Ep 56: Radio Giveaway Starts Now! And Tri-Motor Talk, both our RC Model and the Full Scale Airpane.

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Join us for the main discussion, practical takeaways, and stories from this episode of RC Plane Lab.

In this episode of RC Plane Lab, the guys officially launch the FlySky transmitter giveaway! They talk about some updates about their RC Tri-Motor project, and then get into talking about the full size Ford Tri-Motor that inspired their build.

Episode 56 Transcript

This transcript has been lightly edited for readability. Timestamps are retained.

Read the full transcript [0:00] Hello everyone and welcome to RC Plane Lab. I'm Ron. And I'm Tom. And we're going to give away this FlySky FS-I6 transmitter-receiver combo. We are finally ready to announce all the rules and the description and the time frame and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, we have that nailed down. Starting February 12th of this year, 2021, you can enter to win it. And entering is, I mean, it couldn't be easier. It's super easy. All you got to do is head over to our website, rcplanelab.com,

[0:32] click on the giveaway link. It'll be right at the top of the page. Super, super easy to do. Put your name and your email address on the entry form and no purchase necessary. none of that stuff, yada, yada, yada, enter to win. It's just that easy. And there's a link to our YouTube channel on the entry form. Guess what that does? What does it do, Tom? Gives you a bonus extra entry. A bonus extra entry. It's like two for the price of one, which the price is free.

[1:02] I mean, so it's really free for the price of free, but you get double. Double your chance of winning. Yeah. So you click that link, opens up our YouTube channel, gives you an extra entry, like I said. And while you're there, you can kind of check out our content, check out the videos we've posted. The Duelist Maiden videos are on there. Ron's Yak, or was it a Maiden? It wasn't really a Maiden. No, that was a Maiden to me. Yeah. That was the first time I'd ever flown.

[1:25] First time Ron had ever flown the ginormous yak that he owns. Which is going to be put to shame size-wise, by the way. Pretty soon. Anyway. This is behind us. At any rate, got off topic there. Check out what we have on YouTube. Look around. There'll be more videos posted soon. If you would do us a huge favor, click the subscribe button. And also click notifications. If you turn the notifications on, anytime we post something on there, you'll get

[1:51] notified as soon as we post it on there. So you guys won't miss anything. Yeah. And you don't have to subscribe to be entered the second time. It's just a link to open up the YouTube channel. Right. So that's not what I'm looking for. A requirement? Sure. That's not a requirement. It doesn't help your chances to win. No. But it makes us feel better. It makes us feel better. Right, right. So lots of cool stuff on the YouTube channel.

[2:18] We'll have an unboxing video and a review of this radio that we're going to give away. So that would be something to look forward to. And you won't miss it if you have notifications turned on on the channel. So you can expect that video coming shortly. I've already flown the radio in my old stick 60 size airplane. Did a great job, actually. Yeah, no problem. I didn't have any trouble at all. And so I'm going to hand it over to Ron here pretty soon.

[2:46] He's going to put it in one of his electric airplanes and he'll give it a thrash and we'll make sure we include that in the review video so you guys can see that. Yeah. And if you have notifications turned on, you'll know exactly when it's posted. You'll know, exactly. So when does the contest end? I'm glad you asked. April 12th. Contest ends on April 12th and then we'll air or we'll announce the winner on our April 16th episode. So. Okay. Sound good to you? No, that's fine. All right,

[3:13] cool. So easy, easy peasy. Just click the giveaway link at the top of our page and go to YouTube for that extra entry. Just click the link. It's exciting. I'm looking forward to it. It's going to be cool to see who wins. I think whoever gets the radio, I think they'll be happy with it. I mean, well, number one, it's free. Yeah. And it does perform pretty well. And it works wonderfully. For what it is. So far. So far. Yeah. We'll see. Yeah. So last week we talked about

[3:40] whose duelist was faster, if you remember that. i do remember that that was a fun episode it was a fun episode but okay so my dad watched that and then he called me and asked first off he asked what i was making you guys for dinner one of these days but then he asked we got talking about airplanes and then he asked if i remembered my first airplane which i thought i did yeah because you told us that it was

[4:06] yeah my super cup but apparently i don't remember this he said i had one when i was quite a bit younger that i flew up at the at the park by our house when i was growing up and he said that i was able to fly it around pretty well for a minute and then i mean it and then I lawn darted it into the ground and threw it away. So your memory that you went on and on about in whatever episode that was about your Super Cub

[4:36] and going into the hobby shop and buying it and all that, that was a lie. Is that what you're saying? I'm not saying it was a lie as much as it's, I'm old and I don't remember stuff. Wait, wait, hold on. Did you just say that you were old? I will say that when it behooves me. And this time it behooves me. So yeah. I'm glad you can admit it. Like I said, I really, I don't remember that at all. Like it's the weirdest thing. Like

[5:02] I have no recollection. Like I've thought about it and tried to remember. Like, I asked him what kind of plane it was, and he's like, well, I don't remember and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, I guess my whole spiel about when I first started was a complete lie. Well, it made for a good story, I guess. Well, it was a story. I don't know how good it was, but… I can't believe you flew a model airplane and have no memory

[5:26] of it that that i just i can't believe that i can't believe it either like i don't yeah i have no clue okay i'm i'm thrown for a loop and maybe maybe he's getting old and senile and remembering things that didn't happen oh you think that's it you think he's he's crafting memories out of nothing you think i mean maybe, maybe. No, actually, I don't think that, but I just, I know. Mr. Hall, if you're watching, I believe you. I know I have

[5:51] a terrible memory, so that's fully possible. Okay. Well. But yeah, so apparently my first plane was back when I was a lot younger. Yeah. And that you have no memory of. That I have no memory of. It ended the same way that I guess a lot of first airplanes do, though. So it's in the trash. Well, that's unfortunate. From way back when. Well, that was probably not as interesting a story as the actual story that you told us on the podcast. Maybe. I mean, if I remembered it, we'll see.

