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Join us for the main discussion, practical takeaways, and stories from this episode of RC Plane Lab.

Ron is getting Starlink! Ron and Tom discuss why that’s a good thing for RC Plane Lab. They also discuss airplane sizes and answer some listener questions.

Episode 57 Transcript

This transcript has been lightly edited for readability. Timestamps are retained.

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[0:00]. Hello everyone and welcome to RC Plane Lab. I'm Ron. I'm Tom. So Tom, a little exciting news on my end. Might not be exciting for you, but it is for me. I finally got the e-mail to the invite for the Starlink Beta Program. What that means is I guess- High-speed Internet. You stole my thunder. Sorry. What that means is high speed internet you stole my thunder sorry what that means high speed internet i finally get decent internet at my house which is a good thing it's good not just

[0:35] for my family but it's good also for the podcast for youtube for all that kind of stuff so we're actually going to be able to start doing interviews. We're going to start being able to do videos that I can actually upload quicker. Like honestly, for me to upload a video to YouTube now takes between 10 and 12 hours. Holy smokes. Yeah. And that's if it doesn't reset. Like there are times where it will just time out and I have to start it over. So

[1:01] that's crazy. Hopefully this works well and I'll have it in the next couple of weeks and we can get it installed and see what happens. But I'm super excited about that. So that's good for all of us. I'm all for making things easier for you because like you do honestly the lion's share of most of the work, like the editing and the uploading. And that's like all so over my head, but I'm glad that this will make things easier for you. I hope it

[1:24] makes it quicker. Even though it's not really RC plane plane related it really kind of is well it's getting it and having decent internet is not rc airplane related but having it will make so much difference for like what we can do for the the podcast and stuff so yeah so you have to like install a dish or or do you have to like like, what is this thing? So, it comes with a dish that is affectionately known officially by SpaceX, by the way. Oh, I can imagine. Dishy McFlatface.

[1:56] So, yeah, once we get it delivered and get it set up, really all we'll do for now, because I can't mount it on the roof yet because it's way too cold. Yeah, it's like supposed to be 20 below, like four below ambient and 20 below with a windchill tomorrow. Yeah, four below actual temperature. Needless to say, we're not going to do any flying tomorrow. No, but installing this is supposed to be pretty simple. You set

[2:19] it out in your yard and turn it on. So I'm hoping that's what it's going to be. Yeah, super excited. Freezing your giblets off while installing this. Hey, that reminds me, because it's so cold here, for all of our listeners and YouTube watchers that are in the Midwest or other cold environments, this would be a good time to top off those batteries. Oh, good idea. If you've been like us, if your airplanes are in storage, make sure those lipos are

[2:48] still at their storage charge voltage because they have a tendency to do what? They like to eat themselves. I just like to hear him say that. They degrade by themselves. 3.85 volts per cell is what you want to keep them at. That's the storage charge where they eat themselves less. Yeah, because they will degrade no matter what voltage they are, right? Yeah. But that's the voltage we try to keep them at because that seems to be the voltage that is less detrimental to their health.

[3:23] detrimental to their health. Also, top off or cycle those NICADs and nickel metal hydride batteries that you use to, like if you, like me, in a nitro plane, you use them to power your radio or maybe your glow heater or NIC starter, if it's so equipped. I saw, by the way, like I always thought you just called it a NIC starter. I didn't realize that it actually, like there are older older versions of it that actually say nice starter on it. Yep.

[3:49] Like, I thought that was just like a slang term for something. You thought I made that up, didn't you? I didn't think you made it up because you're not that clever, but I thought you heard it somewhere. I'm not very clever. I'll give you that. No, but yeah, I thought it was just like, like I said, a slang term, not actually what it was called. But yeah, I saw one for sale. It was called a nice starter. I was like, oh, I thought of you. Yeah.

