Ep 54: Radio Giveaway, Tri-Motor Project, and Listener Questions
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In this episode
Join us for the main discussion, practical takeaways, and stories from this episode of RC Plane Lab.
RC Plane Lab will be giving away a FlySky FS-I6 transmitter! Stay tuned for more info.
Since the Duellist project is behind them, in this episode of RC Plane Lab, Ron and Tom talk about their next airplane build, a giant scale Ford Tri-Motor. This will be a fun project to follow along, so be sure to check back for future updates.
The guys also respond to listener questions and comments.
Episode 54 Transcript
This transcript has been lightly edited for readability. Timestamps are retained.
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[0:00] Hello everyone and welcome to the RC Plane Lab podcast. I'm Ron and I'm Tom. Hey we're gonna give away a radio. That's exciting. It is exciting. Our first giveaway. Our first giveaway. It's gonna be kind of cool. So what is it, Tom? So it's a FlySky FS6i six-channel radio that I got on Amazon for the paltry sum of $48.72. That's actually a good deal. Well, on doing some of the research for our last episode on saving money in the hobby,
[0:40] I came across this radio and I couldn't not buy it. I mean, a six-channel radio with all these features, programming, EPA, exponential, all this kind of stuff that most modern six-channel computer radios have for less than $50, I had to buy it. So I'm going to thrash it. We're going to do a review of it and then we're going to give it away. So hopefully we'll be doing some more of these in the future. Yeah. I like giveaways. I think it's kind of fun. Yeah, I do too. And besides that,
[1:08] like I already have enough stuff at home. So if I can play with something for a little while and then pass it on, if it's something really cool to someone else to use, then so much the better. Yeah, I agree. Oh, and look forward to a video on our channel, a full on review of the radio unboxing and me thrashing with it in one of my airplanes. Maybe we'll get some video footage of that to put in the video as well. Yeah, I plan on really, really putting this thing to its paces.
[1:35] I think it's going to be fun. And I look forward to it. Hopefully we can do more of this kind of thing in the future. Hopefully. Yeah, I like giving things away. If you're watching us on youtube you can see our background is the ford tri-motor plans we are going to be using it's a monster it's a monster so tom picked out plans that were 78 inch wingspan and we're going to enlarge that by 150 percent
[2:00] and that's going to take us up to about 117 inchinch wingspan, give or take. It's going to be big. It's going to be huge. I shouldn't say huge. It's going to be big, but not, like, extremely, extremely huge. Well, I mean, it'll be the biggest airplane I've ever built. It will be. And to me, that's huge. Well, it is. It's a good size. It'll be fun. So I don't know if we're going to be able to stick with this but our
[2:26] tentative tri-motor goal completion date is going to be june 1st of 2022. now i know what some folks might be thinking now after like 18 months of them having to listen to us blather on and on and on about the fordimotor. I promise, moving forward, all of our updates will be meaningful and short. To the point. Should I not have said that? I don't know if you can do anything short. Meaningful and to the point. I do tend to talk a lot.
[2:59] So, yeah, we're not just going to waste your time talking about this every episode. It's just going to be one of those things when we get time to work on it, we're going to do it. There are some things that we need to do first before we can actually start on this in earnest. Right. And we're going to have to figure some stuff out before we actually do it, too. Yep. So, having said that, the first step is finished. We found the plans. Yep.
[3:21] So, I guess we can click the start button on the project. I mean, the clock is ticking. And I'm hoping we will get it done a lot sooner than 18 months. That would be nice. But that's going to be our drop dead date. Drop dead date? That's going to be our end date that we're going to stick to. we have a lot of work to do. We have a lot to figure out. So let's kind of walk through, I guess, a few things that we're gonna have to do on this. Okay. Since we changed the size.
[3:49] And drastically. Drastically changed the size. We're gonna need to try and stick with like the standard Woodstock sizing. Yep. Because of how much bigger we made it, obviously all of the cutouts and everything that it's designed for is not the correct size anymore. Right. So it won't work. That's kind of a byproduct of enlarging a plan is you take those standard sizes that the plan was drawn with and you're enlarging those too.
[4:17] And the size you end up with may or may not have accurately sized notches, for example, in the wing ribs for the spars. However, that's actually pretty easy to change since we're doing it on the laser cutter and we're designing the parts and going to be scanning them in and cutting them on the laser. We can fix that before we cut anything. Which is also something we need to work on before the project. Making the laser bigger. Making the laser bigger. Making the laser bigger.
[4:45] Yeah, that's the next actual project before we start on this. But I don't think that's going to be terrible. I would think I'd be able to have that done in a month or so. I think that's reasonable. We'll see how it goes. I just got to get on it. And now that we're done with the do lists, I'll have more time to work on other things. Yes.
[5:06] now that we're done with the duelists i'll have more time to work on other things yes so yeah since the plan started at 78 inches i don't think everything is going to scale correctly for what we need yeah yeah i think i think we're shooting for an overall span of somewhere in the vicinity of 120-ish inches something bigger yeah give or take we'll it we'll see what it ends up like we might
[5:26] of course one wants to go much bigger but we are limited by our engines and we'll talk about that later but yeah if we have the engines for it we're going to go bigger yes we are but i do 120 inch at least i don't want to go any smaller than that well and that's a nice round number 10 foot you can say i've got a 10-foot tri-mot. I don't, like I'm so excited to say that. I can't, can't wait. The other thing that's exciting about this is it's our first scale build.
[5:53] It really is. And I would call this a scratch build. I mean, we are going to build this from plans, but we are going to be designing the plans that we're going to be building from. So that puts this in kind of, in my opinion, a scratch build category. And I have never scratch built a scale project. So this would be a first for me too. Well, we're changing a lot around on the plans. Like really we're using the plans kind of as just a basis, not as a, like a finished kind
[6:23] of thing. Since it's going to be a scale build and we're kind of excited about a basis, not as a finished kind of thing. Since it's going to be a scale build and we're kind of excited about it, we're going to be putting a cockpit in it. We're going to be putting the cabin in. A fully furnished cabin. A fully furnished cabin, yeah. So we'll be 3D printing seats and whatever else is inside of the airplane. I remember when we flew in the one we flew in, I think they were like wall sconces
[6:48] that were on the walls and stuff when you walked in that kind of hung off the wall. I think it'd be neat to put those in and actually get them to light up. Oh, that would be cool. And speaking of lighting, of course, we're gonna want landing lights and the anti-collision lights and a beacon if they had one. So yeah, we're gonna we're gonna go all out on that yeah i think for something like that it's gonna be easiest to
[7:10] use like an arduino to control all the lights yeah but we might find something simpler or i don't know that's all you buddy you're the programmer that's something we're gonna have to figure out down the line like we're not there yet, so that's okay. We'll figure it out. The other thing I want that I know is going to make it more difficult, but I hope it's okay. Why do you look at me? Well, because you're the one that's going to have to figure out some of this stuff. Oh, okay.