[6:22] Well, maybe you will remember it eventually, and then you can talk about it again at a future time. Anyway, yeah, that's all I wanted to say on that. So what else you got? Well, for now, yeah, so some good news coming to all of us Balsa builders. Balsa USA on the latest, I think it was the latest episode. It aired earlier this week on AMA Air on Facebook. I don't know if you guys watch that or not. I do. But Balsa USA announced that they're going to get into the tool making

[6:50] business. Really? So if you don't know who Balsa USA is, they are a kit manufacturer here right in the States. And they produce very nice quality kits. A lot of really nice World War One scale, big airplanes. Are they the ones that have the telemaster, like the rights to the telemaster and are creating that? Or is that somebody else? I believe that's Carolina Custom Kits. That sounds more like it. So forget I said anything. At any rate, yeah.

[7:16] So it's a relatively big company that builds or that produces Balsa airplane kits. that builds or that produces balsa airplane kits so that can only mean that the tools that they're going to produce are probably going to be for hobbyists build building airplanes out of balsa so great news as as ron and i have said on many occasions not just on the podcast but also just in conversations that we had about the lack of really neat tools in the hobby

[7:47] that used to be available that are no longer produced because either the companies aren't around anymore or they just don't produce them anymore. So really good news for us. I'm glad Balsa USA is going to do that. And they've already got their first new product. I believe it's on their webpage. It's a sanding tool that you can sand perfect, angles or bevels. it's a, yeah, it's a pretty slick little tool. It comes

[8:10] with a couple of blocks that you can glue some sandpaper to, and you can sand perfect 33, 45, 60 degree angles. like if you're stick building and you want those nice miter joints, this will be a really, really handy tool to own. So good news for us, Balsa builders. I'm really excited. I can't wait to see what they come out with. Yeah. So, yeah, balsausa.com, that's where you can find this new tool. And like I said, I'm really excited.

[8:37] I can't wait to see what they come up with. That's awesome. Yep. I wonder what else they'll do. Man, there's so many possibilities. do? Man, there's so many, there's so many possibilities. I remember one of the tools that, that I still use, a Great Plains contoured sanding block. It's a piece of aluminum extrusion that has a perfect shape to grip that you can't buy anymore because they don't make it anymore.

[8:59] But, something like that, or, I just, I don't know, I can't wait to see what they come up with next. I think it's, I think it's good news though. So. Awesome. Yeah. We need to get Balsa building going again. it seems like from, from stuff I've read on the, on the internet forums and even on Balsa USA's website, I mean, Balsa USA and SIG, these companies are

[9:17] still around. So that's a good thing. And they're, they're producing new stuff. So, I mean, that tells me that there's still a core out there of Balsa Builders. And if you get on the forums, like on RC Groups and RC Universe and these other places you can visit, and some of the new Facebook groups I wanted to talk a little bit about too, like what's the one that you, I think you sent me something and I joined it

[9:43] and it's like nothing but the Balsa Builders Association or something like that. Oh, yeah. Man. That's all my Facebook is, by the way. Me too. I have nothing other than RC Airplanes on it. Like literally. Yeah. RC Airplanes and dog videos. That's pretty much. No dog videos for me. Anything else that pops up, it's usually a click, they unfollow and whatever comes up next is usually Balsa building.

[10:05] But anyway, it seems like there's a lot of folks out there posting pictures of their builds on these Facebook groups. So, I mean, I don't think Balsa building is dead. I think I feel like it's going through kind of a, I don't want to say renaissance, but like a resurgence maybe. So that's exciting. I almost spilled your drink there but i caught it did you see that it did that's cat like reflexes good job it scared me

[10:31] a little bit yeah yeah but no i think i think balsa building is is is definitely not dead and i i feel like that it's it's gaining popularity again yeah so cool good news for us yeah because we like to build with Balsa. And we're going to continue to do it for a long, long time. Well, we're going to have to because we've got a big project we're going to have to work on. Going to have to or get to? It's all about how you look at it. That's true.

[10:56] Sometimes it can feel like work, but right now we're really excited. Yeah, because… The Ford tri-motor. Well, no, we're excited because we're going bigger. Oh, yeah. Well, Ron's excited. Well, I had to compromise with Tom. I wanted to do bigger than what we had originally talked about. Ron always wants to go bigger. Well, you can't say no. Well, I did, finally. Well, okay.

[11:27] We decided, by the way, that we're going to do 144-inch wingspan, so that takes us to 12 feet. Nice even number. Not as even as 10, but even. I wanted a 156-inch wingspan. Oh, my goodness. 13 feet, but what? It's okay. 144 inches is what we're going to do, and that's pretty much, I think set in stone. Yeah. Anything bigger than that, physically speaking, I will have trouble getting it in and out of the house. Well, that's not my problem. You got to figure that out.

[12:02] We haven't quite nailed down the details.

[12:11] The plan was to build a majority of it at my house because that's where most of the time I'm going to have to spend is going to be there. So, yeah, the fuselage is what I was the most concerned with getting it in and out of the – because I have a basement, that my shop – I've talked about it before. Right. It's downstairs, and you have to go up the stairs and kind of make a turn.

[12:25] A really long fuselage would be really difficult to make that so that's kind of why i kind of cut you off at 144 156 inches it's probably only another inch and a half or two inches maybe three inches length of the fuselage but when you're already at 80 plus inches it makes a difference. But we may not do all the construction on my house. We may do some of it here. So we'll see. Yeah. I mean, that's to be determined.