[4:07] McDaniel RC, I believe that's what they call them. Yeah. I think that's what it was. Orange and yellow, right? Without a replaceable battery. Yeah. Well, the newer ones, I think. I think the newer ones from McDaniel, you can replace them. But anyway, top those off, recycle them, keep those things good health. And also, don't forget your transmitter. If you don't do any building or adjusting over the winter, top off the transmitter too.

[4:33] Yeah. For us, we do a lot of stuff with them in the winter, even though we're not flying. So, that's not that big of an issue. But yeah, make sure you keep them fully charged also. So, that way they're ready for you whenever the time arises that you can go fly. When the time comes that it's not 20 below and you can go fly, your transmitter will be ready. Yep. So we were having a discussion the other day about airplane sizes when we were kind of talking about this tri-motor building,

[5:01] which, by the way, we finally, we settled on the size of 144 inches. And we got, yes, we got the new plans printed, and they're behind us. So, it's bigger. Like, I really… It's so big. Like, okay, when I saw the other ones that were 117 inch, I thought, this could be bigger. like, this isn't all that impressive when we were hanging these up and you were on one side of the plans and i was on the other side of

[5:31] the plans which by the way is like the full length or the the full width of the wingspan yeah you looked so far away i mean like it would this is going to be a big airplane. It really is. Bigger, I think, than I was expecting. Yeah. The fuselage is over 90 inches long. Mm-hmm. And the wingspan is 144 inches. 144 inches. But what? It's going to be beautiful. It's going to be awesome. I mean, it really is. I can't wait to get started. But yeah, the size discussion happened.

[6:00] And ours is, what percent did you figure it out it's like it's going to end up being like 15.4 percent scale yeah so the discussion of airplane sizing you i mean it can be confusing especially if if you're kind of new to the hobby so i thought maybe we could break it down try to try to make sense of sense of all the numbers you might hear when you hear somebody talk about the size of their airplane. Yeah.

[6:29] So if you don't mind, I'd like to go with the scale first, if that's all right, the percent one. Sure, yep. Since we already said 15.6%. Four. Right, sorry. It's 15.435, I think, is what it ends up being when you do the math. Yeah. Which is so weird because I know where you're going to go. Go ahead. No, go on. I don't know where I'm going to go. Which is so weird. Like this huge airplane, the plan printed behind us here, it's, 12-foot wingspan and it's only 15% scale.

[6:58] Yeah. Your yak, your huge yak, I don't, the wingspan on that one is 120? 126. And is 42 42 so what that means is if we had a real tri-motor parked outside which i wish i did that'd be awesome it would take around six of these hold on is that right 15 30 60 90 yeah six 90. Yeah. Six to seven of these, closer to seven of these RC airplanes lined up wing to wing to be the same size because it's 15% of the full one. Right.

[7:32] If we had a full size, like people carrying Yak 54 sitting outside, it would take just over two of my 40% or 42% Yak to make up the full size. Actually, I guess two and a half, if we're really going to do that quickly. Right. Which means, 42% of the full scale thing is 126 inches as opposed to 15.4% being 144 inches. So the full size, yeah, I was going to say the full size airplane has a lot to do with the scale. So a bigger scale doesn't necessarily mean a bigger airplane.

[8:08] Right. I mean, it just goes to show you how small these 3D, performance airplanes really are. Oh, like in real life, like the Yaks and the Extras and stuff? Yeah, they're tiny. They're little sports cars. Yeah, the fact that your 42% Yak is still going to be physically smaller than our 15% tri-motor, it just goes to show you how big the tri-motor is and how small your yak 54 actually is. And quite a bit smaller. Yeah, yeah. I mean, not just a couple inches, worth, what, a lot.