[7:38] I'm listening. The tri-motor had, the external wires that actually control the surfaces. Control cables, yeah. I want those to actually work and control the surfaces okay like I think I'll give you a la runs that probably is gonna be difficult because we're gonna have to make a removable wing but I want it to look like we're actually controlling the surfaces with the pole cable or whatever the cable setup is actually I actually, I think that's going to be doable, honestly. Good.
[8:08] That's what I wanted to hear. It's going to be doable because you're going to figure it out. We will get it figured out. No, but I think, I mean, yeah, I think there will be ways to make that work the way you want it to and make it look good and still kind of stay within the scale-ish boundaries of the project. So yeah, I look forward to that kind of a challenge. That'll be a fun aspect of the build, I think.
[8:33] Yeah, we'll have to take some liberties with it, I think, to kind of make it fit what we need to do. I mean, we're not going to enter competitions or anything with this. It's just a neat build that we're going to do together. And I am super excited and and and we'll make it look as good as as good as we can for our limited skills that we have hey it's it's better than not having one right i agree so and i don't know very
[8:57] many 10 foot wingspan trimotors out there it's hard to find a tri-motor i mean that's i i love the airplanes and it's you just don't see them very often so you got to build one so i'm glad we found plans that are going to be suitable for us to work with what are we going to do for a pilot i just thought of that we're going to have to come up with a pilot and a co-pilot we are it should be us and maybe maybe some 3d print our heads on it i
[9:21] don't know how to do that but we might have to figure that out yeah you're gonna have to figure that out and then we'll have to have it to where our heads turn when the rudder turns again. Of course. I mean, that's easy. Of course. Well, yeah, you've already done that. So much to figure out, but I'm excited. I was thinking for the ailerons, though, because, I want the pull-pull cables. Yes. I think I would like to see about maybe putting a servo
[9:41] in the wing itself, like by each aileron, and setting that up on a pull-pull system? Yep, easy peasy. That's okay, cool. Then that's what we're gonna do on that. Oh yeah. See, that's not as bad. That was the one that actually really concerned me because I wanted to do the actual cables to the ailerons, but if we don't need to go to the actual ailerons, then that'll work just fine. Yeah, I think, yeah, we'll we'll i mean i can
[10:05] envision embedding a servo into the into that rib bay where you want the wires to come out and then yeah just hooking up a pull pull with a dual-sided control horn easy peasy nice yeah and maybe even 3d print the control horn how cool can we be finished yet like i want to see this thing fly like i okay so i think of like shots that we can get and the shot that i am most excited about is putting a camera
[10:32] inside the cabin yep seeing out the window like so it looks like it's sitting in a seat seeing out the window while we're flying it while seeing the interior view too oh that would be cool i don't know why that's the one i'm like super excited to see actually come to fruition i think we can make that happen let's let's get it going come on i'm ready yeah well you step at a time you mentioned that we
[10:54] were kind of limited on the engines that we're planning on using right and that's all on you you wanted to stick to four strokes for obvious reasons because they're awesome and they sound a little bit more scale than a gasoline two-stroke or a nitro two-stroke or heaven forbid electric electric i think would have been problematic in this size don't you think well not necessarily it could have been done why expensive though i mean electric motors in this size in that 120
[11:23] ish size range can be kind of pricey, right? The price would have gone up, but I don't think it would. I mean, it definitely would have been easier. Okay. Like, the simplicity of setting it up would be a lot easier than what you're doing. I'll give you that. But the cost, and if we went electric, then that would all fall kind of on you. I think the cost would have actually been cheaper to stick with electric. Yeah, but it wouldn't have sounded as good.
[11:48] Which is why I'm not fighting you on that. And this can be your airplane because I don't want to buy nitro anymore. Oh, so I get to feed it then. Okay. $7 for a three-minute flight. Probably be worth it. It's worth it. Yeah. Just to hear it. So I already had a couple of engine choices, that we could, we could go with. I have, an OS 91, four stroke, three of those bad boys would fly,
[12:11] a 25 to 30 pound airplane with power to spare, which is something that's important. We need power to spare. I also had a, a Sato 82 on hand, which, not quite the power of an OS 91, but it's lighter. It's lighter than an OS91. So the power to weight ratio and the ability to swing a big prop was kind of important. Also, we don't want to have this huge airplane with tiny little 10-inch props on it.
[12:39] And then I have a Thunder Tiger 91 four-stroke also, which kind of is out of the running because it's heavy. It's a heavy engine, and it doesn't produce as much power as the OS. Oh, I didn't realize that was a four-stroke. I thought that was a two-stroke. No, no, no. No, I didn't even consider two-strokes because we wanted that nice four-stroke sound. I agree. So, yeah, I'm looking. I've got one OS91. I'm going to be in the market for two more.
[13:05] looking i've got one os 91 i'm going to be in the market for two more and i did place an ad on rc groups for some used equipment which is the point we're going to talk about here in a little bit buying used equipment but i did run some numbers and the os i think is probably our best option for power to weight it's going to swing a big prop it's going to produce about 11 pounds plus of thrust each. So if we can get this thing built in under 30 pounds,
[13:28] these OS91s are going to be our, I think, going to be our best bet. Yeah, that'll give us a one-to-one weight ratio. And I already own one, so there we go. So we only need two more. We've got a head start on that. Have you ran it? It's been a while, but it has been ran. Okay. Yep, and it runs good. I'd like to see that on the test stand, actually. Okay, I might be able to make that happen. Cool. Maybe we'll make a short video of that, too. Yeah.