[12:56] This is a very fluid situation still because we're in the planning stages. But we've nailed down a wingspan. Have we? Yes, 144 inches. Okay, 144 inches. Yep. I've decided. And that ends up being, by the way, a little over a 15% airplane. It's like 15.4% if we're going to be completely by the book, if you do the math. Okay, okay. So it's weird because the Yak I have is a 42% Yak, and this airplane that we're building is a 15.4% tri-motor, and the tri-motor is bigger

[13:29] than the yak. Well, I mean, that just goes to show you how small, in reality, these yak, these, well, not just the yaks, but the yaks, extras, edges, how small in real life they actually are. They're tiny. They're very small. I mean, like, if you've ever seen one in real life, it's like, is this a big RC airplane, or is this a real, like, full-size airplane? Right. And it's, yeah, they're tiny. But that's okay. Yeah, totally.

[13:53] Because they all have their point, and their point is to go fast and have fun. It's like a sports car. Exactly. So, yeah, so 15%. We came up with, because we had to resize the plans. We did. Like I said, the plan that we downloaded, which we're not, I don't even say or think we're going to say we're going to follow that plan as much as we're kind of using that for an outline. Just an outline. But it is.

[14:16] This is going to be, no kidding, a scratch build because we're going to be, I mean, we have a plan, like a jumping off point, but our finished product, as far as the plan is concerned, is going to be ours. Oh yeah. I mean, because it'll be a pretty much a complete redesign. We're just, we just needed a scale outline. And that's what this plan here behind us, if you're watching, is all it's really providing is the outline. And this is the 117 inch version behind us, not the 144 inch. I

[14:46] still have to replant or re-print the plans. But anyway, so it's 185% of the 78 inch wingspan plan. Yeah, nearly 200%. So it took me a long time to figure that out. We did a full episode on plans resizing and I completely failed by not putting a page on the website. And when I went on our site to try and find, like to see if I actually put how to do it in the show notes and stuff, I couldn't find the episode. So sorry, if anybody's trying to find stuff on

[15:20] our website, I did add a search bar. So now you can, search for certain episodes or search for topics or search for something like that. But I also did a full like write up in a small article on there on how to resize and how to print. So now we have a page on there for resizing plans. And if nobody else uses it, it's just as handy for me to go in and figure out when I need to do it. Yeah. So it's kind of just a reference for us. Maybe a little tool? Well, yeah.

[15:50] I wouldn't call it a tool because it's just a formula. But,. Well, but I mean, people like me who are math inhibited would find that very handy. And, yeah. it just occurred to me. I'm sorry. I don't mean to cut you off. No, go on. It just occurred to me that, we haven't really even started on the TriMotor project and we're already providing updates. Well, like I said, this is a fluid situation.

[16:15] We started on it because we've picked a plan and we've now picked a size. Yeah. And now it's just overcoming the challenges that will be associated with the huge upscale that we've chosen to perform on this plan. Yeah. I mean, like, what do you think we're going to come across? Oh, gosh. I mean, well, I mean, the thing that occurs to me first is it's such a big airplane. The fuselage is going to be really, really long.

[16:47] Like already I'm thinking like as far as the launch rounds are concerned, stock dimensional ball. So I think you can get balls of lengths up to 48 inches pretty readily. Our fuselage is going to be 80 plus inches long. So, yeah, we're going to be looking at things like splicing, joints, things like that. So, I mean, that's one challenge I can think of right off the top of my head. What's a lingeron? A lingeron is that long piece

[17:14] that runs the length of the fuselage or long pieces. Just on the top or like the whole thing? It's kind of like, you can think of it kind of like a spar for a fuselage kind of, if that makes sense. So like front to back on the bottom even or just like just, like, on the turtledeck? Bottom, side, turtledeck, yep. Oh, okay. something that runs the length of the fuselage is called usually a longeron, because it runs longitudinally. A run, the whole airplane. Exactly.

[17:39] See, you got it. Well, okay, so when it comes to finding, like, what size do you think, I don't even know what size balls we're going to have to go with on it. Well, okay, so when it comes to finding, like, what size do you think, I don't even know what size balsa we're going to have to go with on it. Yeah. Can we get, since we have, like, the balsa stripper and stuff, can you get smaller pieces of balsa and just laminate them together? You could. Absolutely. Oh, look at that.

[17:57] Problem solved. Next. offset the joints and, yeah, I mean, absolutely. And that's the kind of stuff that we'll probably have to end up doing, especially on the fuselage. We've elected to go with plug-in wing panels. So that kind of alleviates the stock length on balsa problem because I think our panels are going to be what, roughly? Well, they'll be under 48 inches probably.

[18:26] are going to be what roughly well they'll be under 48 inches probably and yeah if they're not with a wing tip i mean i think we'll be we'll be safely in that margin where we can use one piece spars in each panel but at any rate yeah those are the sorts of things one sort of challenge i that i can see right off the bat if it's a 12 foot wingspan then i guess it all just depends on how wide that center section is yeah so it might be over a 48 inch wing on each side.

[18:47] Well, but I mean, there's, there's quite a few inches of wing tip also that won't require a spar, six or seven. Yeah. On each side. It'll be close. but at the same time, we can laminate just like we would with a launcher on. So, that's one challenge. I mean, this is going to be a big airplane. it's not going to be that big. It's going to be bigger. Are you, this is going to be a big airplane. It's not going to be that big. It's going to be bigger.

[19:09] Are you kidding me? It should be bigger. It's going to require a lot of balsa. Yeah. So we need to order a lot of balsa. We'll order a lot of balsa, and hopefully we can get the balsa we need. Because, there's like a shortage right now. Well, that's not my problem. Find it. Well, I understand. But that could potentially be be a be a a roadblock maybe not a roadblock but something we'll have to

[19:31] like a runway runway block yeah yeah i mean like a pothole in the runway maybe that we have to we have to get around yeah but order balls up from several different places because we've one place may be out of the size we need or may only have so many pieces of, because this is going to require a lot of balsa. I think you're underestimating how much balsa is going to be. I think you're,

[19:52] I think you're overestimating it. It can't be that much. I mean, do you think there's going to be more balsa in this than in the two airplanes, the Doulas that we built? Oh, by far. Really? Yes. Yeah. I mean, look at the wing. I mean, we're going to fully sheet the wing, or at least mostly sheet the wing. Okay. That is a lot of wing to sheet. But it wasn't that hard to find that balsa. No, it wasn't hard to find it. So I don't think we're going to have a problem.

