and and i was like oh wow i never even i don't know that i want i and that's like

[00:50:42] What we get from most people we talk about they're like i had no clue until i knew you guys did it and then i wanted to see what my number was and all that kind of stuff i love the idea just to see

[00:50:53] Where people are at yeah well do we want to start with joe which yeah i don't care who we start

[00:50:59] With yeah yeah i mean if y'all can hear me yeah you're there you're good yeah okay so not that it matters too much but for whatever reason my connections have an issue so i'm in and out i'm here the audio is still going but okay that's largely why i'm being so quiet is you won't always hear me so my number currently what are we what are we saying planes ready to fly and then

[00:51:29] Planes in the works yeah so yeah the way we break it down and it's going to be different for you guys because you don't do like arfs and kits but we have planes ready to fly so literally you throw a battery in you might need to tweak a thing here there but not more than like five or ten minutes worth of work just to get it all set up and you take it out and you fly it and then we have like planes in progress ones that we're working on and then we list separately like for us kits and arfs right okay

[00:51:58] Well i can say depending on how i want to break that down i have either zero ready to fly or one and that one being the master series corsair

[00:52:16] And the reason that it's sort of on that zero list is i don't really have plans to fly it right now and it would take because we recycle receivers so i'm not going to have a receiver for every oh i would have to i would have to pull a receiver put it in it get the battery in it power it up get everything make sure all my channels are right make sure everything's so it would be an hour of pre-work even if i wanted to attempt it i would hate that well i don't have i haven't had a need to have more receivers than i have planes true yes i guess i can see that

[00:52:53] But i always like to keep a few spare receivers around if i can for 12 well now yes but because you never know what's coming up you never know when you're gonna buy another airplane that's true

[00:53:05] Well my number has never been higher than three at any time and that's how many receivers okay okay so that yeah yeah now i now i did order in some more receivers largely because i wanted the same receiver and i wanted each of the spitfires i'm building for flight fest to have their own receiver so and makes sense yeah otherwise planes not ready to go but close could be argued the vulture the hrc vulture because i'd have to mount a motor but it's it has flown the hrc 7 has not flown yet

[00:53:42] That's number two it needs me to go in and fix some control surfaces and figure out what went on with the electronics because matthew tell you we got out there to the field and it went nuts

[00:53:56] Yeah twitchy stuff and you're like what is going on both of us are looking at going that doesn't

[00:54:00] Make sense when you put the four cell in there was no reason yeah but not the three

[00:54:03] Yeah and the esc was rated for four what about the motor so you said the motor was not the motor the motor was oh i thought you said the motor was not no yeah it doesn't make any sense everything

[00:54:18] Was rated for the power he was putting into the system it just was doing weird twitchy stuff well

[00:54:24] Even if the motor even if the motor wasn't the motor had no power to it yet true like i never throttled it up when we got out there yeah that's weird it was just the battery plugged in and

[00:54:38] Servos were doing crazy things i wonder if there's something weird going on with the bc

[00:54:42] Yeah it could be could be so what what i need to do is bring it back here and bench it again and actually put the four cell in it and see what's going on if it's repeatable and if it is then i may have to get one of those electrical noise reducer donuts a choke sure yeah the the little magnets

[00:55:02] Yeah and yeah the little donut magnets that go around it to make it quieter and see if that does

[00:55:08] Anything so three is the yeah so there's three there's a spitfire in the back of my car that is almost that's almost ready to go so i've still got the old fogey that needs a little bit of patchwork and maybe a new wing and power pod and then my glider that needs some internal work so vulture spitfire seven vulture spitfire seven fogey glider so maybe five yeah in various that's not bad so not a ton and then two two or three more spitfire sitting there

[00:55:54] Somewhat cut out waiting to be nice i'm sensing a theme spitfire right here spitfire a lot

[00:56:01] I really like the spitfire it it was the best flying plane i've had yet okay it honestly the ft

[00:56:09] Spitfire is a very solid flying model it's it's it can be a beginner's plane easily it handles really well it has of all the different ones i've flown that one seems to be every time i put it together it flies the way it's supposed to right out of the hand yeah that's how they should be yeah for sure they should all be that but they're not always some of them especially with the phone it's like oh well i put it a little off square so it flies a little funny and if you're a beginner you don't know yeah any better and so this one seems to just make up for any ill tendencies that

[00:56:44] You may put into it for the most part also yeah so we were just like hey look everybody everybody should build one of these and bring it to flight fest because we're going to that festival event the flying fest hopefully we'll get the flight all together yeah that should that

[00:57:00] Actually should be pretty cool or pretty cool that's coming up when is that at the end of next month end of june yeah june 23rd through the 26th i think all right so how far of a drive is that for you guys it's nine hours yeah it's only nine or ten hours that's not terrible is that the one in

[00:57:17] Champagne no no no that's the one in ohio it's malvern ohio yeah okay that's about right on

[00:57:25] The border of pennsylvania yeah it's pretty far from here but that's where flight fest does their thing every year so how long do you guys stay at that like is that where you go the whole week or is that a weekend thing or i i honestly am not familiar with flight test or flight fest or any of that kind of stuff because we just have never i mean we've we've never done anything with foam so yeah yeah

[00:57:48] Yeah so last year we drove up on thursday i had to get up and go to matt's place and then we drove up on thursday and then it was thursday evening shifting into night as we were there and getting our tents up and all so thursday was wasted pretty much and then sunday about mid-morning midday we had to be packed up and on the road because of the drive yeah we both had work the next day oh that's

[00:58:15] So basically so you were flying what friday and saturday then friday and saturday and even

[00:58:25] Then i didn't do a ton of flying because i cracked my corsair and and it was raining it made

[00:58:33] Hard to kind of rebuild things yeah there's a lot of hopefully this year's better yeah is this a it's the way of it you you just know that oh well i guess we're going to be spending time and hanging

[00:58:44] Out and meeting people yeah true yeah joe is this a is this a foam electric only kind of an event

[00:58:51] It is an electric only event right yeah so you you can bring foam you can well you can bring your sped but yeah you could bring some sort of like i think they were selling some plastic guys there last year or some more fiberglass based guys as long as it's electric so arguably ron could i told ron he could bring one of his out there yeah just know that that any given time

[00:59:18] There could be as many as a hundred other planes sweet which by the way if you haven't seen the videos of it watch it it is just a marvel to see and it's amazing how bats are nuts it's as much as you want to hit people because that's the point of it for half the time you can't hit it hard yes it's really hard there's hundreds of planes in there and you still can't it's easier to do it on accident yeah yeah for sure yeah whenever you think hey there's no way i'm gonna hit that guy

[00:59:51] That's that's when you go crap you're like oh yeah well in in in fairness why don't we alternate back and forth between the two shows yeah ron what's what's your number oh yeah that's

[01:00:06] Well i have 30 ready to go okay in process which is me working on stuff i've i'm at 15 and i'm at seven arfs and kits so that's my number okay and those range all the way from umx like the small ultra micro horizon hobby airplanes all the way up to 170 cc size yak with 126 inch wink band nice yeah let that sink in that last one i imagine that yak flies like a

[01:00:39] Dream and if i recall right it's one inch bigger than yours tom oh i don't have anything

[01:00:44] Near that big no yeah tom actually what's what's your biggest airplane tom the biggest one i have is that that 50 cc sbock and what is that maybe 82 inches oh 80 it might think 80 and 89ers i

[01:00:58] Don't think they're quite 90 for 50 and that's yeah that's well i guess that glider i have that glider it's pretty big is that on your list by the way because you always forget about that glider i don't think it is yeah i'm actually trying to find my list i thought i thought yeah so that's my number then while tom is looking for his list because we came so ill prepared matt what's your what's your