[8:36] Quite a bit. Yeah, I don't want to do the math. So, yeah, that's the percent conversation. Engine size now is how a lot of these other ones are classified. So, yeah, sometimes we'll refer to our airplanes by the size of the engine or motor that's actually mounted to it. For example, you might have heard me say when I was talking about my stick that it's a 60-size stick. What I'm referring to is basically the size of the nitro engine that's mounted to the

[9:05] front of it. It's a six-tenths of a cubic inch nitro methanol burning model engine. Might be easier to frame the conversation by class instead of size, where class could kind of give you a general approximation of the size of the airplane. So the first class that we'll talk about is the half A, which basically is any airplane that was powered by a Cox glow engine. Usually an 049 is kind of the most common one. 36-inch wingspan kind of is where those all

[9:41] hovered around. Cox made plastic airplanes back in the day, the 70s and 80s, and they were all 20 to 24-inch wingspan. So when did that start, by the way, the Cox, like the Cox motors? Because I remember when I was young, would have been 80s, I had one of those. It was actually Control Line, if I remember right. But it never, never, ever got started. I think Cox goes back to the 50s honestly i don't honestly know but they've they've been around for a while obviously they're

[10:11] no longer a company like the the standard story that stuff that's cool is no longer available but yeah i'm pretty sure they go back to the 50s i don't remember if i told you or not but the i didn't find out till years later like after i started in actually flying rc airplanes the reason that i could never get that one to start i didn't know you had to have a glow plug igniter oh yeah so i had fuel in it i had everything

[10:35] trying to get it started and i would just flip it and flip it and flip it and nothing ever happened like i cut my hands so many times on that propeller just trying to get it to start and happened like i cut my hand so many times on that propeller just trying to get it to start and finally gave up yeah and they weren't easy to start anyway i and at least in my experience they even the ones that had the cool spring start where you could like turn it against the spring

[10:54] and then let it go and the spring would turn it over mine did have that yeah even those and i think that's when it came back or however that that's how I kept cutting myself. But yeah, I've never successfully started a Cox engine before. Yeah. So that's the half A. That was a half A size airplane probably you were dealing with. So anything powered by a Cox engine, basically, we consider kind of half A.

[11:18] The next size, most common size or next common size would be like the 10 size or 10 class, which is an engine that's powered by anything in would be like the 10 size or 10 class, which is an engine that's powered by anything in the sort of the 10 size range. And when I say 10, I mean 0.10. That's one tenth of a cubic inch. And if you're talking about four strokes, generally speaking, this

[11:40] class would be powered by something in the 20 size four-stroke range. Again, referring to the displacement, 0.2 cubic inches. So not very big. So this one, if you're on YouTube, this one sitting in front of Tom, what size is this? This is an Enya 0.09. So this airplane would fit squarely in this class. In the 10 size? Okay. Yep.

[12:01] So this class is obviously a little bit bigger, a little bit heavier than the half A airplanes, the size, the class before. Popular sport models in this class are usually around the 40 inch mark, plus or minus. And note that, when we talk about four strokes, they require a bigger displacement within their class to produce comparable power. the advantages to four strokes,

[12:28] they burn less fuel because they only fire every other stroke. They sound better. They sound so much better. And they have the ability, they produce more torque so they can turn a larger propeller. But it does take a little bit more cubic inch to be able to produce the same, power or equivalent power of a two-stroke of the same size. Which seems to be about twice. Yeah, that's a good rule of thumb. Twice the displacement for the same amount of power.

[12:57] Yeah. Yeah. And that's because, I mean, like I said, you're only firing every other stroke. So you only get that power stroke every other time yeah half the time which makes sense then yeah because it's twice the size for half the amount of power that comes out they do they do sound so much better the force i really i'm a huge fan of four strokes

[13:14] they're less offensive acoustically less offensive acoustically how How about that? I like that. Because they develop their sound lower in the frequency range, so it's less offensive to our ears. Okay. So there you go. So like the next class would be the 20 size class. It's a pretty common class. It's a nice small airplane. Hot rods, a lot of them. Basically in this class, anything that's powered

[13:46] by a 15 to 25 nitro two-stroke or a 40 size four-stroke. There'd be a lot of variation in the physical size of the airplane in this class. Has to do with wing loading and things like that. The weight of the airplane, the type of airplane. a slick airplane that has higher wing load is probably going to require a little bit more engine in this, like more like a 25, whereas a big floaty, trainer-type airplane, you can get away with a 15 in this class.