[13:50] I don't know if anybody, if you guys like watching engine run videos, let us know. I'll be happy to put some together because I like them, too. You've got like 74 engines you've got to try and get ran. I've got a few. Way too many, but that's okay. So how are we going to cover this thing? That I haven't thought that far ahead on yet but i want we've given it some thought but we're not a finalized thought really yeah so the ford tri motor the original ford tri motor was
[14:16] covered in a corrugated aluminum i think it was aluminum i'm i'm sure it was probably it was actually its nickname was the tin lizzies i've seen both the tin goose sure i've seen them both that's true what's that one say so tin goose there we go it says it right on the plans folks -huh so anyway we're gonna we're gonna try to replicate that corrugated finish somehow yeah we'll have to figure that out yeah that's gonna be a lot of a lot of trial and error i
[14:53] think we're probably gonna build a couple wings and build a couple wings and try and see what we can get them to do and and trash a couple wings well but i i'm okay with that like yeah i always build extra wings apparently so you build three for the do for your duelist three wings for the doula so if it doesn't take three to do this project if we do three for this one then we do three but like i can
[15:16] i can kind of envision seeing like a vacuum formed abs sheet that we can then apply to the like maybe the bear airframe if if we can get away with that, without incorporating twist into the wing. That's kind of the direction I kind of see us going. But yeah, we may have to experiment with some other projects. But I mean, it's got to have that corrugated finish. So I have to build a vacuform machine now. Yes. That's okay. Yes. That's okay.
[15:47] Yes. It's okay. We need one. I mean, you'll be able to use that for other projects too. Oh, absolutely. Like, I'm not shying away from it. Cows, canopies, wheel pants, I mean, all kinds of windows. We're going to need cabin windows for this thing, so. They're all flat in this one. Well. True. How are you going to mount them flush, though? What do you mean? We'll just, if they're going to run off the inside oh i saw the balsa yeah okay that's a lot easier that's
[16:12] true we'll figure it out though yeah but anyway yeah we're gonna have to try to simulate the the corrugated finish of the full-size one i think because that's a really a a distinguishing feature yeah well and i want it to be silver i mean i want it to have that silver look to it yeah and you can't get that with the regular like monocode or or the other stuff that we've used no i mean you could simulate
[16:37] it a few different ways with with tape and paint and building up layers of paint and then peeling the tape off. But it's just not the same as a real corrugated finish. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, so I think it's going to be a fun project. Yeah, I'm very excited. Actually, I'm ready to get started. I wish I had everything else finished that I have to do first. Yeah, me too. And I wasn't all that excited about this. I was, but it didn't
[17:05] actually like start to hit me until you sent me the plans and then i printed them and i saw them and i saw my new wallpaper yeah and i just fell in love with it like i mean seriously this is cool i'm i'm excited also and it's not even it's not even for me and i'm excited well it is kind of for you i mean well you're gonna be fine i don't think i'll fly this one what i don't know that's a lot of pressure on me oh heavens it's gonna be fine
[17:32] it will be we gotta build a light we do like your duelist unlike your duelist right so but yeah it's it's gonna be a fun project and i'm looking forward to getting started well i guess we've already started so i'm looking forward project, and I'm looking forward to getting started. Well, I guess we've already started, so I'm looking forward to making progress. I'm looking forward to cutting our first part. Yeah. You're going to do that just because, aren't you? I can't.
[17:54] Like, literally, this is too big. Well, there's some parts you could probably cut on the laser cutter. That could be. But definitely, like, the main spot. Nope. The main ribs. One of these days. The main ribs are too big to go on a laser cutter, so I've got to make main spot. Nope. The main ribs. One of these days. The main ribs are too big to go on a laser cutter. So I've got to make it bigger. Yeah. And it'll be okay. We'll get it. Yep. We'll get there. Soon. Cool.
[18:13] So what else do you want to talk about? So I thought I'd build on last week's episode. We talked about things you can do to save money in the hobby. And I wanted to touch on this last week, but we kind of ran long. So I'm going to go ahead and finish it off. Really long. Yeah, we did. And that's my fault, because I like to talk about, well, RC airplanes and stuff. You're in the right place. So I thought we would kind of finish that whole saving money in the hobby off by talking about
[18:44] buying used RC equipment. Have a lot of experience with that. And that makes sense since you just put your ad up on RC Groups and you're trying to buy used motors. Exactly. So, yeah. Which, by the way, if anybody wants a kit. Thanks. Yeah, look on RC Groups. Tom has, what, four or five of them on there? So, yeah, I've got eight airplanes, old airplane kits that, I'll be honest, I'm probably never going to get around. I'm not going to get around a building anytime soon.
[19:11] We'll leave it at that. So they are available for trade. So if you have an OS-91FS, not the FS-2, the FS, that's the silver rocker cover, not the black one. Yeah, hit me up if you're interested in any of those kits. Or even if you want to, do some trading for other stuff who knows i might have something you're interested in what's the matter with the ffs2 because that's not what i already have oh i want them to match oh so it's got to be that engine yeah which they made for
[19:39] many many years and there's a lot of them out there. Okay. But yeah, thanks for the plug on my ad. But yeah, we're talking about buying used RC equipment. And there's lots of places you can go to do that. eBay, RC groups, RC universe, flying giants, there's there's quite a few actually, forums out there online. And hopefully soon, we'll get back to normal without COVID and you can go to swap meets and things like that. Swap meets are my favorite thing. Like you can
[20:14] find so many good deals and so many different airplanes that you don't see anywhere else. It's true. Swap meets are awesome. Yeah. And what I like about swap meets is is you handle the transaction right there in person you can you can feel it you can smell it you can you can you can move it you can test it yeah things like that which that's and i really like the swap meets too i like going to
[20:38] them sometimes i just like going to them just to see what's out there with no intention of buying anything even though i always always end up buying something. Always come home with something. Yeah. Okay. So until swap meets start, how else can we buy stuff? So like I mentioned, there's online forums. I'm a big fan of RC Groups and RC Universe. I also buy stuff on eBay. And there are certain things when you're buying that you can do to protect yourself.