[01:01:23] Number okay okay so i did a quick count today and i would say i've got about 40 that

[01:01:35] If i move the power pod over with the receiver and hook it up i should be able to fly them nice yeah that's ish now now some i'll admit they've been there for like two years and they may be in more of a questionable they may have been left in a state of i'll do that next time oh we all have things like that so i i can't fault you on that one yeah no and so that's where i think more of

[01:02:06] Them are left than i expect and i i know for a fact i've got a solid 10 that i can go oh i want to fly that and just make sure that the power button i try to make all of mine swappable so that way i can basically have maybe four or five power pods which is basically the motor setup with the sc and the battery and then in the sc just and then i move that and i've got if i'm smart i labeled all of my servo ends so i know which slot they go into and i just plug it in and go okay

[01:02:37] It's the tiger cat okay let me find the tiger cat in my model selection and then i should be theoretically the question is matt were you smart no most of the time i'm not okay smart i just wanted the i want you to go on record i'm smart about certain things those that's not one of them so let our listeners maybe we can all learn from that and go go to your models and if you don't have a label on your servo leads put them on there on there if you ever have to pull out your

[01:03:08] Receiver for any reason you can at least get it back to working with another receiver later well and for us

[01:03:13] Like when when we take models and stuff to the field we take wings apart we there's a lot of disassembly that comes with ours yeah so you really need to label everything that you have to unplug from the receiver or else yeah it's it's a lot harder to get it put back together if you don't

[01:03:32] Know what goes where and i don't know if you guys have noticed if this was something recent that spectrum has done but like i don't think they fly spectrum what's the spectrum yeah i can't afford i'm just kidding i know it's okay anyway so so for anybody who's listening that might be flying with spectrum equipment like does they change their channel port assignments recently

[01:03:57] On their receivers i don't know they've been messing around with it a lot lately yeah because they're proprietary and they want to keep their intellectual property and they're saying this is mine and people keep copying it so they make it harder and harder for everybody it seems so i know a lot of pilots have been griping about spectrum and the way they've been reconfiguring to keep their product safe ah

[01:04:22] Okay yeah i just want something that works and that's that's like i think honestly the only reason i'm with spectrum i i know you guys fly like is it radio master is that one of the ones you have

[01:04:38] Yeah yeah master turnagy jumper yeah i've got the jumper t16 he's got the radio master version i also i started out with radio link because it has a two and a half mile link and the receivers are stupid small like the lemon rc and they're 15 bucks or 12 bucks they're nothing for a six channel which is pretty much all i needed and i was like and it was 115 price point at the time which was half of what spectrum wanted for everything they had yeah and i was like oh i can't

[01:05:13] Do that and at the time i couldn't afford it yeah so i went with in between now nobody else uses it at all ever so i'm kind of on my own with it and i'm like but their brand is the pixhawk which is incredibly reputable everybody loves it it's like oh the pixhawk is top top-notch stuff there yeah but their receiver and transmitter people it's fully functional it's to me it's as functional as the radio master not maybe not as versatile and that i can't do multiple protocols but as far as

[01:05:44] What you can do in it it's as good as any other radio i found yeah and that's i think that's where we

[01:05:51] Well at least where i come off as to where i just want simple yeah i want simple i want it to work and i want everything to work together and i think that's why the first airplane i bought had spectrum in it and i think that's kind of why i stuck with that because you just as you as you move up you get better and better and better until you end up wherever you are at this point because the first time what are you what are you laughing out there oh i'm laughing because

[01:06:19] I've been in it for such a long time i've had to i've had to start over three times okay so i started with with the the old am 72 megahertz radios and then i made the jump to fm synthesized 72 megahertz radios and then i made the jump to spectrum yeah with the dss or the

[01:06:42] Spread spectrum technology just to paint a picture for you guys right now he's sitting in his rocking chair with with a little cat on his on his lap and and he's all covered up so i am this three of those facts are true three i don't have a cat now you're not in a rocking chair either i could make

[01:06:59] Well as i understand it you're living in alaska or at least might as well be in the basement it's

[01:07:07] Friggin cold here yeah i told him the other day we were supposed to record and we had to we postponed it for a day and it's a good thing because we had turned the air on like normal and i forgot to close the vents down here and i came down it was like 55 yeah i would have flipped it it was 92 degrees outside and like 55 in the basement here it was too cold for me yeah so

[01:07:29] And if it's too cold for ron then like it's icicles over here sitting in this chair for me

[01:07:37] Okay so that was 40 for like this the quickly operational planes and then there's like another 25 that are in various states of maybe i got inspired and got about to the 80 mark maybe it just needs electronics or maybe it's something that i flew and got damaged and it it could fly again if i spend the 20 30 minute to one hour quality time with it to suss out what happened and kind of redo something and so i've got another 20 25 of those i also have maybe six or

[01:08:14] Seven flight test kits that are still in the plastic haven't been opened and i've got just as many i've have four commercial purchases that are almost arfs the the piranha the asw five that little super jet the little okay now because i'm thinking of it i can't think of it it's a little german edf little flying wing kind of deal and i'm trying to think of the one other one i have something else that i i purchased it's kind of oh a vapor

[01:08:55] Oh you like what do you mean vapor like what are those things called the umx vapors

[01:09:01] It's every time yeah oh okay or e-flight yeah and that's part of why i bought the jumper because i'm like oh well that's spectrum and this is something else and i've got a totally different thing over here like i'd like to be able to run these little and then minimum rc has this star voyager thing which comes with one of those little all-in-one boards kind of deal which i think runs a dsmx

[01:09:25] Protocol yeah it just has everything like servos and everything built onto it you mean

[01:09:30] Yeah exactly i think this one actually had ports out to the itty-bitty servos like the 2.7 gram servos yeah the linear servo it's tiny but it's fun yeah yeah it's but it's fun it's just throw it in the air and it kind of hovers right everybody's like are you worried about hitting a car like it weighs nothing like if it it'll do more damage to anything other than i promise you your car will

[01:09:52] Is perfectly safe so flying in places you shouldn't be flying it sounds like we're talking to reggie

[01:09:58] Yeah just get ready to say no that's that's washington if i could tell you the number of times i've said matthew quit flying in your neighborhood that's because he comes over and

[01:10:11] We only have time to to like look at a plane not go out and fly it proper you fly it down the road right and then i bring it back and i land it it's now what size of the planes very tiny right that's true joe i feel your pain buddy i mean tiny

[01:10:30] Enough but if you flew it into my car i know we'd be having worse that's fine anyway so that aside and

[01:10:39] Then i've got the seven six or seven balsa kits i got two gillows i've got one lanes planes the cuda which i couldn't resist i know i need i need a little bit more experience flying to be able to fly that the way it's supposed to be flown which is fast and angry i don't know what else oh i've got a prendle d a balsa kit for that that's pretty advanced i've got the marabu i've got plans

[01:11:09] For it and i've got all the balsa for it so i'm going to do that from scratch and then i've got a turbinator and it's like a trainer 40 or something like that it's like a low wing trainer

[01:11:19] Plane that's where i would start from the olden days that's the one i would i would yeah next

[01:11:25] That and the turbinator i was told were the the go-to planes like they're if you have an adf yeah electric edf like which i do i see about the turbinator you'll be happy or if you you should

[01:11:38] Or build a low wing trainer yeah yeah the trainer i think is a good one to get into flying with balsa just because it'll it'll give you a good like trainers are usually pretty easy to build yeah they fly i mean well other people have figured out the problems and have designed them out of it so it's going to be a good flying airplane and you're not going to be out too much time or effort in building one of those i don't think okay of those planes i would have