[20:16] Okay. Well, I hope you're right. I think you're just picking things to complain about so that you make it seem like… Wait normally your job well but it's your you're learning I guess you're taking after me now okay but no I don't think that's gonna be all that difficult okay especially if we end up cutting like our own sticks which I have no reason to think we wouldn't yeah we absolutely will I mean did you watch the saving money on ball or on the hobby

[20:40] episode watch it I lived it I think was i there yeah you were there i don't remember hey something else that might be a challenge so the ford tri motor has a corrugated aluminum skin yeah simulating that is going to be a challenge i'll be honest that's the part i'm not looking forward to yeah like i'm looking forward to it because i like the challenge but i'm not looking forward to it because I don't like the challenge. It's weird, but it's going to be.

[21:08] It doesn't make any sense. Like I'm, I don't know. I just want it to look good and work well. I do too. And I don't know exactly how we're going to do it yet. Well, we've got, there's a couple of ideas floating around, but. Well, right. Like we've talked about making a plug for a vacuum form machine, which means I have to build a vacuum form machine, which means I have to then… You have one. Remember, you got one from Brian. Well, yeah, but that's way too tiny

[21:32] for what we need to do with it. It is. So I'm going to have to build a big one. Oh, by the way, Brian, when I was there a couple weeks ago or whatever, he asked me if you wanted a couple more vacuum form machines, and I told him yes. Cool. So, yeah, next time I'm up there, I'll wanted a couple more vacuum form machines, and I told him yes. Cool. So, yeah, next time I'm up there, I'll grab a couple more for you. Of those or big ones?

[21:50] Of those, so that maybe you can make a bigger one out of the smaller ones. I don't know. Oh, okay. But I figured the parts wouldn't hurt to have. No, not at all. That's awesome. Next time I'm up there, Brian, if you're watching, set a couple of those aside for me. Cool. That took me off my train of thought. What were you talking about? You were talking about making a plug for the corrugation. Oh, so we're

[22:09] going to have to make a plug for the corrugation. Well, like specifically the leading edge of the wing. that's a fairly tight, comparatively speaking to the rest of the airplane, it's a fairly compound tight radius that we'd have to form this corrugation around. So that's definitely going to require leading edge forms, I think, probably to most likely, yeah, yeah, to vacuum form a leading edge. And then tying that into the other corrugation

[22:36] that's going to be on the on the rest of the wing might be, I mean, it's modeling, right? True. I'm looking forward to it. I am too. I just, I wish we had some of this stuff figured out because then I would not, be up all night thinking about when I'm supposed to be sleeping. Well, I mean, we're not gonna, I mean, we want it to look good. And so we'll do whatever it takes to make that happen. I did the math.

[23:03] If, okay, so for the scale that we're doing okay the corrugation on the side like okay so on a real tri-motor full-size tri-motor i think the corrugation was like an inch oh shucks i don't remember inch and a quarter maybe oh as far as like the depth and yeah okay all right ignore what i'm saying on that because I don't remember exactly, but I figured out for the scale that we were doing, it would be right around like 0.16 inches of the actual corrugation.

[23:31] Yeah, that's less than an eighth of an inch, right? No, eighth is 125. It's over, yeah, I was just going to say just over an eighth of an inch. So it's like close to like three-eighths. Yeah. Or not three-eighths, close to like three-sixteenths. Sorry. Yeah, there you go. I don't know how well that's going to model and be seen with the way we're talking about doing it. So we might have to make it just a little bit bigger. Like I've got router bits already that'll do quarter inch.

[23:55] And then we can do like a quarter inch corrugation and see how that looks and how that works. Yeah. But if we don't like that, then I'm going to have to use a CNC machine or something to make a plug and just like a 3D carved plug or something to whatever scale we go to. Yeah. If you guys have ideas, let us know. Cause we are early in the planning stage. Always open to suggestions. Yeah, we gotta figure this out. But yeah, so like one of the, I mean that,

[24:23] and a flat piece of corrugation is one thing, but then the curved section, especially like on the wing leading edge, that's another animal entirely. I mean, we're probably looking at hand, making from hand a model of the model's leading edge to then apply corrugations to, and then make a mold of that, and then make vacuum form parts from that. So that actually sounds really cool. Yeah. That process

[24:53] sounds like a lot of fun, actually. another thing that I'm not sure how we're going to do is getting a landing gear just right. Oh, yeah. That's another one. Yeah, because, so like on the plan we're using, the 78-inch plan that we're kind of using as a jumping off point, I think it uses 532 wire for the gear. you scale that up 180 whatever percent you had to do, that turns out to be like half-inch diameter steel wire.

[25:19] I don't think we're going to need to make our landing gear out of wire that's going to be that big. So that'll be another… That's going to be heavy if we did. Yeah, that'll be another thing that we'll have to design ourselves and incorporate into the structure that we'll also be designing ourselves. Now, do you think any of that can be done out of like hollow tube? Or does it all need to be like brass tube? Or should that all be steel?

[25:39] No, probably the main gear legs are probably going to need to be solid wire. Now, for the uprights that go to the nacelles, if they're not actually bearing any weight, we can probably make that out of, like, K&S streamlined tubing or something like that that's really, really light. Well, that might actually hold a little bit of weight. Well, we'll see. Because there's no, I mean, there's no, yeah, I think that's going to hold some weight and actually push it up to the wing.