[21:04] And we'll talk a little bit about that. But those are some of the places you can go right now to buy used equipment. And also, if you're a member of the club, usually your club has meetings periodically, either once a month or maybe once every couple of months or something like that in the slow season. Sometimes talking to club members is a good way to kind of put feelers out. And if you're looking for something specifically, more eyes are always better when you're looking
[21:31] for something. Like in my case, we're looking for, OS 91 four strokes. So keep saying it, maybe somebody is going to have one. Exactly. So the more people that you have looking, the better. So your club meetings and things like that, when you're interacting with your club members, that's a good way to get stuff too. Especially if you're looking for something specifically. Well, if you have hobby shops too, a lot of times they sell some used stuff.
[21:55] So it's good to know what you're looking at. Yeah, it's not at all uncommon to find a used section, if you will, at most any hobby shop. used like section, if you will, at most any hobby shop. In fact, our favorite hobby shop has a huge selection of used equipment. Hundreds and hundreds of airplanes. Yeah. And we've bought quite a bit of used stuff from him at the hobby shop, which again- Haven't been bitten yet.
[22:19] No, not yet. I'm very happy with everything that I've purchased from Brian so far. But it also has to do with the fact that we know what we're looking at. Exactly. You can feel it. You can maybe see it in operation. If it's an engine, you can turn it over and things like that. Listen. Yep, exactly. So those are some of the ways and some of the places you can go to find used equipment. So how do you do it safely?
[22:48] go to find used equipment. So how do you do it safely? It's a very good question. PayPal is going to be one of the more common ways that people want money. So the one thing that I would suggest with PayPal, PayPal is awesome. That's how we all send money for a lot of things. They have friends and family. The nice thing about friends and family is you use it for friends and family only. Right. Because there's no legal recourse.
[23:11] there's no way to get your money back if the seller doesn't do what they're supposed to do. Right. There's no protection. Right. But there's also no extra fees. Right. So what I have done before is if somebody is wanting to sell something and they want friends and family, I will offer to pay the extra 3% because that's what the fees are for doing the normal PayPal. Offer to do that. That way you have some
[23:31] recourse for, if they don't send it, if it gets lost, if they don't hold up their end of the bargain. And then you can go through PayPal with that. If they will not do that, some people won't do it and they will only do friends and family. They're the ones that kind of scare me. And I understand because a lot of times people will also, if you're selling something and you can get the money for it, you can ship
[23:55] it out and the person that bought it off of you can say they didn't get it even if they did. So I understand people not wanting to do it other than friends and family. But there's just, you have to kind of know who you're dealing with, which sometimes is hard to do if it's online. Right. So if they won't do friends and family, I won't buy it from them. Yeah. That's just me. Yeah. And I think it's called goods and services. Yeah. I think you get two options when you pay with PayPal.
[24:21] And I'm the same way. I prefer not to use friends and family unless it's somebody that I already have established a rapport with, which good or bad, I already have a group of people that I kind of have a rapport with on RC groups and eBay and things like that. So if it's somebody I already trust, then yeah, I have no problem with friends and family just to
[24:43] save on the fees. But if it's somebody that I'm unfamiliar with or maybe they have a trader rating, which I'll talk about that in a second, that isn't really high or they don't have good reviews on their transactions, then I will always insist on goods and services. And I'll pay the extra 3% just for that peace of mind, knowing that PayPal is gonna cover me if things go awry. Now, having said that, I've never had to use PayPal's restoration services. Resolution, whatever.
[25:17] Resolution, thank you, that's it. Restoration, yeah. Yeah, I don't know, your carpet got wet or something. Yeah, I guess. But yeah, luckily I've never had to use that. I've always had a pretty good experience with RC Groups, eBay, RC Universe, all the places I trade and sell online. But I will always use that goods and services and pay that 3% fee for a transaction that may or may not, as comfortable as somebody that I'm used to dealing with. Yeah. And I mentioned trader ratings.
[25:49] Yeah, I've never heard of that before because I've never done anything on RC Groups. So RC Groups and RC Universe and even eBay, I think it's called something else with eBay. I think they're called their seller. eBay has seller ratings and feedback and that kind of stuff. Yep, their feedback rating. It's something that like when you have a transaction with somebody, and I'll use RC Groups as my most recent example. I bought an engine from a fellow modeler on RC Groups.
[26:14] You bought an engine? I can't imagine. I've bought several lately. And so when I received the engine and I looked it over and it was as the seller described, I went back to the page where I offered to buy the engine. And there's a link there that you can click to submit a trader rating. And the more positive of those that trader gets, the more comfortable people are going to be to trade with him or buy from him or what have you.
[26:45] So that trader rating is a really, really good tool you can use to sort of give you a warm fuzzy about that particular transaction. So, if it's a member that just joined yesterday and he has a trader rating of zero and the price of his item seems like it's too good to be true, it probably is. I mean, use some good common sense when you're shopping online. And usually, for the most part, people want to do the right thing.
[27:25] most part, people want to do the right thing. So for the most part, if you're just using a little common sense, look at those trader ratings and use those goods and services, if you're paying with PayPal anyway, online, and I think you'll be okay. Some things to look for if you can do your transaction in person, we'll talk about those next. Well, I think next is now. Well, how about we talk about radios first? Okay. So I'm not a huge fan of buying radios, used radios online
[27:54] because you can't turn it on. You can't verify that it's operational. You can't move the servos around with the sticks and things like that. So it has to be either a really good deal from a really trusted source with really good terms for me to buy a radio, a used radio or radio equipment for that matter, online.
[28:26] can do it in person like our friend brian at the hobby shop or a swap meet or friends at the club obviously if if they're uncomfortable turning the radio on in front of you you probably don't want to buy that radio yeah but if they can demonstrate that it works then so much the better that will make you feel better about that about that purchase yeah if they tell you the battery is dead go get batteries yeah or go get a charger or whatever it takes.
[28:45] Because, yeah, if you're buying something in person, you're very much better off to actually see it working. Yeah, and in my experience, five minutes on a wall charger that comes with most radios is enough to test the radio adequately. Just enough to turn it on. That's all you've got to do. Right, yep. So that's a couple of tips. See it in operation. If you're going to a swap meet, this is a little trick I like to do.