[14:19] Usually sport models in this range are 40 to 50 inches on the wingspan. So next is my favorite class, probably one of the most popular classes or sizes. It would be the 40 size. Like I said, it's my favorite size because they're easy to transport. They're usually fairly easy to build, and you can acquire a lot of them in a small space, which is, that's one reason I like them. But anything in this class, probably going to be powered by something in the 35 to 52 stroke range and 60, 65,

[14:55] four stroke range. Has a really, really, really wide envelope of sizes in this class because, we're getting a little bit bigger. Wing loading, we talked about Reynolds numbers and scaling before. So this is a really common size, not only because it's easy to transport and easy to store and things like that, but because they fly good. So I had a 40 size Hangar 9 cub and that had a sado 82 in it oh yeah so that would have been i mean i

[15:29] guess that would kind of fall into that whole double the size for the for the two stroke versus four stroke thing but i mean that thing flew really well and that was that was on the bigger end than i guess from what you're saying for this size it is because of it was just a floater yeah but it had a big prop on it so you didn't really over speed it or anything like you just had headroom okay which it was very

[15:52] slow flyer anyway yeah headroom is what i like to refer to as having extra power available should you get in trouble so kind of like a little extra boost exactly in Kart. Yeah, exactly. It's not a bad thing to have a little extra power in times of need. So here's an interesting tidbit. So there's a wide range of engine sizes in this particular class, 35 to 50. I think there may be 52 out there.

[16:29] 52 out there. The reason for that is when, so manufacturers back in a few years ago, they, we're getting in, marketing, right? Everybody wants to own the market in a particular size. So what engine manufacturers would do, they would, they would bore out their 40 size motors, bore them out to 46 or even 50 so that they would have more displacement, right? There's no replacement for displacement, makes more power, so that the manufacturers could claim that they

[16:52] had the most powerful engine in the class. And also, Hangar 9 marketed ARFs aimed at the 50 size range, which technically kind of falls in the 40 size range, but primarily to sell the Evolution 52 engine, which also happened to be owned by Horizon and Hangar 9 also happened to be owned by Horizon. So creating your own market kind of is a good way to own that particular market. Well, and that's what the P40 that we have is a 50 size. And I think on the box,

[17:20] it actually says something about the Evolution 52. It does. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. So there you go. Interesting little. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. So there you go. Interesting little tidbit, to try to gain an advantage in the marketplace, just bore and stroke your engine and try to produce the most power. And you can say, hey, we have the most power in the class. Sell more engines that way, right?

[17:41] So like a 50 size, they're all the same footprint then as a 40 size? It's all just internal? Yeah. So like an OS40, let's say an OS40LA and a 46LA, exact same crankcase. Interesting. Yep. So there you go. So the next class, 60 size, which is also a popular Warbird class. And as the size implies, it's powered by a 60 size two-stroke or anything in the 80 to 90 or more four-stroke range kind of in this class. The spans can, 59, 58 inches, up to over 80 inches on some airplanes.

[18:20] Like a big floaty airplane is probably going to be over 80 inches. airplanes. Like a big floaty airplane is probably going to be over 80 inches. This size was really popular with pattern airplanes back in the 70s due to the rules that were in place for pattern competition and also scale competition. So I think that's kind of what led to the 60 size warbird popularity and also happens to be still kind of within that somewhat easily transportable

[18:47] size range somewhat yeah it's getting more difficult yeah yeah it's not a car anymore exactly most of the time yeah so next up would be the 90 to 120 class and we'll start talking about cc's here because we're getting into that that range where gasoline powered engines develop enough power and are easier to operate or easier enough to operate to be kind of compared with their nitro cousins if if you will so the shunned cousins right yeah yeah i mean

[19:22] gasoline is taking over yeah there's no denying that the glow engines are not as popular as they used to be. They still have a diehard following, myself included. And I have many of them and will continue to fly with them. But, yeah, the gasoline, we start talking about the size here. That's a 20cc.