[26:04] Oh, okay, well. Just the way the whole landing gear is designed on that. Probably then we'll make that out of solid wire. Well, maybe we could make it out of 530-second wire and wrap it with K&S tubing or something just to be decorative. Wrap it with balsa. You could do that, too, and give it a shape. Oh, that's not a bad idea. Yeah, so. That'd be lighter and easier. I mean, look at us, solving problems already. Talking it out. That's what we do here. Yeah, we're rising to the challenges.

[26:30] building the nacelles is going to be another challenge too. I have not even thought about that. Talking about the gear. I mean, the nacelles are kind of a weird shape, like on the real one, on the full-size one. So, incorporating the mounts into the wings i can i can foresee kind of because they're like on the full-size one they have streamlined braces kind of like a kind of like

[26:52] if you're familiar with a biplane you've got the interplane struts or the wing struts or whatever kind of the same idea so and since these are going to be transferring the torque and thrust of the engines to the airframe you that's something we'll have to work through too. I didn't think of that. Like I was just thinking about designing and making the shape. But yeah, there's a lot. Attaching them to the airframe was what I was referring to. Oh.

[27:20] Yeah, because they have to transfer that thrust that's going to be produced by the, now we're talking different engines even. Now I'm concerned about that. Now I've given you another reason to stay up late. Oh, shoot. Yeah, like really, I didn't even think. I thought when you were talking about nacelles being difficult, I was like, why? It's just a weird shape. Yeah.

[27:48] engines. A small discussion we had going with three pumped engines as opposed to a pumped engine in the center and two regular old four strokes without pumps in the nacelles. Maybe we could use one tank to feed all three engines and not have to worry so much about putting a fuel tank in each nacelle. That's exactly what I want to do. Like I want a single tank in the wing. Yeah. So, I mean, I've never actually designed or built or flown a model that fed multiple engines from one tank.

[28:14] Really? Neither have I. No. So that's something that me being a nitro engine guy, that's something that'll be fun for me to tinker with and figure out. And that's all on you. Well, you're going to help me build a stand. i'll help you build a stand so i can run three engines together off you oh that i want done because i want to hear all three of those together oh we'll make it happen like soon but you got to get more engines you got to get more engines first at least

[28:39] one now you have a okay because you had the OS 120. Yep. You had the OS 90? 91. OS 91. Yep, I had an OS 91. And then you bought another OS 91? I did. So technically we have the three engines. For the 117-inch. For the 117-inch. And potentially the 124, I think we were looking at briefly too. But now that we're at 144 inches, and I'm concerned a little bit about weight and thrust to weight, we really need to go to three 120s, I think.

[29:10] So because I have just completely taken our original plan and told you that let's make it bigger. Yeah, I'm sorry. Like, I feel bad. That's all right. But I'm not going to feel bad when we hear them all together. I know. It's going to be so sweet. Yeah. Like, I'm so excited. I really sorry. Like, I feel bad. That's all right. But I'm not going to feel bad when we hear them all together. I know. It's going to be so sweet. Yeah. Like, I'm so excited. I really am.

[29:29] At any rate, yeah, so that's another challenge, figuring out the fuel system on three. Luckily, three pumped engines, we can put the tank anywhere we want. How big of a tank, by the way? Sorry. As big as we can fit, hopefully near the CG. Like a liter of fuel? I don't know what that is. I don't really speak districts. I don't either. Probably, I'm guessing, at least a 26-ounce, if not bigger, 32-ounce, if we can fit it in the wing somehow. That's what we're going to do.

[30:00] As big as possible. I mean, I'm so looking forward to this. He's giddy. Like, I really am. Like, I don't… Yeah. This is one thing that I'm just so looking forward to. Keeping the weight down, that just popped in my head. I think that's something we need to really keep at the forefront of our thought anytime we design something or are in the midst of building something I think we're probably gonna get bigger engines before

[30:27] this is over oh my gosh I mean bigger engines are cool don't get me wrong yeah that's true but you may be right we'll have to measure the pole and all that I mean I think we'll be okay yeah I think so I can't wait to put I mean I can't wait to put three engines on a test stand and run them together. That's going to be awesome. We'll have to strap it down to something probably. Yeah, let's get that other one ordered and let's do it quick. Right.

[30:54] the other thing, hiding the radio, like we're going to figure where we put all that because we need all that hidden. Yeah, because you want to do a scale cabin or a scale-ish cabin. I so do. Like, I'm looking forward to that too. So yeah, hiding the radio gear, that's going to be something that we'll have to think about in the design process. So that's, yeah, that's definitely going to be a challenge. We already

[31:14] kind of, I think, figured out what we want to do for like the aileron servos. We're going to do like a pull-pull setup because the start or the scale one kind of had that arrangement. So the full-size one. I was going to say, there you go, you threw me. So, yeah, think of like a pull-pull rudder on your aerobatic airplane. Like that, only horizontal for the ailerons. Yeah. So that's two servos hidden. We don't have to worry about those.

[31:40] And I'm still pushing somehow to have the control surfaces be actuated by the wires on the outside of the airplane like really working not dummy wires well so yeah for the ailerons at least in the wing that's easy that's easy the elevator and and the rudder back there yeah that might be that's a challenge see we get to work we get to work gonna figure it out too we'll figure it out so let's talk about the real TriMotor. Okay. It's such a cool airplane. It's ugly, but so cool.

[32:10] See, I don't think it's ugly. Oh, I do. That's one of the reasons I like it, because it's just so ugly. It's so weird looking. It's different, sure. But it's, yeah, cool. Awesome, but ugly. Yeah. So, yeah, I think it's a cool airplane. Obviously built by the Ford Motor Company. Yeah. And Ron's a huge fan of Ford. A little less as I get older, but yeah. Yeah, it seems to be shifting as you get older. It shifts very fast, yeah.