[01:12:10] To say 35 of them that's the s3 viking is the molded model i was thinking okay i would have to say about 30 of those are designs i put together either based on things i saw and wanted to make a dollar tree foam or was inspired by a different challenge or another and they probably have a 50 success rate in getting to a flying a good flying model aha okay and i say that because it there's a much user and half of these were done when i started i couldn't fly for squat yeah well 50 still a good

[01:12:46] Number i mean like for building something on a foam and just trying to see how it's going to work and

[01:12:50] Fly and stuff i mean that i think that's pretty respectable and these are these are planes nobody's flown yeah i mean like somebody would somebody made a sam 7 right sigma it's an old world war ii kind of concept model plane it looks like basically a flying wing with a big mustang front but it has no tail so it's a tailless no rudder just it's a mess right and nope there's a guy who flew it he made a fake rudder out of plastic and he said it was a bear to get balanced and flowing flying

[01:13:23] He's got a video or two and he says good luck so i built one of those a flying submarine which nobody's built it's an it's a it's literally a napkin sketch and the k-lanin k-12 which was reported to have flown pretty well but there's a lot of weird complex stuff going on with the wing and the hanging elevator and aileron surfaces they're they're reverse profile wings so the they have a the clark y but upside down for the control surfaces and they have push out rudders so you

[01:13:58] Know they they're drag rudders on the wingtips interesting and it's no no tail so it those are like some of the first three i tackled i'm like easy to fly i mean no reason easy just to be fun what am i it's great what i mean like i mean if you look at the list when you go down look at the list like these are all like concept planes that nobody has any idea for the fly and i was just curious to see one can i make it look like it's supposed to and two can i can i actually get this thing to fly and i usually get about 50 of the way which is basically get it to look the way it's

[01:14:33] Supposed to and i get it to the point where it's really close to being able to fly if only i knew more

[01:14:40] And you'll sort of or you'll circle back to that sometime soon oh they're still the nice thing is though if you're talking about 35 of those airplanes you're at less than 50 bucks yeah that's it no it's a little bit more than that oh is it is it more than one okay so let's even say they're 30 i was gonna say even if it's four per you're not out a lot of money on that so that's pretty awesome no

[01:15:01] No i'm not out a lot of money but i mean i have a foamy bird of time that's i think eight

[01:15:06] Or ten sheets of foam board that's i'm sorry it's a full scale 12 yeah that's amazing to me because i i'm i'm doing the math in my head that's let's say 12 bucks worth of phone or 12 and that's like three pieces of four inch by eighth inch by 36 inch balsa yeah so i mean that there's just that much difference in and what you guys actually get to build with yeah so i can understand why you build so much more than we do yeah well matthew does anyway well the fact that it's

[01:15:36] Cheaper and they can do it quicker too yeah they can they can write like i tested a prendle d

[01:15:42] Concept the the nasa prendle d model which is a concept plane that they had and i tried to make a replica and i did and i i was trying to fly it and i literally flew it on the worst moment possible and it flew back on me and cracked into the ground and cracked in half and i was like so eventually i kind of was talking to one of the he was actually the pilot of the concept plane and i had an epiphany like an hour before he got we got on with him so the next day i went and and checked it out and

[01:16:13] It flies amazing awesome and i was able to fly come up with the idea and have a prototype

[01:16:19] Working within the week yeah that always feels good when something comes together and works the way it's

[01:16:24] Supposed to yeah it's awesome yeah all right so i'll stop so that's my number somewhere on 75.

[01:16:30] All right tom it's not it's not near as impressive as that i think my total numbers i'm just going to round and say it's 50 total now these are 95 of these are balsa planes so figure the investment that's about the same maybe maybe not quite the same as 75 total airplanes but anyway i've got about 24 of them that i can that i could take charge a battery and go fly right now six are in the various stages of build or repair and then i've got 16 roughly 16 in the queue

[01:17:10] That i'm going to build eventually someday

[01:17:15] That's got to feel nice so i'm a ron's called me out several times he's called me a hoarder which really hurt my feelings but anyway it's a good hoarding i said that before like that's supposed to be a compliment but i i figured some someday i'm gonna retire like hopefully someday in the next 10 years or less i'm gonna retire and then i don't want to be bored right and i love airplanes so it's not that i've been stockpiling but when i find a a decent deal on a on

[01:17:45] A kit that maybe i that i had way back in the day or or a kit that interests me or whatever i pick it up and i i stash it in the basement so yeah i've got i've got a small stash of that 16

[01:17:58] If you think 16 is a small stash but if you're picking them up at good deals it's not a it's not hoarding as much as investing for the future well that's that's the way i offload them

[01:18:11] Yeah joe that's the way i look at it i mean like i said i don't want to be bored in my retirement and i love to build i love to build i love to tinker i've always been a tactile learner right so flying around on a simulator in retirement is not something i want to do i want to build and and tinker so i have i have things in the queue to to satisfy that that itch when i retire and they're not getting cheaper no and that's that's the other thing is like even if i decided not to

[01:18:42] Build these and they're in my estate when i die the wife if she coming to me if she wants to sell them i've instructed her on how to find the correct pricing for these things and she will

[01:18:55] Price them accordingly how did you i'm now hold on i'm curious on that one how did what did you tell her

[01:19:01] Well i i showed her how i find the prices oh okay so that's what i told well that's timeless so that's

[01:19:07] Good because things will change when that time comes to push up some daisies on on your end and get rid of your plane yeah we took a turn to the weirdest but that's okay so yeah man let's all

[01:19:21] Tom i hope you have many a year of happy flying left ahead of you but i appreciate that no i think you want me to die so you can get on my like gangbusters that's what it sounded like no ron's over here just trying to get a hold of your estate and shove you out you don't have a i

[01:19:37] I truly want to bounce from you and tom listening to what some people tell me when they go to estate sales you with a 16 box queue is you are in great shape yeah yeah i i promise you compared to the things i've heard they're like oh this guy had like 50 untouched right completely sealed boxes yeah

[01:19:59] Let alone the ones he opened up and 16 that's depending on who you talk to that's not a huge number but i've passed up a lot of airplanes that i could have bought too that i didn't because either they didn't interest me i mean i don't buy them just to buy them yeah like i buy them you're discerning yeah i buy them either because i like that one well because i like that one i mean i like it enough to want to build it someday not to try to save this and then try to turn a profit and flip it in the next week yeah that's not what i

[01:20:31] Do yeah so you're a hoarder a collector and i'm into biplanes i mean a fair amount of those 16 are biplanes actually yeah such a i don't know yeah anyway well they're pretty it's twice the wing for

[01:20:45] The book exactly see but joe gets it but there's so more i mean there's just that much more to deal with you got to do twice as much to install it you guys you got to keep two or two wings for a guy

[01:20:57] Like me that makes me twice as happy well that's all i mean yeah i was gonna say when it's when

[01:21:02] Hooking up each wing and each wire each connection brings him happiness that's way more happiness yeah

[01:21:10] I mean he sounds all innocent and happy about doing stuff on the podcast but i've been there when he's got to hook stuff up and things aren't quite going right and the motor's not running right and

[01:21:21] That's true yeah i mean braggle fraggle sounds like times a man after my listen i'm not gonna

[01:21:27] I'm not gonna say that it's all sunshine and roses i mean there are there are days that yeah that i just want to take that trash can telemaster and put it right back in the trash can