[19:51] So anything kind of 20cc gas is kind of a comparable to a 1.2 cubic inch four-stroke or even a two-stroke nitro motor. You can kind of lump them all kind of in this class. Generally following the trend, bigger airplane equals more power. These airplanes are kind of nearing the limit for glow power. These airplanes are kind of nearing the limit for glow power. Anything bigger than this,

[20:13] the glow engines just consume so much fuel that it's not economical to run them, even though I love them. But gas, I mean, there's no denying gas is cheaper to operate, especially when we get into the bigger airplanes. So when we're talking about, like, serious question, when we're talking about this tri-motor, how much is this going to run, like, fuel-wise? How much is it going to cost to run it? This is going to be expensive, even though it's four-stroke,

[20:33] but there's still three of them. Yeah, there's three of them, and it's going to be expensive. So we're talking like over a dollar a minute. Well, I haven't actually worked out the math per minute,

[20:57] but generally speaking, a YS or even this OS120 that we're going to put on this one, it's not – I mean, you could probably drain a 10-ounce tank in about five minutes. So two ounces a minute. Two, four, that's six ounces. Ron's doing the math. I'm trying to do it in my head really quick. 128 ounces in a gallon. So I just went dumb. Did your brain just go stupid? My brain went stupid. 128 ounces in a gallon. Six ounces in a minute. That means a gallon is going to last 125?

[21:22] No, a gallon lasts 20 minutes. 20 minutes. Oh, my. Okay. So yeah, we just did the math. A gallon is going to last us about 20 minutes. Well, I mean, that's at like full throttle. I mean, obviously they're going to be, they're going to be a little more, fuel conservative at half and we're hopefully we're going to have headroom. So we're not going to have to fly at wide open. A gallon at 20 minutes, a gallon is $30. So that's about $1.15-ish per minute. Per minute.

[21:53] So to fly that thing for an hour is going to be about $75. Wow. But we're only going to fly it, in probably 10 to 15 minute increments. So. You mean 20 to $25 spurts? Exactly. Oh, this is going to be fun. Let's do it. Well, but I mean, like I said, we're going to be hopefully because we have headroom or we hopefully will have headroom. We won't have to fly at much more than half throttle most of the time. So, oh, I'm just double your figures.

[22:23] Even if we get 40 minutes for a gallon, I'm good with that. Okay. 50 bucks for an hour, fine. Wow. Okay. Yeah. So there you go. Glad you're buying the fuel. That would be a good argument to go gas on this particular airplane. It would, except the engines are a lot more expensive. They are, but where do you want to spend the money? Do you want to spend the money on fuel consumption or on engines? I want four- four-stroke well you can get gas powered

[22:48] four strokes say don't make some and so does OS hmm yeah actually there's a few companies that so many I think Kevin and Moki still makes a gas gas to stroke I think one for the fact he already had some some motors it would be worth the discussion but right that's cool. Maybe later, we'll see. Yeah. So anyway, the engines or airplanes in this size are kind of nearing, like I said, nearing the limit for glow power because of economy, for one reason.

[23:18] And the gas-powered engines in this range are starting to make up for their kind of… So a gas engine, generally speaking, doesn't produce as much power because it's running on gasoline. Alcohol produces more power. I mean, per cubic inch, alcohol is the big winner. That's why race cars burn it. And it smells better. It does smell good, especially when you put clots in the mix and burn that too. I love that smell. Anyway.