[29:08] And now I'll preface this by saying usually if I'm going to buy used radio equipment, it's going to be spectrum equipment. Yeah. So I'll take a spare spectrum receiver with me and maybe a four-cell nickel metal hydride pack so I can plug the receiver in and try to bind that radio to the receiver and see if it'll bind. Yeah, like a receiver pack. Yeah, exactly. One little thing you can do to kind of protect yourself from a bogus transaction. That's if you're buying it,
[29:36] in person. Obviously, hard to do that online, but… That's a good idea. And that's why swapmates are so nice because you actually get to see and feel and touch and play with the things you want to buy. Exactly. What about engines? Like, engines I would not necessarily buy used, first off, because I don't really need a lot of nitro engines. Well, that's true. But I don't really know what I'm looking for. Like, electric is easy.
[30:06] feel any kind of resistance or if it's not gritty or if you don't hear any like sandy stuff inside of it most most likely it's going to be fine yeah or it doesn't smell burnt yeah it doesn't smell burnt that's another thing you laughed when i said smell earlier but that is a i mean you can learn a lot from especially a nitro engine by smelling it i know it sounds crazy but but you can it does sound crazy if you've been doing it for
[30:25] a while nitro i'm talking about you can you can actually tell a lot by smelling a used engine so i'll talk about that so i don't know if i ever want to go with you to another swap meet and just have you like sit there and smell all these motors you're trying to buy that's just kind of weird it is weird i have to admit and it looks funny to see somebody sniffing a nitro motor. But what I'm sniffing for, caster has a certain odor when it's been really, really, really hot.
[31:07] synthetic oils that are in our fuels. So if I'm turning an engine over and I'm sniffing the exhaust, I'm trying to ascertain whether that engine has been hot or not. And you can tell, usually, because most folks, let's be honest, most folks who are going to sell a used nitro motor, they're going to pull it off their airplane. Maybe they'll put it in a Ziploc bag, maybe, and they'll take it to the swap
[31:25] meet they're not going to do a lot of cleaning and things like that more than likely so a lot of times if that engine has been hot it will still smell like it has been ran hot so other things you want to look for well hold on so if it's ran hot what does that matter okay hold on. So, if it's ran hot, what does that matter? Okay. Hold on. Sorry. One more question. Okay.
[31:55] If it's been ran hot, what does that matter? And can you tell in compression that it's been, like, is it going to lose compression if it overheats? Usually, yes. Okay. ran hot maybe once on accident really, really briefly, probably going to be okay. And it's probably going to run after that. So that smell will kind of dissipate. If an engine has been ran hot, like consistently and often, it's going to more than likely, it's going to have,
[32:18] if it's an ABC engine, it's going to have significantly lower compression. And if it's a ringed engine, it's probably going to have lower compression. And if it's a ringed engine, it's probably going to have lower compression. But with ringed engines, you have to be careful that sometimes when they're cold, they can also have lower compression than when they're warmed up because of expansion of metal
[32:36] parts and things like that, creating a seal. So the smell combined with the lack or presence of compression will give you a good indication of kind of the engine's overall health. Now, that's a two-stroke. A four-stroke is a little different animal, a little bit harder to tell because four-strokes, if it's low in compression, it doesn't necessarily mean that the sleeve is worn from the piston it could
[33:06] be a bad sealing valve which could be as simple as something as carbon buildup so with a four or out of adjustment even exactly could be out of adjustment maybe the valves are too tight so a four stroke it's a little bit more involved to get a really good read on the compression if the seller doesn't mind you dismantling his engine, you can pull a valve cover off and you can kind of check the lash of the
[33:32] valves. And if they're too tight, maybe he'll let you back off the valves to see if that valve will indeed seat and restore compression. Sometimes you can also throw a little bit of oil on top of the intake valve and then draw it through compression, pull that oil into the cylinder. And then if that bumps up the compression, then usually that's an indication of probably the valve is not fully seated. So there's some carbon buildup or it could be a bent valve.
[33:57] If it's a bent valve, you'll feel that when you're pulling the engine over. You'll feel that resistance when it's trying to actuate that valve. So there's a lot of things you can tell when you're buying a used engine in person, just by sniffing it and rolling it over through compression. And you can also test for bearings too. You'll feel a bad bearing. Kind of that same grittiness that you get with electric. Exactly. Yep. Yep. so those are some things to look
[34:25] for with when buying a used nitro engine gassers are a little bit more difficult to to determine the health because the electronic ignition they generally speaking don't quite make as much compression as a similar sized two-stroke or nitro motor so they're a little bit harder to tell. But something I would look for on a gas engine is the condition of the carburetor. Like if it's clean and it smells like fresh fuel, probably has been ran recently and probably runs
[34:58] fine. But unfortunately, the only way to test a gas or with electronic ignition is to run it, unfortunately. And you're probably not going to do that at a swap meet. Probably not, yeah. But sometimes, though, there's really not a lot that can go wrong with those. So if it looks like it's okay, if it's in good shape, a rebuild for the carburetor is cheap. Very inexpensive.
[35:22] Ignitions can get a little bit more expensive if that's a problem but it's not the end of the world either yeah and they do go bad as we as we evidenced on the trashcan telemaster project but i bought a quality ignition a ch ignition replacement for that and i think it was only what did i say it was 75 bucks i thought something in there yeah so i mean and hopefully knock on wood, it'll run like a top the next time we go to fly it. Which will be
[35:49] in the spring. Yeah, it's too cold. It's gotta be in the spring. We gotta get that done. Yes. Anyway, so what if you're gonna buy an airplane? What do you look for, like a full on airplane? Yeah, so that's like the most exciting part of going to a swap meet, I think, is buying a full airplane, a ready-to-fly, ready-to-go, already-finished airplane. Because you can usually get them cheap. That, and you don't have to build it, which, I mean, I enjoy.
[36:17] But sometimes you just want an airplane ready-to-go to go fly. I bought several, like, Balsa airplanes, like balsa airplanes ready to go electric of course of course for 50 to 60 bucks a piece at the swap meets yeah they're all they always i'm not sure why that is but they're always ridiculously cheap yeah like the super sports that i bought i think that was 60. and it flies awesome it did fly awesome i crashed that one and i had to buy another one because i liked it so much.