[01:21:40] How many motors did y'all go through on that thing the one we finally settled on was number four number four yeah so and we went gas so i'm happy on that one yeah yeah that's what i wanted to end up it runs and flies great now so much dedication yeah we'll see we're tenacious we are that's we're not smart enough to give up impresses yeah we're not smart enough to know when to give up so

[01:22:06] We just keep pushing yeah and that's okay yeah yeah so anyway yeah so what's next you guys have

[01:22:14] A history segment you usually do right so history when we we initially talked about doing this crossover episode well a long time ago but as it became more of a thing i said well we do a flight history segment do you mind if we do it you're like yeah that's fine as long as we get picked a point yeah you didn't tell me that part yeah they got they got to pick the plane i don't think

[01:22:41] I said it so then are they doing this one because they should know more about this plane after the research they must have done to get to the model they're doing well you just gave it away yeah well

[01:22:52] To our listeners anyway no you guys do a lot of models we gave it away to us it was going to be

[01:22:57] Surprise even though we told you what to do it on hey rod and tom i'm doing the ford tri-motor today that's a great idea you are so smart anything about that airplane you guys talked about it a

[01:23:13] Lot and i wanted to know more about the history i'm so glad that joe has gone and saved our butts with

[01:23:19] That me too joe what do you got buddy yeah we're gonna see how much i got the ford tri-motor called the tri-motor but its nickname is the tin goose now why why he was given that name i don't know but first flight was in june of 1926 it was manufactured by stout metal airplane division at the time then of the ford motor company i say at the time because the stout metal airplane company was bought out by ford but years before william bushnell stout

[01:24:02] I believe is who started the company he sent out a letter to a number of investors or a number of leading manufacturers asking them to invest in i guess his company what would become a stout metal the stout metal company asking them for a thousand dollar investment and with that letter made the statement for your one thousand dollars you will get one definite promise you will never get

[01:24:33] Your money back but as i understand it was because the he knew look you're never going to get your money back from this investment but we're going to do some really cool things and you're going to be a part of that and so they went on to to make up some designs and then came along with what would eventually become the ford tri-motor the the tri-motor is an all-metal construction the exterior skin is corrugated aluminum so it's very lightweight that corrugation gives it a lot of

[01:25:07] Strength that said as you guys go to do yours know that the corrugation causes a lot of increased drag so you're going to have a reduction in performance from what you'd necessarily expect

[01:25:22] I've got a question before you if you don't want me pausing here what direction is the corrugation going from the back yeah it's running with the air with the airstream yeah so so it it's like a train car

[01:25:34] Yeah yes got it yeah okay go ahead yeah but but so it's definitely better than if it was going

[01:25:41] Across there's some turbulence for you no actually what it'd be like a kmf thing where there'd be like air pockets to kind of essentially create the air for it yeah okay i'd be curious to see that in

[01:25:56] Smoke smoke tunnel well you guys do it and let us know how it turns out yeah okay

[01:26:02] Challenge like that you watch it careful now now i do still have some of that old sign material you gave me when we first got started you remember i mean i could peel one layer off of that and might be able to do something with it that's not the same we'll we'll get a crinkler it'll be great okay we'll 3d print a crinkling thing you got the current you got the 3d printer that's it go ahead yeah so even though it's not perpendicular to the to the airflow it's that much more surface

[01:26:34] Area so added strength but reduced performance an interesting bit about the design of the wings and the fuselage they followed very closely the junkers designs yes the ju52 yeah i don't have that one in the list that i was looking at but the j.i the junkers f14 junkers k16 and junkers g24 were the ones that were mentioned in what i was reading okay junkers ended up suing ford

[01:27:09] Company this was after ford bought the stout metal company and became stout metal airplane division junkers sued ford when ford attempted to export the trimotor to europe and won the case due to how closely the trimotor followed junker designs and ford actually tried to counter sue in the 1930 1930s in prog but also lost that case so let's see designed primarily for passenger

[01:27:48] Use it could carry 11 passengers and three crewmen and i didn't know this until i didn't see any any materials but i was watching a video on the trimotor a guy had it in his i guess personal collection museum there's a there's a toilet in the back of the plane oh i did not know that see yeah yep so this became sort of the first real commercial person person yeah yeah person

[01:28:23] Yeah airline there we go matt's laughing that i can't find the word i guess happens to me all the

[01:28:30] Time i'm laughing it it's if you're gonna lighten the load somewhere at the tail of the plane

[01:28:37] Yeah but you're carrying the load back there first and then you i know look the sensibility of it

[01:28:45] Doesn't really carry through but i'm just saying my mind right there i'll be honest as as i have all right go ahead sorry that's a really neat little fact is that one of the first ones to have

[01:28:57] A bathroom in the plane i'm not sure but i would have to assume that it is largely because this was the first of its type to be used in this manner i'm not sure that there were a bunch of like too many other airline type planes and i know that this sort of set the tone for future airline yeah future airline planes so no i don't imagine any others had a toilet in the back up to this point

[01:29:28] Okay so it was a pioneer potentially yeah it it would see it would sit 11 passengers it utilized some of the the sort of the tri-motor has a very thick cord and so they use that aspect to actually make in the wing baggage storage for passengers and that's where some of the luggage would go

[01:29:53] Is inside okay good place for it smart too because it doesn't change your cg yeah that's what i was

[01:29:59] Thinking right store all the bags right on the yeah right that's right cg that's awesome honestly that

[01:30:05] That thick hershey bar thing reminds me of the taylor aero car that thing's just a monster of a

[01:30:11] The aspect for issues the tri-motor is just so ugly it's beautiful i mean that's i don't

[01:30:18] Think it's ugly at all really like i think it's beautiful like i there's nothing in my opinion there's nothing ugly about it i think the the ju fit the the junkers or yunkers that ford may or may not have may or may not have copied from was actually a low wing and actually i think that airplane is ugly yeah but the tri-motor having the having the the wing up high on the shoulder

[01:30:44] Like that i think it's beautiful i like i said i like the airplane a lot i think it's beautiful ugly but i think it's so beautiful well maybe lumbersome does lumbersome sound better and just like it's

[01:30:55] That's a that's a better yeah i just i don't know i think it's gorgeous it kind of looks like like a like a balding man with a furrowing brow maybe that's a determined look but balding looks like a furrowed brow like he's looking in the mirror or a determined look like i'm getting

[01:31:15] There wow i can do this i can well you yeah you can't see the picture that matthew shared me but

[01:31:21] Now that i'm looking at it yes sorry it's look it's got great cockpit visibility because it's got a glass ceiling over where the cockpit is and it's got the thin little we'll call eye eye slits what i mean yeah no i know what you're talking about because

[01:31:38] The the glass comes out it's a an odd shaped cockpit glass yeah i can it's again there's there's a lot

[01:31:46] Of there's a lot of character that i could see where you'd fall in the plane which i'm looking at in certain parts of it i'm like now the junkers did they have the cowl around the the pistons some

[01:31:57] Of them and for the try those looked weird yeah so some of the versions not not to take away from joe's history because he's probably got he's probably got this but some of the later versions of the trimotor like the 580 and the ones that they put the the higher horsepower engines on they had cows around them and then and the j52 did sort of the same thing yeah right but cowlings were were new at the time people were you still had to cool these engines they were air cooled so wrapping a cowl around them wasn't wasn't an

[01:32:31] Efficient way to keep them cool that it took them quite a few years to develop the baffling and all that kind of stuff that you had to put inside the cows to take advantage of the reduced

[01:32:41] Aerodynamic drag that they gave you but you get the air moving where you wanted it yeah yeah