[32:40] But actually the design dates back to a previous, I don't want to say owner, but an individual by the name or a company called the Stout Metal Aircraft Company. That's where the design actually originated. That design was bought by the Ford Motor Company or Henry Ford, like in the mid-20s, I think, 1925, something like that. And they produced the tri-motor from 1925 to 1933. So it's not like actually as long as I would have thought. No.

[33:12] After I saw it, I looked it up and did the reading. I was like, oh, that's really not a very long lifespan of manufacturing. Well, it was kind of an airplane that was thrown together. I don't even know how I want to describe it because it's completely different the way it's put together than any other airplane that had been built before. It is. Am I right in thinking that was the first all-metal airplane? No, I don't think it was the first

[33:42] all-metal airplane, but it was certainly one of the first all-metal commercial-type airliners. In fact, Henry Ford used that in like his literature to sell it to the airlines. It was, I think he said it's the safest airplane around, I think was his quote, because it was all metal in a time where a lot of airplanes had metal airframes with fabric covered control surfaces or something like that. Yeah. Also something that's kind of unique to the airplane is obviously it has three

[34:10] engines, which is not real common, but it also had internally braced wings. So you didn't have any wing struts. like how a Piper Cub has the struts that go out there and help support the wing? I guess I never thought of that, but yeah, you're right. Ford Trimod doesn't have those. Yeah, so it was one of the first airliners to sort of have that feature too. Not the first, but one of the first. Yeah. To be constructed all metal and no wing struts.

[34:35] So kind of a neat airplane just in that regard because it was new and it introduced all these new principles to commercial airliners. Yeah. So, take that for what it's worth. I think it's cool. I do too. The full-scale one, the 5AT that we're going to, I think we're going to model. That's the airplane we're going to be modeling after. Almost a 78-foot wing. Yeah, just under. Yeah, it's like 77 feet and 10 inches so there were a bunch of different tri motors like when you say tri

[35:12] motor that's not like talking about just a single airplane right they went through a lot of different iterations i guess and the 580 like you said that's the one we're going to be modeling after is actually the biggest of them with a 78-ish wingspan. Right. And I think the ones before it were 70, what was it, 74, 75, something like that. 74 for the 4ATs. Yeah. Yeah. Which was like, so they built 199 of these things, plus or minus.

[35:41] I think they had a few extra, according to what I read, they had a few extra prototypes that they, that they built and tested various engine combinations and things like that. So, not a lot of airplanes that they built, but yeah, there was a quite a, quite a variety, in the, in the production numbers of the different variants, like, just with the five ATs, there's like a five ATA, and then there's like an 580 a and then there's like an atb and then they go all the way

[36:05] down to like e i think i think or echo maybe even i don't know or just e or those of us that say e for e well military i can't help it but yeah they for for for as short as the production run was they're really quite a surprising number of variants of the same. Right, yeah, they were changing things very quickly. But that's cool. I mean… I think so. It works well. And if you ever, like, there's not a lot of these. No.

[36:35] But we saw one, I think it was actually like a week after we flew in one, we went up to the Henry Ford Museum for a little vacation. And they have one up there too. Oh, do they? Yeah, they have one on display. Oh, so is it an airworthy one no oh okay no it's display only it's one on skis oh well i remember what i mean i think there's you can look at the henry ford website or something that will tell you which which one it is oh i think it was a 480 but yeah it's one that actually

[37:02] was built with skis on it for taking off on snow. Snow, yeah. And they actually had them too, by the way, where you could take off on water. Can you imagine one of these things on floats? That would be scary. That would be cool, but scary. Yeah, how does that – huh. I'd like to see a picture of that. I don't think I've ever seen a picture of one. I haven't either. I've just read about it. Well, I imagine with all the research we're going to be doing, we'll probably run across that photo.

[37:30] Hopefully. We'll see. Maybe post that on the website. That'd be kind of cool. Not a very fast airplane. No. Well, by today's standards, no. But for back then. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. Things have changed a lot. Yeah. So, I mean, I think the things maxed out depending on the, on the engine combination and the, and the variant of the airframe, I think about 150 mile an hour, I think is where they maxed. And from what I read, they

[37:54] cruised at around 90 to a hundred mile an hour. That's where they cruised. Yeah. That's, that's not very fast, but that's still pretty cool, though, for back then. Something that big, to me, flying at just 100 miles an hour, it seems like it shouldn't compute. It's all wing. That's true. I mean, all wing. It's just huge wing on this tiny airplane. Stalls at 57 miles an hour, plus or minus. Mile an hour. Yeah, 57. Miles an hour. Miles or minus. Mile an hour. Yeah, 57. Miles an hour.

[38:27] Miles per hour. Mile an hour. I'm sorry, it's the Midwest in me. Mile an hour. Don't you guys say it that way? I say it that way. I know you do. It makes me chuckle every time. Other thing that I kind of thought was cool, it only weighed 6,500 pounds empty. Yeah, that's surprising. That's nothing. For a lot of metal and three really heavy, what I would assume would be heavy, nine-cylinder radial engines, I would have expected it to weigh more than that.

[38:58] Yeah, that's like two cars. Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, you're right. I mean, that's the weight of two cars. That's true. Not even heavy cars. No. I guess one heavy car, then, I guess, yeah. You're right. I mean, that's the weight of two cars. That's true. Not even heavy cars. No. I guess one heavy car, then, I guess, if you look at it. Yeah. I think some of today's pickup trucks are 4,500 pounds, some of them. So, wow. Yeah.

[39:15] When you put it in that kind of perspective, that's actually not very heavy at all. No. What could they be loaded to? Do you remember? I don't remember. Oh. 6,500 pounds? I don't remember. Oh, 6,500 pounds. I can't imagine. I mean, you could probably really load these things up, I bet. Oh, you would hope so. A lot of weighing. Yeah.