[23:44] What is a clot? Clots, the oil. The lubrication that the two-strokes use in the in the in the mix and burn that too i love that smell anyway what is a clot clots the oil the lubrication that the two strokes use in the oh yeah that's where the smell comes from and for what one are you talking about now are you talking about nitro right oh i didn't okay yeah so anyway sizes in this range they can they can reach 90 inches ease quite easily or or even more. But like I said, we're

[24:08] nearing the limit for glow power here. So from this discussion on, we'll mention the glow equivalent size, but it's not realistic to fly with that, especially when there's so many options available gas-wise. So are all glow engines then in American units of inches? Yeah, well, so, no. No, okay. Okay, so as a general rule, though, if you hear somebody talk about, like,

[24:36] a cubic inch engine, they're probably more than likely, or more likely than not talking about nitro? Yeah, usually. But they're, as America has done forever, resisted the movement to go to the metric system. Most American companies that produce, well, all American companies that produce nitro motors, it was always cubic inch. In Europe, that's not so much the case. they still refer to even way back when in nitro motors, they were all in cc's. So,

[25:14] knowing those popular sizes, like a 120 is the same as a 20 cc, having those handy is convenient when you're shopping for engines or what have you. But generally speaking, yeah, nitro motors are sort of referred to by their displacement in cubic inches and not cubic centimeters. Well, because I noticed like the, oh, who makes the 15cc gas ones like RCGF, and I think Horizon had one too. Yeah, Evolution, I think, made one.

[25:44] Yeah, Evolution. Didn't they have one down one too. Yeah, Evolution I think made one. Yeah, Evolution. Didn't they have one down like the 10cc if I remember right? Yeah, actually Evolution made an 8cc that they packaged with their P51. I think we've talked about that one before. I think Reggie has that one now. And that was an 8cc, which technically was like a 40, I think it was a converted Evolution 46, I think. So it's just interesting, though, that when they're talking gasoline,

[26:08] because those are all gas engines, they went to CC for talking about size. Okay. And I think that's what always gets confusing to me, because I don't know the conversions. I don't know it off the top. I just know, like, I start with a 1.2 cubic inch, and I know that that's right around 20-something. It's 20 CC, plus or minus one or two, I think. I did the conversion a while back. But knowing that kind of gives me a jumping off point if I needed to do a conversion up or down from that.

[26:30] Well, yeah, because to me, a 20cc airplane sounds bigger than a 1.2 size airplane. So if you're talking like a 120 versus somebody saying they had a 20cc, I think the 20cc is bigger. It does. the number 20 is bigger than 1.20. So I can see why you would think that. But as we get farther along in the discussion here, I think to me personally, and I'll explain that when we get to the really big ones, but next on

[26:58] the list is the 30cc. So we go from 20 to 30cc. This is about 1.8 cubic inches. Still sounds tiny. Still sounds bigger. I understand. Okay. Common sizes, 80 inches or bigger. I've seen airplanes over 110 inches wingspan in this category. This has been a really popular size for warbirds. Actually, World War II fighters are becoming really popular size for warbirds actually world war ii fighters are

[27:27] becoming really popular in this size like that new ov-10a which is not award world war ii 230s cc's for that which i'm really excited about i want to own one of those someday anyway do it popular size for warbirds and ugly pardon the expression ugly profile planes they seem to be popular in this size too I think you're gonna get a lot of feedback I probably will but I'm not a big profile airplane fan so it's they are ugly I mean like I'll give you that they're not like you

[27:59] spend all the time building the wing so cool the wing looks awesome and then it's just a piece of flat wood i don't get it i've never flown one so maybe if i flew one i'd be a convert on it but they do they do fly well the simplicity i understand would be awesome they do but it just seems like it would be a pain to not have it look nice i like airplanes that look like airplanes for the most that's just me although i guess they have their point. They do. I mean, like…

[28:26] They make really good 3D, like if you're into, you want to get into 3D type flying, they make really good 3D trainers. And they're not very expensive, so they've got that going for them too. True. Okay. You've got me convinced. Yeah. So next up would be like the 50cc size, which seems to be… Seems big. As far as gassers go, this is probably the most popular size because, well, these are… To back the conversation up a little bit, these are equivalent to a three cubic inch.