[01:32:46] But yeah yeah yeah just just putting a cowl around it isn't going to get the air moving per se right you have to do something some fun things with it but boy when you do it works yeah yeah but i mean

[01:32:57] It's just a it's just a beautiful airplane the engines hanging out there in the air you can see you can see all the cylinders and yeah i don't think there's anything unattractive

[01:33:06] About it ron okay i'm maybe i use the wrong word let's move on i think lumbersome sounds i think

[01:33:15] That's a good descriptor because it's it's like a heavy lifter of a plane it's got broad shoulders

[01:33:20] It'll get it done yeah it's not like a sleek beautiful type airplane that well you would consider like eye candy like a fighter well not even that but even like a like oh come on i mean fighters yeah they're very sleek very fast but i don't know nothing sexier than like a fox wolf

[01:33:39] 190 like that is a sleek those don't do anything for me like spitfire or a spitfire yeah spitfires are also gorgeous spitfire does it for me but but yeah i mean it's a different kind of airplane

[01:33:52] And it's a different kind of gorgeous okay it's a different kind of beautiful i got you you're right i i agree there we go sorry joe we cut you off no you're good this is how we do it in our show

[01:34:05] Sometimes definitely sometimes so no and raw tom you're perfectly fine to have gone over variance because i hadn't gotten the variance in my notes so so i hadn't typed all that up i've got a little more that i can go over and then i've kind of reached the end of notes i'd take there's there's a lot of information out there surprisingly it's a little hard to come by outside the wikipedia page

[01:34:32] But yeah this i was i yeah you were with about to interrupt me again i was gonna say

[01:34:42] I was just trying to help you get to where you were i see i see some of your notes and i was just saying it's okay that it's designed for the 11 passengers i got it thank you so it was designed

[01:34:55] For for that carry 11 passengers three crew but it could be easily adapted for hauling cargo i think it got used as a mail carrier plane at some point and i also know it was used in some of the armed forces as the name suggests i had three motors now i didn't see this in the wikipedia page i was watching that museum guy talk about it i think you're probably talking about kermit weeks

[01:35:23] Might have he did a full tour of it there's a couple others too is there a couple of those

[01:35:26] Yeah okay eaa actually does a they got a page on there might have on their website anyway sorry

[01:35:36] About that that's okay no no go ahead so even though it had three motors i thought it was interesting it could run just fine without the center motor but if one of the side motors went out though it was a lot more problematic yeah and i guess that has to do maybe with where the power position was positioned or how much rudder in input was necessary to overcome the the differential thrust right i don't know that was just something that was discussed the apparently

[01:36:11] It's really bad on the adverse y'all and that might be due to the corrugation i don't know or if it's just big control surfaces so as you guys go to to make y'alls just be aware you go to go into a turn adverse y'all is going to be a big problem with that one right on if it had a prandled wing it wouldn't have that problem yeah well this kind of predates prandle a little bit yeah no technically

[01:36:36] Yeah by about two years god really was prandled that old his design his his concept and the the four-page paper that he wrote all the findings up on was in i think either 1920 or 1931. okay it was early

[01:36:53] The a couple of little tidbits i got the the control the control mechanisms are largely outside the plane yes it's beautiful it is weird i love it but i but i dig it yeah yeah we're gonna try

[01:37:07] To replicate that on ours what what do you wait what do you mean do you do you mean that basically all the stick controls run to pulleys outside the plane yep there's raw say there's rocker arms outside

[01:37:18] The plane yep that's what those and then the wires run outside too if you're looking at that yeah if you look at that picture you sent me yeah you see that you below that you see that like t-shaped thing coming out you have a black oval yeah yeah well not the black oval but that t-shaped thing that's what's reaching it's got cables that run back and are engaged in control surfaces that's

[01:37:43] Crazy that's a bell crank yep yeah yeah so all the all the wires are on the outside of the airplane so when you're flying and you can actually see them working and moving yeah it's awesome it's pretty

[01:37:53] Wild mm-hmm and all the instruments on there and i think you guys know this but all the instruments in the cockpit are only reading the center motor that's exactly right rpm oil pressure oil temperature all that for the external motors you got to look out the windows at the motors at the actual motors

[01:38:11] On them yeah yeah they have all the gauges mounted on the pods outside so you have to have really

[01:38:16] Good vision to fly the ford track no doubt you think they would know now they the guy was saying

[01:38:24] It was a really good plane to fly gentle in his own right but apparently it was also a guy that was doing an acrobatic routine with him years ago can't imagine that but yeah and i wish i could remember the name of the organization but there is one that goes around and does flying tours eaa

[01:38:48] The experimental aircraft association has one it is actually going to be in springfield this weekend

[01:38:53] Yep well where are you why aren't you going there we are oh we're going we're gonna yeah we're gonna try to go out to the airport and at least get pictures of it and stuff yep yeah so last time

[01:39:05] Right well last time it came was about four or five years ago i remember exactly when it was yeah i went up they were giving rides and stuff and i went and flew in it with my wife and only kid at that time yeah and it made them sick so they don't want to do it again but here's okay so if you have a chance to go up in it when that plane comes around i don't remember how much it was it doesn't matter but there's one seat where you can pay extra to ride in the cockpit now when i went up on the flight with

[01:39:37] It i decided not to do it because i wanted to sit back with my family which the way that the seats are on that is it's a single seat on each side so there's an aisle in the middle and then a single seat on each side so you're not sitting next to anybody but anyway so you could pay extra to ride in the cockpit i wish i would have because the guy that did it didn't really say anything until he got out when we were all getting off he actually got to fly the airplane so how cool would that have been it was like an extra 50 bucks is all yeah so oh yeah yeah that's that that would have been sweet

[01:40:10] Yeah that would have been sweet but that's so that's one of the reasons by the way that like the tri-motor has a special place in my heart and i know tom likes it too but i've growing up i was a ford guy like i don't know why i don't know why that's kind people pick those two don't worry i know it's like i'm justifying myself right but anyway so i was a ford guy and so ford and airplanes is cool because it's ford it's ford and airplanes and then we actually went up to

[01:40:41] The the henry ford museum up in dearborn and they have one of these on display there too and that actually was like within a week of when i was flying out i think we went like up there a week beforehand and i knew i was gonna get to fly it on the next weekend when i was here in town so learning about it and then flying on it it just like that has stuck out to me and that's why we're building the model of it kind of to push ourselves on doing something big that we've never done before and see how much we

[01:41:10] Can screw this up well it's a i mean joe mentioned it in in his research it's a it's a docile easy to fly airplane yeah and in model form if we can build it light enough i feel like i feel like we're gonna have a real a real winner yeah because i think so too if we can get a light enough and we can make it look like as close as we can and keep the scale outline i

[01:41:40] Think i think it's gonna really really get a lot of attention yeah what i mean it's gonna sound awesome it's gonna sound great it's gonna look awesome we're gonna hopefully replicate the the corrugation as close as we can anyway and so yeah it's i think it's just gonna be a real

[01:41:56] Sweetheart someday well are those three motors the same size so are you asking me or joe i'm asking

[01:42:06] Anybody who can answer joe go ahead i i feel like yes but i could be wrong so you are correct

[01:42:16] On some versions they had three identical engines but on some of the later versions the center engine was a different spec than the than the two out on the wing okay more horsepower in the center so yes and no makes sense yeah no joe's joe's correct yeah some versions had had three

[01:42:34] Identical engines so a four cell running a higher pitch prop in the center two three cells on the outside there you go same diameter -huh -huh i see where you're going not that i'm thinking about building one or designing it i think you should think about building one i think we should do should i design it to be the same size as you guys are building i was just gonna say that you should do the same size we are because i've got those two motors that are the pancake ones that spin 15 inches right if those are about the right size to scale aren't they yeah i don't remember what size i think