[39:44] So I think I saw somewhere where I read that they had about a 575 570 ish mile range and they could climb to 18 000 and some change feet on three engines that's but on two engines get this the the serve the max ceiling on two engines was only like i think i want to i might be wrong on this but it was 7 500 feet why is that i don't know like you would think if you got up there and lost an engine that you'd still be able to because air thinner all that kind of stuff

[40:10] yeah i don't know yeah that was in the in the reading that i that i read maybe didn't have enough pull to pull the yeah i don't know the airplane there's quite a quite a difference and i don't know maybe maybe that's the norm for multi-engine airplanes maybe maybe it's a safety thing i don't know but yeah i read that and i was like well that's strange it just hit me makes me want to go smaller so we have the proper thrust to weight ratio we're not

[40:37] going smaller that's not what just hit me and i this is way off topic. So the first airplane I built was a single engine. The second airplane I built was a dualist. And that was a two-engine airplane. That's awesome. The third airplane we're building. Yeah. Three engines. Tri-motor. One, two, three. Three engines. So what we've got to build next. What's next? Like a B-17 or maybe a B-24 or some four-engine thing. I think that's probably got

[41:06] to be next. That's funny. That just hit me. That's kind of cool. One, two, three. That is kind of funny. All right. Next, let's move on. Sorry. They weren't terribly expensive, these airplanes. Of course, now we're talking, 1925, 1930 dollars, but… I thought you were talking about the planes I built. Oh, no, the Ford dry motor. Back in 1930-ish, let's say, you could buy one for about $42,000. Wow. Yeah. Although with inflation, that's a lot more now.

[41:34] Yeah, it's probably, I don't know. A million dollars or something like that, I don't know. But it's funny. In the prep for tonight's episode, we were looking, and there's one for sale right now for million 1.4 million dollars 1.4 million so or they said payments of six thousand seven hundred dollars a month easy peasy i didn't do the math how many months is that i don't that would be in

[41:56] that like 75 years yeah i don't know anyway it's crazy well one one of the things i really liked about the tri-motor and it drew me to it was not just the fact that it's corrugated not just the fact that it's ford i love the exterior control panels or the cables cables yeah yeah i don't i don't know what it is but i just think that's so cool that you can see everything working do the cables do they pass by any of the windows of the cabin? No, it's above.

[42:26] Oh. Because, like, how cool would that be if you were, like, sitting in one of these things and you could see the cables moving as the pilot was, like, operating the controls? That would be really cool. I think that would scare me. You think so? Yeah. I think that'd be cool. But no, they're ran high enough to where you can't see them out the window. Ah, well. And then they're hidden in the wing, obviously, when they go out.

[42:44] There's a bunch of, I mean, there's a ton of pulleys and stuff in there that obviously takes it around so it works right. But, yeah, I thought that was kind of cool. That is cool. Something that's not so cool for the pilots on the Ford Trimotor, the engine gauges were actually mounted on the engines. Yeah, that was neat to actually see them when we rode on it. Yeah, they're not in the cockpit, so the pilot has to actually look out the window to see oil pressure and things like that.

[43:11] And not just out the window, out the window behind you. Yeah, exactly, through the spinning metal propeller. Yeah, you're right, because that's in front of it. That's so funny. Oh, gosh. I thought that was pretty cool. So we'll have to figure out a way to simulate some gauges on our… Yeah, they're not going to move. No. Okay, just making sure. No, they're going to… Just be printed pieces of paper. Right.

[43:35] So, yeah, I'm an engine guy, so these things had three, obviously three engines on them. Nine-cylinder radials, all of them, every variant. But they were different engines. They experimented with Pratt & Whitney. Lycoming made some radial engines at a later time for them. Obviously, Wright made engines for these things. At one point, which I find this kind of interesting, they experimented with a, I believe it was a right cyclone which is a

[44:06] supercharged version of their nine cylinder radial engine that makes about 500 horsepower actually made over that and they stuck that in the nose with the two whirlwinds out on the on the wing and so you had 500 horsepower in the center and then about 300 horsepower on each side of it so kind of kind of neat things you can do with a tri-motor because you can experiment with stuff in the middle. Different motors. Yeah. That's kind of cool.

[44:31] So yeah, there was some experimenting going on, which I think is cool. Well, see, our engines don't have to match them because they all didn't match on the full-size plane. Well, two of them have to match. Well, right. Right. But the center one can be whatever. Which is why our original plan would have been scale having a 120 in the center and two 91s on the on the wings well this is going to be scale anyway because it's going to be two different brands of the same

[44:54] size engine that's true so ys on the wings and an os in the middle and they both end in s anyway so it's close enough they're s engines yeah that's true i'll give you that one so yeah they produced about 200 of these things and over the course of about seven years so yeah when the production ended in 1933 that was it for a while ford went on to to experiment with some other stuff

[45:20] the ford fliver if you're familiar with that one, it was a little single seat. I saw one at Henry Ford, too. They had one hanging out. I built one, a little plastic model as a kid. Oh, cool. I'd like to do that as an RC sometime, too. Yeah, that would be neat. Except it killed the pilot. It did. It did. But anyway, Ford experimented with some of that stuff, and they certainly didn't leave the airplane manufacturing business. Well, I was going to say they kind of did

[45:45] because Henry Ford, I thought after his test pilot died in that fliver, what is it? Fliver. In the fliver, he kind of got like upset with it and didn't want to do airplanes anymore. He did. But Ford manufactured airplanes for America during World War II. Oh, yeah. They manufactured under license, consolidated B-24 bombers. But they weren't Fords anymore. No, they weren't Fords. america during world war ii yeah they manufactured under license consolidated

[46:05] b-24 bombers but they weren't forwards anymore no they weren't forwards so they were still manufacturing yeah the ford airplane division right it was no longer yeah so eventually ford sold it's kind of a kind of a weird roundabout story they bought the the airplane business essentially from stout metal aircraft and Stout Roger, I think is his name. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but he actually stayed with the company during Ford's ownership of it until about 1930.