[36:47] And I crashed that one in the trees. Like, it was just an accident to where I didn't land in time, and where I was flying was a little bit more difficult to fly. And I had to get it down. Literally, I probably had 40 feet to where it had to touch down. If it was too early, I would have ran into trees. If it was too late, I would run into trees. And that's what i did i i overshot my runway and ran into trees and it just completely broke the the wing
[37:10] off but i replaced it and i paid more unfortunately for the for the new arf to put all the stuff in than i did for the whole thing beforehand so yeah but it's a good flying airplane and yeah a lot of fun i enjoyed it so speaking, I won't buy whole airplanes online just because it's ridiculous to ship a big airplane. I know there's options, people use Greyhound or, if it's a really big airplane,
[37:36] they'll build a crate and all that. I, myself, I prefer to avoid all of that. Sometimes you can find like on, in RC groups, for example, you can find sellers who are selling their stuff that aren't real far away. So maybe you can make a road trip to pick something like that up. A day trip is kind of fun. Yeah. But generally speaking, I stick to just go into the swap meets or Dynamic Balsa to get my full airplane, used airplane fix. But some things to look for.
[38:07] I mean, you could answer this as easily as I could. It's almost like putting your airplane away in the fall. You'd kind of look for the same things. Oh, yeah. You'd go over things. You'd make sure that the structure is okay. You want to look at the internal structure of it to make sure everything is good. There's no cracks. You don't want to see any broken bolts or anything like that. If there is, that's not even the end of the world. No, no.
[38:34] If it's an easy fix, yeah. If it's an easy fix, you can talk them down on price even more. Exactly. Like, I know you need to check motor mounts and all that stuff to make sure that they're still intact. And once again, if they're not, not the end of the world. But that kind of concerns me more than something on the side. Like hanger rash is not that big of a deal. Somebody grabbed it too tight and broke a piece of balsa. It happens. Easy fix.
[39:01] Motor mounts and stuff being broken are usually a sign of something else has happened to it. Yeah. Like maybe a rough landing. A rough landing, ran into something, dropped a little harder than I would be comfortable with. I always look at the landing gear blocks, too. Yeah. That's a common item to be, especially on some of these lightweight ARFs that we fly, the landing gear blocks get torn out pretty easily, it seems like. And the hard landings are common with a lot of things.
[39:29] And even if I see a torn out or a repaired landing gear block, that's, again, not the end of the world. No, it's not, but you need to know what you're getting into. Yeah, just verify that it's a good repair, and if it needs more repair, then there you go. Talk them down on it even more. Yeah, more material on talking them down on the price. Yeah, and just make sure it comes with everything it's supposed to come with. Oh, my gosh. I've got a story. I've got a story for you.
[39:54] So this has been a while ago. This may have actually been before you started flying, maybe. It's been a long time ago. Anyway, I went to a swap meet. It was a swap meet down in the Belleville area, which is not too far from where we live here. I've been to that one. It's a good swap meet. Yeah, you may have. It may have. Well, anyway, let me tell my story, and you can tell me if it rings a bell. So I went with several people. Might have been me. Yeah.
[40:27] I've been to this swap meet quite a few times, actually, so I'm not sure. And I've never gone there alone. Like, I always seem to go with people because it's fun. Yeah. Anyway, one of the individuals that was with me bought an airplane. Go figure. Yeah, at the swap meet. Got a good deal on it. Was excited about it. we paid a good price for it and, bought it fairly early. Like, we walked in and it was like one of the first
[40:59] things he saw and the first things he purchased. So he bought it, bundled it all up and took it out to the car and then, and then came back into the swap meet to do some more shopping. Got home, unloaded it. And about a week later, I believe I got a phone call from this individual said, you're never going to guess what I did. And of course I'm like, what are you talking about? He said, you remember the swap meet we went to? Remember that airplane I bought? I'm like, yeah, I'm tracking.
[41:26] He's like, did you pick up the wing tube for the wings? And I'm like, well, no. Why would I pick up the wing tube? You bought the airplane. So if you go to a swap meet and you buy an airplane, make sure you have the wing tube. Yeah. Because everything needs to be with the airplane. He had to, yeah, he then had to find some place to find a wing tube. And I'm sure it was an airplane that wasn't made anymore. So, just one of those
[41:55] inconveniences that a great deal became an okay deal,? Yeah. Because wing tubes are, it's harder to find the exact size you need so you want to make sure that you get that when you buy the plane yeah and there's metric and then there's standard there's carbon fiber there's aluminum so fiberglass cardboard i've seen yeah so yeah if you if you buy an airplane at a swap meet make sure you get the wing tubes if applicable yeah all the hardware needs to be there
[42:21] so so that's it by the way i can't remember i think i think that may have been reggie reggie if you're if you're listening or watching let me know if i'm if i'm remembering that correctly if it wasn't reggie then it may have been another trip but yeah somebody bought an airplane forgot the wing tube it wasn't me so that's all that matters it wasn't me because i i don't think i've ever bought a full airplane at that swap meet. Anyway. All right.
[42:48] So should we move on to listener questions? We've got a few of those to do. We've got a few listener questions. Hopefully, to kind of wrap that up, hopefully we've been able to save some folks some money. And don't be afraid to buy used equipment unless it's radio equipment. Yeah, like I said, I love used. I like the deals you can get. So anyway, let's move on to listener questions. You ready I said, I love used. I like the deals you can get.
[43:06] So anyway, let's move on to listener questions. You ready? Yep, I'm ready. Fred says, hello, I wonder if you did a podcast about battery chargers yet. Any suggestions on one for LiPos or NIMH? I have an old AccuCycle Elite from Habako, but it's not really safe for LiPos, from what
[43:24] I read being there's no balancing port. Getting back into the hobby, like I emailed you before, and it's not really safe for lipo's from what I read being there's no balancing port getting back into the hobby like I emailed you before and it's very confusing about chargers being so many different ones out there on the market yeah hope to hear your suggestions if you have any so what do
[43:36] you say for chargers Tom well I could not agree with Fred more that there is there is an overwhelming array of different chargers out there so generally speaking i would stick to a charger that is ac dc none that you can plug into the wall or your car or your car on 12 volt battery yep and also you're going to look for something that is that is a multi-chemistry and and what i mean by that look for something that is multi-chemistry.