[01:43:09] We like i think we the math we did worked out to where it was perfect for those ys120s which which

[01:43:15] Turns 15 to 16 inch props yeah right that's what i'm thinking so if i did the electric version and found a good equivalent for the center pod we i'm we might be in business quicker than oh yeah you definitely absolutely you have ready not quicker than you i'm i'm just thinking we may have like the the motor equipment oh and the actual like components to be able to actually start really putting it like if we start putting it together we start can start actually getting the motors in

[01:43:46] There like there's there's a couple stl files that make really great nine piston radial engine dummies yeah whatever yeah dummies and they they got the motor set so that you just mount it in there and it looks amazing that'd be cool yeah printing out three of those would not be it'd be worth the four days of printing or whatever yeah yeah that's what we'll

[01:44:12] End up doing too is kind of making some dummy radials to go on it but yeah you should build one too i think that'd be fun it would be fun you'll be done before we are oh for sure oh it's so nice i'm just kidding actually that might maybe that'll speed us along i don't know what's your wingspan so i can get it one inch 12 feet bigger yeah 140 actually i think it ends up being just over that

[01:44:33] Like 146 oh man yeah 46 is a little bit tall for a foam board build that's huge yeah so i fly at a 40 acre field and so this is not unreasonable for that field no no heavens no 40 acres would accommodate this

[01:44:52] Yeah easily no problem so well no faster than it flies either yeah it's a slow yeah it's not yeah

[01:44:58] It's not going to be a it's going to be like a lumbersome big telemaster i mean that's kind of how i'm likening it how it's going to fly that's how i envision it but it's going to sound awesome

[01:45:08] Okay awesomer than a telemaster yeah but better go for like 150 inches on the low end just be sure you make it man just make sure just make sure he doesn't make it bigger than us and bring it to under that's right 48 there you go yep that's right i like where you're going with that i'm just saying man i hear you yeah so that's the tri-motor and that's why

[01:45:30] Why we are trying to build one that was a great that was a great history lesson joe thank you yeah

[01:45:36] I wasn't done oh hey joe do you have any other yeah do you have any other tidbits that that we

[01:45:43] Need to talk about joe what else you got buddy you're good no we just we sidetracked so

[01:45:51] No there was there's one more thing i one more thing only because i found it interesting the braking system and then i'll i'll end the segment it it's a pull stick brake but it goes just like back to the left back to the right or back to any varying degrees and when you pull so where we might think accustomed to brakes in the rudders this brake was a big handle it was like gear shift like your manual drive and so it was really only good for taxing but they utilize a

[01:46:26] Dual master cylinder system at the bottom of the stick and so as you pulled it back into one direction it would engage one side of one master cylinder more than the other and that would that's what gave your differential braking on this i did not like a rocker to the the master cylinders and

[01:46:43] Depending on where the stick was the bottom of the stick it would pull either or right in different

[01:46:51] Amounts yeah proportional too and yeah right and so what was actually if if say you were the say you were sitting in the left-hand seat it was really easy to break say back into the left because i was pulling it back and towards you but if you were having a break and get to the right and you were in charge you'd you'd hand it off to the person that was sitting beside you say hey break for me in this direction because you couldn't pull you couldn't easily pull it away from you

[01:47:25] Breaking you'd have to hand it off to your co-pilot to break in that direction while you continue

[01:47:30] To do other things yeah that's really interesting i did not know that tom's face lit up it really did

[01:47:36] Yeah that's that that's fascinating i can see his wheels turning in his head like right now going how am i going to model that in the model

[01:47:44] Well then i'm glad i went ahead and got that last youtube video me too that's awesome yeah like in

[01:47:49] My head i'm trying to figure out the the linkage involved to get the to get the yoke to move in

[01:47:54] That direction that's freaking awesome i imagine it it's similar to like like of the flying wing mechanisms where it's a a elevator wait is that right elevon yeah where you have both controls so there's a general rocker and then there's also the the aileron left and right controls so if you're pulling back on the elevator the whole mechanism moves forward and backwards and yeah they can still go side to side so i mentioned something similar to that but for

[01:48:24] Breaking cylinders very cool i dig it well there we go so yes that's our project coming up and that

[01:48:32] Should also be yours it sounds like there he says really considering it so i like i'll have plans

[01:48:38] Next week all right 12 feet plus right hey by the way if you if you look at my page you'll see the 35 designs all of them have plans that i've made nice that's my build process i think it up i draw it up i print it and then i do the ball the beta build make tweaks then i release them for the alpha build and then i then i release them as a beta i just want people to build stuff and have fun well that's

[01:49:06] Part of the hobby that's really what it's about yeah yeah yeah flying guys you mentioned that that the your mission statement is to to keep people flying or or what was it exactly

[01:49:20] Let's just go back to the footage i said and we'll call it that it was so eloquently worded yeah helping you through the hurdles of rc aviation hobby

[01:49:35] Yeah and i feel like like our mission statement is it would be kind of similar only we have a mission statement okay well i mean if we had one oh it would be it would be similar because we want to we want people to get into the hobby and stay in the hobby because if they don't there would

[01:49:52] Be no hobby right yeah and i'm sick of everything closing down and not having tools made like we

[01:49:58] Used to have and all that kind of stuff hey speaking of tools did you want to talk about our tool of the

[01:50:03] Week that's right you guys requested that we bring back tool of the week we did can i request you put

[01:50:10] In the sound bit it's time for rc plane labs tool of the week we tried like it's very difficult

[01:50:20] So you mean we tried well okay so we we came up with one but it's very boring so don't like get excited or anything so here's the problem with tool of the week we thought that was something we could kind of bring in and talk about a lot of these different tools that we like to use and all that stuff apparently we don't use a lot of different tools come to find out come to find out yeah but a lot of them you can't get anymore so we don't want to talk like hey these are tools we have

[01:50:47] You can't get them ha ha ha and we don't want it to come off that yeah we didn't want it to come off

[01:50:53] Like that so it it seems like i've looked up some of the balsa tooling just because again i'm looking at like okay well i need and i've noticed that you can 3d print a good portion now i don't know if they're worth printing some of them are but i wonder how many of the tools that were from yesterday from yesteryear yeah have been basically people said okay we still need this we just nobody wants to make it anymore because it's well the quantity is not there to

[01:51:24] Make it worthwhile right right but we can 3d print one because if you're doing that kind of thing boy is that tool helpful yeah yeah and i'm wondering how many of those are out there in that method in which case you can still talk about it and just say hey because it's not something everybody needs all the time anymore because not as many people build balsa most of them just are fair statement this this tool you can print out on three universe yeah it's great true and that i mean that would be a

[01:51:49] Good way to look into it too but there's a lot of people that don't have 3d printers and that kind of stuff too which is unfortunate that brings in a whole nother hobby of of what a lot of us like right to make tools for another hobby and it's yeah but anyway so anyway so today's tool what's

[01:52:06] The tool this week so it's a tool that that every hobbyist has used at one point or another and probably

[01:52:13] Has ready access to right now whether it's foam balsa foam and balsa really like foam covered balsa

[01:52:25] What what about corrugated cardstock yeah there you go cardboard board with with balsa but the

[01:52:33] Si material what is that i i know what we call it in our industry but that's proprietary to us so i don't want to say it but you're talking about i know like the fluted type material that's it

[01:52:46] Yeah what's the plastic no it's bad the stuff that's really classic yeah there's a anyway yeah

[01:52:52] That's the one i'm thinking of yes you can use this tool on that also yeah give it away tom