[46:35] And then he left the business to go continue making stuff on his own. And then when Ford was done with the airplane, with the Ford airplane business, some years later they sold all of the tri-motor stuff. And I think even some of the Fliver designs went back to Stout, who had a new company, Stout something. It wasn't Stout Metal Aircraft at the time.

[47:05] stout updated the design of the tri-motor changed a few things updated the engines and all that and produced an airplane that was very similar in appearance to the tri-motor and it was called the bushmaster 2000 there's not a lot of information out there and i i didn't spend a whole lot of time searching but i'm sure it's out there but yeah bushmaster 2000 i think there's one that actually makes the rounds in the air shows. I didn't know that.

[47:29] Yeah, and I think they give rides on that one too. Cool. But yeah, that one didn't last long either because it wasn't up to the same performance standards of modern airplane of the era. And we're talking like 1950s when that was produced. So yeah. So that's the story of the Ford tri-motor. That's such a cool plane. It is a cool plane. Let's build it. We're going to. Okay, last thing I want to talk about. So, since we're releasing this just a couple days before Valentine's Day,

[47:56] don't do that. Sorry. Don't look at me with those eyes. Since this is being released a couple days before Valentine's Day, I thought it would be cool to talk about just really quick what do we love about the hobby so I'll go first yeah like personally I love how the hobby pushes me to learn and do new things case in point let's look at this tri-motor this is going to be a lot of learning and a lot of doing new things. Absolutely. I love building things

[48:28] and I love figuring out how things work. And this hobby can really teach you a lot, I think, about engineering, math, like hand-eye coordination, and really it gets you out of the house, which is nice. Yeah. You learn about fluid dynamics by how an airplane moves in the air, right? Physics, building techniques by building your own airplanes. And you can also learn about physics by seeing how an airplane crashes, how and when it reacts to the ground.

[49:03] It's kind of like the ultimate video game, but with real consequences, right? Well, very real consequences. I mean, yeah, definitely consequences, both emotionally, financially, possibly physically. Well, depending on who it is. Yeah, no, I get it. No, but I just love how, we're always growing in the hobby no matter no matter how much you think there's always somebody else out there that knows

[49:30] more than you absolutely and there's always something new to learn so it's the hobby is really evolving quickly and i'm excited to see where it's going so i i just love it it's fun yeah what about you anything well for me mean, put me on the spot here. I think I love no matter how much the hobby changes, seems like I can always find something that satisfies that urge to tinker with something because it seems like you can always find

[50:00] something to tinker with on your RC airplane. Oh, yeah. So I love that. I also love that, even though technology has had a huge, huge impact, especially in the last, I'm going to say 10 years, has a huge impact on the hobby, both positive and negative. Us old timers, some of the things maybe not so positive. I was going to say, what's been negative? Well, I mean, I don't want to get into that, but…

[50:28] No, just name me one quick thing, because I don't even know, like, what you're talking about that would be negative. Well, I mean, the lack of kits. the technology has allowed manufacturers to build ARFs faster. And so, everybody's airplane looks a lot… Not really, but the fact that, there aren't as many kit manufacturers around because technology has made it easier to produce ARFs. But what? And cheaper.

[50:52] I think that's gotten more people into the hobby, though. It probably has. So while that's a negative that there's not as many kit manufacturers and stuff. It's a positive to the hobby, probably. In general, yeah. See, I can turn anything. So thanks for turning my love into something,. No, I turned your negative into more love. Oh, okay. Right? I don't know. Into a positive? Sure. Negative to a positive? Sure. Anyway, go on.

[51:16] But even, yeah, so even though the technology has made a huge impact, all positive, according to Ron. And you now. There are still some things that I can do, the old way, which is comforting to me and maybe others like me who are maybe, not that we're resistant to change, but generally speaking, people don't like change. And the older you get, I'll tell you, the older you get, the less you appreciate the i'll tell you the older you get the less you appreciate change

[51:46] so i i love the fact that i can still do things if i want to the old way be it working with balsa or installing radio gear tinkering with engines that nobody wants to tinker with whatever that is i love the fact that i can still do. Or getting three of them to run at the same speed and building an airplane, with three airplanes. Well, yeah. Or with three engines. Three engines. I mean, it's going to be awesome. It is.

[52:14] But, basically I'm a hands-on, my personal, I'm very hands-on. And I love the hobby because it's very therapeutic to me because it is a hands-on hobby. Yeah. So. Have you ever built a hands-on hobby. Yeah. So. Have you ever built a three-engine plane before, by the way? Nah, never. Nice. Yeah. So this will be a first. This is a lot of firsts. It is. Cool. Yeah. That's exciting. It is exciting. This is only my second scratch build. So that's exciting. That is kind of fun too.

[52:43] Yeah. Yeah. My first one, we went over that. I can't remember what it was. I know what it is kind of fun too. Yeah. Yeah. My first time we went over that. I can't remember what it was. I like, I know what it is. There we go. I couldn't remember that, but I knew it was the one that never flew. So maybe this will be your first scratch build that flies. My first successful one. I hope so. Hey, there we go. All right. All right. Anything else you want to talk about? Are we finished? Nope.

[53:00] I think, I think we've bored them long enough. Well, thank you all for listening. If you're still there or watching, whichever. Until next time, I'm Ron've bored them long enough. Well, thank you all for listening. If you're still there or watching, whichever. Until next time, I'm Ron. And I'm Tom. Good night.

[53:10] Good night. សូវាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប� Bye.