[44:07] And what I mean by that is it's a charger that will charge, that has the right programming already installed into the charger to charge all the different types of batteries, nickel-metal hydride, nickel-cadmium, lithium polymer, lithium ion, the lithium iron, the LIFE batteries. Most ACDC chargers that are sold today, and I'm going to just throw a number out there, like 75% of the ones that I saw when I did my
[44:34] research on our Saving Money episode on Amazon, all of those, 75% at least of the chargers that I typed, when I typed in RC battery charger in the search block, they were all that type of charger, ACDC multi-chemistry. Myself, I'm a huge fan of the high-tech chargers, which are a brand name, so they're a little bit more expensive, but they make one, I forget the name of it, but I use a four port, a high-tech four port charger.
[45:06] But you can get that same, you can get that charger with the same features in a single port for much less money. And I want to say that charger is about $59. Yeah, chargers are not all that expensive. Like name brand versus cheap ones, there's really not much of a difference. Right, right. And like I said, I'm a huge fan of the high-tech charger thunder power makes a good charger too they're a little bit more
[45:28] money but bottom line just just look for a charger that is convenient to use and something that does the multi-chemistry and and what you're looking for is the the programming the charge profiles are specific to each type of battery and And it'll say that on the menu too. It'll say as you're going through the menu what it will charge. And really, as long as it has the LiPo balance charge thing on it, you're good. And when you're charging, charge at one capacity.
[45:55] So if it's a 5,000 milliamp battery, charge at 5 amps. If it's a 1,300 milliamp battery, charge at 1.3 amps. That's the easiest way to do it. Yep, exactly. Next. You ready? Yeah. So Ron asks… Not me, by the way. Yeah, this is another Ron. Different Ron. He says, C-Spectrum has come out with a four and six channel sport receivers that are lower cost, but still more expensive than the orange receivers. He asks, are orange receivers a reliable option?
[46:23] Well, we've touched on that before and that is such a loaded question it is and i'm going to say depends on your airplane i mean that's the long short of it yeah that's fair i like orange receivers except they're getting expensive they are like they they've gone up more expensive than they were. Yeah, they've gone up quite a bit to where it's not as great of a deal to where I'm not all that concerned about spending the extra
[46:50] money on something that's actually like spectrum. The six-channel receiver I just bought for the so when i what are you cold i've just it's it slays me that that you're you're cheapening out is that what you're saying on a project that you put so much care and effort into oh well but it'll it'll work or it won't work i agree and so far it's worked so far for the three flights it's worked it's it's a crapshoot all the time. Yeah. Now, I will answer the question.
[47:28] I will say kind of the same as what Ron here is saying. what is the airplane worth to you? I'll go further and I'll say, how much do you like that airplane? Is it worth getting upset if it crashes because you cheaped out on the receiver yeah especially now that that the prices are are so much more closer well now than they used to be that was the point i was trying to make when i bought my orange receivers years ago they were
[47:55] 5.99 and six nan or 6.99 a piece i think the four channel was 5.99 and the sixth channel was 6.99 so under seven bucks i'm cool with that and i think they're up to like $20, $25 now. Would you put an orange receiver in the Trimotor project? No. Okay. But I don't necessarily know if I'm comfortable doing, I don't know what I'd be comfortable doing in there. That's probably going to have to be like a, I don't know, a 10-channel spectrum receiver with satellites.
[48:24] I mean, we're going to need a real good setup in that one. And we're going to need the channels for it, too, by the way. Yeah, absolutely. A lot of extra stuff. A lot of extra stuff. So, Ron, not you, Ron, but Ron, our listener. Cool, Ron. It's up to you. I mean, we've already kind of sent you an email back. Hopefully, you've read that. But my take on it is how much do you like that airplane? If it's
[48:46] an airplane that you really like, it's probably worth spending a few extra dollars to get what I would consider a quality product. Having said that, I don't want to beat a dead horse. But the only issue I've ever had with a receiver has been spectrum. Yeah. what it's worth i've i've flown orange stuff and had no problems with it yeah yeah i understand this actually if you're watching on youtube this little airplane in front of me has an orange receiver in it yes it does so be it all right
[49:17] so noah contacted us through email i believe it was actually he contacted us through email, I believe it was. Actually, he contacted us with the listener survey, and then he followed up with an email. Yeah. Which reminds me, do a listener survey. If you haven't filled one out, fill one out and let us know what you're thinking. Right there on our rcplanelab.com, right on the homepage, there's a listener survey link.
[49:39] Yeah, do that. And once again, not to beat a dead horse, to use your phrase. I think I said it right, right? You did. Okay, good. But yeah, those listener surveys help us by helping you. It gives us ideas to talk about, so hopefully we're not boring you to tears. Hopefully you hear stuff that you want to hear and not just what we want to talk about. And lets us know the negative feedback for doing things wrong or, any feedback is good.
[50:04] So if there's things you don't like, let us know. Yep. Yep. Make it constructive if you can. Tom gets his feeling hurts really easily. We'll take any feedback. But anyway, Noah, he contacted us. And by the way, Noah, thanks for that mind-numbing article on epoxy polymer chains and molecular structure and all that stuff. I did read it. Took a couple of naps, I think, probably while I was reading it. But anyway, the article was good.
[50:38] It did explain why 30-minute epoxy doesn't get brittle like 5-minute epoxy can. And it has to do with molecular chains and the length of them and the longer chains are more stable. So therefore, they are less brittle and on and on and on. But anyway, what I really- Wow, kind of like I feel now? Yeah, exactly. Okay. Exactly. But really what I wanted to talk about Noah about was he asked us about a pedigree twin otter 480 project that he
[51:07] was building and that was really more up your alley ron because this was a twin electric project that he was talking about okay so he kind of wanted to know some things to avoid when building from plans and what your advice would be for setting up a dual, a twin 480 electric airplane? Well, if you're building from plans, be okay building a wing three times. No, I mean, it might not happen, but just be okay making mistakes. Hopefully it won't happen. Be okay making mistakes
[51:38] because it's going to happen. That's for sure. And the beautiful thing about Balsa is if you make a mistake, easy to fix. And usually fairly inexpensive because you don't normally mess up a whole whole huge thing right unless it's a wing unless it's a wing but you shouldn't have to build three wings no that i feel was my mistake but i've learned and i won't do that again i will take some credit for for one and a half of those. As for setting up dual electrics, so what I did,
[52:11] I ran them both, like both of the speed controllers and engines, off of a single battery. My plan originally was to use two batteries, but I could not make that physically work with the setup I had. Ideally, I would have gone with two batteries just for the whole flight time thing. But with the single battery setup, I ran, batteries obviously get into a Y harness, and then that powers each of the speed controllers,
[52:40] which powers the motor. The speed controllers each went into a separate channel. Now, you can run it if you want just on a Y harness on that and use a single throttle channel, but I like to have a little bit more control if I need to over, end point adjustments and all that kind of stuff with the motors. Normally, you don't have to do anything, but I just like having a little bit of redundancy built in. So, I'm sorry, so you would mix the two channels together then?