[01:52:59] Well it's the exacto knife the exact so boring but yeah boring yes but i mean without it without that one tool man could you imagine how difficult this hobby would be you could not cut hardly anything without it i mean try to like what like what are the alternatives like a box knife well a razor blades or straight edge razor blade i mean they don't always call the old trusty sawzall or that yeah so right so without this tool i like i can't believe we've not yeah we actually have not done

[01:53:37] That before done that one before it's such such low-hanging fruit that we probably just didn't even

[01:53:43] Think about it but what it's a i think it's appropriate that this episode is when that when that tool made us like i agree thank you guys yeah i agree perfection well what so what's a feature

[01:53:56] That makes the exacto knife better than the other ones it cuts well so for starters i mean you can put

[01:54:02] You can replace the blade easily and cheaply blades are relatively inexpensive they're small enough to be useful for our hobby like they're not so large and cumbersome that they're difficult to use i mean the list goes on ron i mean yeah you can cut things with them they come in a form factor

[01:54:26] That is is good to get to details see there you go yeah the number 11 exacto blades that we i mean like i

[01:54:33] Buy them 120 at a time on amazon yeah buy them in bulk yeah and they're they're really cheap yeah

[01:54:38] Have you worked with any of the other shapes i have yeah somewhat like the number 10 blade the the scalpel blade and then they actually up for a long time in fact you might even stay still be able to get them from exacto but they actually made a serrated saw blade that fit in the number 11 handle awesome i've got one i mean perfect little thing for making like the the notches or the holes in the in the side of a fuselage for your switch perfect for that what i mean yeah so yeah i mean

[01:55:09] They they make a lot of different blades and i've used a majority of them and there's other companies

[01:55:16] Also that make sure that you can get to put in for hinge cutting yeah for slot cutting that's right that kind of stuff exactly when when i like i said it's the number 11 blade is what i buy in the hundred fold yes just because you go through them quickly i don't know how long they last like for cutting foam because i don't do a lot of that but i know like covering an airplane monocoat really tears them up two to four sheets of foam board yeah yeah okay the paper's yeah

[01:55:44] It's the same just okay and it's not like it it would still be a good knife to use generally for other things oh sure but it's just not sharp enough for what we need to use it for right

[01:55:55] And the handle like you can you can get the the the handle in lots of different flavors you can get aluminum ones you can get plastic ones and the ones i really like are the aluminum sour patch exactly yeah right the serrated well or not serrated but the knurled ones that that have for the grip those are my favorite did we really just spend like five minutes talking about an exacto knife who knew heck yeah who knew that they were so interesting nobody killed us

[01:56:25] By the way nobody actually thinks they're interesting all five of our listeners have now stopped listening

[01:56:33] Between the two between the two separate podcasts five thanks mom

[01:56:43] Oh we double our listenership now just because of his parents

[01:56:49] So well one of the things i notice is i've seen people who i'm like hey do you have a because i'm like hey let's build a plane together do you have an exacto set and they pull out this this like box oh the and i'm expecting them to just have the aluminum like stick yeah and they just show they have a blade net which is what we have but they pull out this whole set and there's like three different style handles different diameters yeah and there's a there's a myriad of like 20 different blades yeah with different curves and usually you buy them at like a dollar store and that's where

[01:57:21] They belong i agree but i was surprised when they pulled out this whole set i'm like

[01:57:26] What do you even use all those for yeah what what is that about i'm the same way like i have a couple of those they're in that little like minor and blue plastic cases that don't ever stay shut because they're just so cheaply molded but yeah it's like two or three different size handles they have the fat ones they have the skinny ones they're a little bit longer and stuff and yeah there's nothing as good in my opinion as just a single normal exacto blade on a normal exacto

[01:57:57] Handle i like the large handles because you can also i can also use those handles for my razor saw

[01:58:05] Blades they go in there and i can lock them down i can use that handle with those blades oh i don't have that like my razor also good for the chisel blades like if you're if you're carving out wood blocks the fatter handle is easier on your hand i can see that yeah so there you go but you should use a razor plane instead of a chisel well not if you're hollowing out the inside of a block oh that wouldn't work with a razor plane so yeah not at all so there you go all right here's an idea for your

[01:58:29] Next tool of the week do you have one of those three two one square blocks for machining yeah i use them one two three blocks yeah what i mean they're these kind of heavy perfectly square steel blocks

[01:58:41] That help keep things where they should be yeah i have yeah i've got a pair of those nice actually they're they're great because well they're they have three different dimensions right there's a there's a a long skinny side a short skinny side and then there's the big flat on either side and they're great for if you're building with balsa you can you can hold your parts square right there on the bowling table with those as they're as you're gluing them up yeah i use them all the

[01:59:13] Time that's that's what kind of i i was going to ask if you use that at all absolutely like which which tools are worth having when you start and which ones like really just don't just you only buy it if you really desperately need it because you can probably get away with it are we talking building kits then yeah yeah i guess i'm for if we're done with the exacto blade yeah

[01:59:37] I think we've belabored it yeah we're gonna skip we'll talk about tools quickly from here on we're

[01:59:42] Not going to talk about each one in depth yeah no no i just no i'm not expecting you what i'm just

[01:59:47] Saying yeah so basically an exacto a razor saw with a with a miter box probably yeah okay and

[01:59:55] Some various clamps i mean that's i mean that's really yeah and then a piece of foam like a nice building service just to build like xps kind of yeah like the well i use extruded yeah that's what i used to because t-pins expanded polystyrene yeah xps and then i just use the push pins i don't like the t-pins because they hurt my fingers so i get the it's a little bit more expensive but you use them over and over again so it doesn't matter the ones that have little plastic heads

[02:00:27] On them that are about a half inch tall or so by maybe a quarter inch wide yeah yeah i was wondering which pins you use yeah i have t-pins as a backup in case i don't have enough of the the red ones i

[02:00:38] Use both because sometimes you need the skinniness of a t-pin to fit in a tight tight spot or whatever

[02:00:43] Or twist it to kind of hold another piece down at the same time yeah exactly that too but okay

[02:00:48] But yeah i didn't know that they had a different thickness depending on which direction the pin like it was it's actually like a rectangular like a t-pin it'll lay flat i mean

[02:00:59] Think of it as folding a paper clip into a t and then making one end sharp yeah okay so if as you're holding it down like i said if you want to kind of span a gap or something you only get a quarter inch or so on each side maybe a little bit less and then you can actually kind of use that little bump to hold something else down if you needed to yeah yeah instead of like pinning through the part

[02:01:21] You can use the under surface of the t to hold the part down yeah plan almost as a clamp okay yeah

[02:01:27] Yeah i was wondering do you pin through the part and just say stick darn it like it's a bug it depends i mean yeah or do you stick or do you basically kind of align it with the pin sometimes use that the pin is stuck in there yeah to keep the alignment you'll find whatever works best

[02:01:45] For you is how you'll do it like i said there's sometimes i go through the part and sometimes i

[02:01:49] Don't yeah really really small or or thin balsa parts i generally don't pin through them yeah i'll pin next to it and use the head of the pin to hold the part so you don't split it you don't split it

[02:02:02] Yeah okay thin thick or medium ca and or aliphatic resin thin ca and medium ca that's really all you

[02:02:14] Need or if you're really patient and old school aliphatic resin yeah that's what he said i don't know if you heard him or not oh no i was talking i'm sorry i probably talked right over that was the

[02:02:25] Last thing he said oh okay yeah that i i just went ahead i wanted to try my hand at saying that word because it's it's like saying elephant yeah like a hobbit yeah well just it's such a fun wood glues