[53:06] Yeah, I did a mix on the, I think it was the gear channel, since I didn't have gear, just did a mix of that to the throttle. Because of that, you were, or I was able just to run the power back into it, and I didn't have to worry about cutting one of the power leads off of the, what, not Dean's connector, what's the JST plug? Yeah. If you're running two batteries, one of them is going to be powering your radio, the receiver in there with the BEC. So with that, pick one to do that,
[53:36] and then your other one you're going to have to cut the power cable to it. So the power cable that runs from the other unpowered, hold on, how do I want to say that? So one ESC will power your receiver. Yeah. And so you'll have to disable that lead off the other ESC because you don't want to overpower, you don't want to double the power into the receiver. Well, it's not necessarily doubling the power into the receiver as much as its signal quality.
[54:02] So like you're going to have different grounds and usually with ground you want to have a common ground. So if you can't have a common ground by using two batteries, it's best just to cut one of the leads off on that. It's not gonna hurt anything, all you need to get out of there is gonna be the the signal anyway, so that's what I would do. Hopefully that made sense, if not reach out and I'll try'll try and answer that a little bit better for you.
[54:28] But, yeah, that's what I did online. So you talked about mixing the two channels together. This little cheapo radio that we're going to give away, yeah, it has three programmable mixes in it. So you could do that with this radio. That's awesome. Just saying. Yeah, very good. What else you got? Anything? Yeah. So a couple of episodes ago, we kind of broke down the remote ID and how we can, how I feel like it's
[54:54] better than it was. It's still not ideal, but it's something that could have been. Yeah, something I feel like I can live with. I did get a, was contacted by jonathan who had some valid concerns of his own even with the new layout i don't want to read the whole email but i do want to address the the one concern that he had about a patent that had been applied for and granted to a an individual that is in the drone industry and a designer of drones.
[55:26] And his concern was that this patent was going to basically put a stranglehold on anybody developing technology for the remote ID device that we can retrofit to our older airplanes. And his concern that it's going to become cost prohibitive and you'll be buying from one, a sole source for that who can just charge whatever they want for this. It's a valid concern. It is. It absolutely is. However… And on the surface, that's exactly, that was my first impression also. Right.
[56:02] So I did some more digging, a lot of reading, and I went out and, it's a patent for really the idea of using some sort of a broadcast as opposed to an internet connection to accomplish remote ID. So basically, the patent allows the use of Bluetooth, wireless, Wi-Fi, whatever kind of broadcast technology you want to use locally. That's what the patent really is about. The patent really doesn't cover to any great degree the technical aspect of how that's going to be accomplished.
[57:01] So it's still going to be open for competition. of how that's going to be accomplished. So it's still going to be open for competition. I mean, manufacturers are always, they're in the business to make money. And the only way to do that is to be competitive in the marketplace. And so developing a remote ID device that we can retrofit to our airplanes is going to be, in fact, Horizon, if are subscribers to horizon's newsletters they
[57:26] addressed it in just a in like one or two newsletters ago how they're already working on designing remote id devices so i understand jonathan's concern and i was concerned too when like on the face of it when i first looked at it, especially granting this patent to somebody who's in the drone industry. Oh, certainly that spells disaster for us regular RC airplane guys. But the patent is actually very, very general in nature and it allows for competition.
[57:59] And in addition to that, something you discovered. Yeah, he's a hobbyist. Yeah, the guy that got the patent is a hobby, is a RC airplane guy also. So sure, he wants to make money in the industry, but he also doesn't want to kill the industry that makes money for him. Yeah. So, Jonathan, I understand your concerns. And like I said, on the face of it i felt that way also but after reading it and i
[58:26] think you'll find too if you if you kind of dig into it there's plenty of room for competition in the marketplace and i don't think they're going to price us out of out of the out of the hobby with this device so that was all i wanted to say about that yeah time will tell but i've not seen anything really that's concerned me too much yeah Yeah. Like, we're still doing this. If I thought the hobby was going to end, like, if I thought the sky was falling,
[58:49] we would have thrown in the towel and not done this anymore. Right. We're still here. Don't worry, people. Sky's not falling. We're good. We still have time. I mean, the implementation, we worked out the dates. It's quite a ways away. Yeah. So we can enjoy the hobby. Even if worst-case scenario happened, we would still have several years to enjoy what we're doing. Well, a ways away. So we can enjoy the hobby. Even if worst case scenario happened, we would still have several years
[59:07] to enjoy what we're doing. Well, a few years, I wouldn't say several. I promise it's not gonna come to that. Nope, it doesn't seem like it. No. And it doesn't seem like that's the plan. Nope, nope. So that's all I wanted to talk about with Jonathan's reply there. Do you have anything else you wanna talk about? No, I just wanna remind our viewers and listeners and our that we're going to be giving away this radio here hopefully if
[59:30] everything goes as planned like maybe the first or second week of april i'm gonna thrash it and i'm gonna give it to ron and he's gonna thrash it and we're gonna put it through its paces but you can look forward to a a review video on our YouTube channel very soon. Hopefully I'll get to fly with it maybe even as early as this week. So you can look forward to that. That'll be coming. We're going to give that away. If you're not a patron yet, patreon.com.
[59:56] There's a link on our webpage. Become a patron. rcplanelab.com slash patreon. Yes, thank you very much. Or patreon.com slash rcplanelab. Oh, either way. There you go very much. Or patreon.com slash rfcplanelab. Oh, either way. There you go. There you go. All right, cool. Anything else? No, that'll do it for me. Well, then until next week, I'm Ron. And I'm Tom. Good night.
[1:00:14] Good night. សូវាប់បានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបា Thank you.