[02:02:38] That's the easiest yellow glue or whatever and epoxy if you didn't say that already yeah

[02:02:44] Epoxy i didn't but i five and well five and thirty probably i'd say so yeah five minute and thirty minutes is what we use so it's like if you're for my screws do i want to use loctite the blue bottle or

[02:02:57] Red ball i hope you're joking joe i hope you're joking because i'm about to go the fluid

[02:03:09] Is there a history here that i'm missing no i just hate red loctite with like a passion well i hate the

[02:03:15] Fact that the blue loctite comes in a red bottle yeah that's really confusing yeah i agree but does the

[02:03:21] Blue one come with the red container or wait no it's no they're both in the red container the

[02:03:28] Red loctite is permanent and like when i say permanent i mean like frustratingly permanent like not let me get out the get out the dremel with the cutoff wheel permanent the blue loctite is better yeah and if you use it in moderation it does what it says it'll do but i'm

[02:03:47] Not a huge fan of loctite period so yeah when i need it i use blue i've never used red i don't

[02:03:52] Even know red yeah i knew that i knew that was a touchy touchy soldier it worked yeah i only have

[02:04:00] The blue liquid one yeah because if if i had both i'd mess it up and yeah i want to take a quick trip

[02:04:08] Back to the the super glue and talking about the thin thick and all that stuff so if you're putting something together and you and you don't mind waiting for the glue to dry wood glue or your aliphatic resin the nice thing about that is it sands much easier oh man yes so okay if you if you're patient which sometimes i'm not depending on like where you're building and and if it's a joint that you're kind of concerned about yeah that you're going to actually see through like when you cover it wood glue works a lot better because you can sand it down a lot easier yeah yeah i think i heard you

[02:04:42] Say in a previous episode one of y'all's episodes that the aliphate not out the the ca gets into the the balsa and they kick it or you give it time to cure but it hardens harder than the balsa absolutely

[02:04:54] Yeah yep yes when you so when you sand it like if you're joining sheets together that joint where the two sheets are joined together that the glue that's in there will be harder than the surrounding balsa so that when you go to sand it and try to sand it smooth you'll be sanding the balsa away but the glue you'll have a hump there where the where the glue is yeah so you're almost

[02:05:18] Making corrugated sheets yeah almost yeah oh there's an idea no it's not an idea terrible idea anyway

[02:05:24] But anyway yeah that's why that's why our the little how-to i did that's why i join sheets end grain or i'm sorry edge edge grain together with with the halophatic resin because it does sand much better than than the ca yeah all right thank you yep do you tend to make

[02:05:46] When you make logos for it like let's say you cover your stuff in like monocode or whatever the technicode or technicolor dream code or whatever this stuff is called china code is what i like i mean

[02:05:58] That's that's not the actual name but it's so much cheaper and easier to use anyway go on sorry

[02:06:04] Either way shrink i've honestly i've used dollar tree cellophane and spray 77 the back of it yeah and done that it seems to work any plastic shrinks when it gets hot so yeah it is so so just the the window is a little bit different yeah anyway so looking at that kind of stuff when you're making decals for that stuff how do you tend to do that do you do you like put it on a mirror and like finely cut it or do you get like a vinyl sticker cutter thing like and just

[02:06:35] Get it that way or well how can you do that or how do we do that because how do you tend to do it because i look i one of the things i love to do is to get a little bit of like pizzazz yeah absolutely

[02:06:51] So i'm i'm big into tools so i have a vinyl cutter okay a lot of people don't so yeah you can absolutely cut it on a piece of glass or a mirror or something with with an exacto knife i don't do that because that's a lot of work i mean honestly i do that because i don't have a vinyl

[02:07:12] Cutter so just recently i had to put some iron crosses on a stick that i was recovering and ron printed them out on his large format printer brought them to me and then i used those as templates and then i taped the template to the back of the monoco and trimmed it out with the knife right on top of my sacrificial mat what are they called yeah like the cutting cutting mats yeah there you go so that's how i did it because i don't own a vinyl cutter and it was going on a nitro airplane and nitro and vinyl don't get along yeah you got to watch what you get for for that oh okay yeah

[02:07:48] But you don't have to worry about it yeah but if you're doing electric yeah vinyl is fine

[02:07:52] Vinyl is perfect and much much quicker and easier well i know for matthew and i two and a quarter hours in we're just hitting our good stride but

[02:08:06] Well until next time i am i'm wrong yeah and i'm tired so

[02:08:14] We're just going to cut it there okay

[02:08:18] Well real quick i wanted to say yeah and maybe i'll do this for both of us however you want to do it but i want to thank everybody for tuning in yeah and listening this episode has been i won't say a long time in the making but it has been a long time dreamed of especially between ron and i yeah going way way back so yeah i think you brought it up like a year and a half ago i mean it was when we were just first getting started yeah it's we weren't we both of

[02:08:49] Us were still pretty new to them yeah i think i brought it up like this might be an interesting but i was hesitant to bring it up so before we get too far ron i know that you have electric

[02:09:01] Motors probably too many i mean that's not really true you can't possibly have never but yeah is it possible that you could set one aside and build like a like a boxy plane maybe something with a a foamy that's not a profiler with us oh god would you would you be up for trying it and just seeing how it's different and it may not be better and you may never touch it again you are putting me on the spot to say yes i'm putting you on the spot to see if you'd be interested

[02:09:38] In making another thing that we do in the future together what i will not say no to that i will just just as i took your challenge with the tri-motor inadvertently you volunteered for that

[02:09:51] One by the way no no so honestly the thought of building with foam like that has is not anything that ever it doesn't get you excited but what plane do you get excited about well the the problem with that is the plane that i would like to to build like that is completely round and well that's way too much for me to get in the foam with a round fuselage but anyway no i'm a huge fan of yak 54s but now having said that there is there is an airplane that has gone between several of us here

[02:10:30] That is a foamy yak it's a square fuselage but that flies that flies really well but it's just not i mean like i don't know how to i will try there we go how's that yes i will try we will build one

[02:10:46] Together however you can pick the plan i've never built a yak well no i'm no good at 3d flying so i'm all about trying that with you and watching mine burning and crashing to the ground in a fun

[02:10:58] Hilarious way well here's the thing you you pick the airplane you send me the plans i can print them here i can do all that stuff no problem i've got all the electronics i would need yeah and we will

[02:11:10] I just want to i want to pick a plane you'd be interested in trying out as a foamy that's all okay we get it that is half the battle right like getting something you're going oh that's pretty interesting let me see how that goes well then anyway sure it sounds like a yak might be the

[02:11:28] Answer i'll find something for you we'll talk well yeah we'll talk later we'll figure it out that might be kind of interesting to kind of come to your side of the hobby and then one of these days you come to the dark side and build balsa the dark side is coming that's for sure good all right cool okay so

[02:11:44] Joe are you gonna take us out i'm sorry i was at least going to start it and then see if ron wanted to finish it but i wanted to follow up and say guys thank you for coming on with us letting us come on with you it's been a good time yeah and i'm sorry that my stuff's been having connection issues but it's been a wonderful conversation from what you've heard of it it has hasn't oh i've been able to hear it don't worry

[02:12:13] But i also want to thank listeners ours and yours who've tuned in hopefully they've enjoyed this conversation as much as we've obviously enjoyed having it and i think i want to forego the rest of my normal outro but ron tom y'all got a bit of an outro you want aviationrcnoob.com

[02:12:35] Rcplanelab.com good night sounds good i'm joe i'm ron i'm matt i'm tom good night good night good night y'all

[02:12:44] Good night