[28:56] Not impressive. See, now to me, 50cc compared to three cubic inches doesn't… It doesn't sound… Like three cubic inches sounds huge. Not to me. Because I'm used to dealing with like 40 size nitro 2-strokes, which are 4 tenths of a cubic inch. And now we're talking 3 full cubic inches. I don't think I've ever thought about that being a 4 tenths of a cubic inch thing. Right. Because that sounds even worse.

[29:20] Yeah, but to me, when you frame it that way, that 3 cubic inches sounds, oh, 50cc, that's like an eyedropper or something. It seems awfully small to me. I don't know. Oh, I never thought about it that way. Now they sound small. Yeah. But at 50cc, yeah, they do. At 50cc, we're getting pretty big on the airplanes.

[29:41] Usually they start around 80 inches, which is, I mean, that's the size of a door. walking through a door here in start around 80 inches which is i mean that's the size of a door walking through a door here in america is 80 inches so that's pretty pretty good height right or high walking through it it's yeah height so that's a that's physically a

[29:59] big airplane this is a really popular size with the 3D type aerobatic airplanes, which you have now. Not ready, but yeah. But you have one. I have two in this size. I was going to say you have like 17 of them. Well, two in this size. And they do fly really, really, really well. So what do you think makes them that popular for what they are? Is it just the sizes? Yeah. you can snap roll. You can do a lot of things quicker with them than you can with the huge ones.

[30:27] Yeah, and they're big enough to fly better, bigger flies better. But they're not so big that they're really difficult to transport. Like a 50cc size aerobatic airplane is still, I don't want to use the word small, but it's still small enough to where you can transport it by a medium to large SUV. You don't need like a trailer or a truck to transport them. Yeah. So I think that probably is one reason why they're so popular.

[30:58] They're big, but they're not so big that they cause real problems with storage or transportation. Yeah. not like the next size 100 cc that's six cubic inches i mean to me that sounds huge six cubic inches that's like lawnmower engine size i mean i think a briggs and stratton is what are those i think the 13 horses almost six cubic inches i don't know so that's could be i might be wrong on that but anyway we're talking big big airplanes here very large that some

[31:31] of the bigger ones can be 165 inches for a big big float floaty type airplanes 165 inches in the case of the new new ish i should say the hangar 9 carbon crafters cub huge huge airplane we should go bigger with the trimod yeah here we go airplanes of this size usually going to require when when you start talking about airplanes in this size you're talking moving them with a trailer a really big truck or a minivan with all the seats folded down. Yeah.

[32:09] Storage, you got to have a big place to store an airplane like this. It's funny how as we move along in the size conversation, we kind of get away from talking about the size of the airplanes compared to the size of the transport vehicle. And talk more about what you have to have to take them to the field.

[32:24] To get it to the size of the transport and talk more about what you have to have to take them to the field to get it to the field yeah so you go from a car to an suv to a large suv to now you need a trailer yeah which means you still need an suv to pull the trailer well yeah or a truck or a truck yeah for sure yeah and then so here's somebody saying yeah i've got 150 cc, blah, blah, blah, or 170 cc yak. Blah, blah, blah. At this point, they're just huge, like ginormous.

[32:51] Like, does size even matter at this point? They're just flipping big. Yeah, because bigger is better. So, I don't know what you're talking about. Size always matters. So, there you go. So, there you go. We've broken it down for you. Hopefully, that makes some sense.

[33:27] I know when I still kind of have to do some thinking when somebody says, oh, I have a 42% yak, I'm like, okay, a 42% yak is not a terribly big airplane. But yeah, hopefully that'll make some sense to you and you can take that and have some understanding when you're at the next club meeting and somebody tells you, I got a 60-size Mustang I want to sell. And if you have any questions on that, reach out and let us know because we like hearing from people. We absolutely do.

[33:38] Speaking of that, we have a few listener questions to go over now. Okay. Let's start with the one from John. He says, thanks again for all the great material. Love listening while I drive. Have not checked out the videos yet, but I definitely will. He said, opinion and a question. Number one, FlySkyRadio. He said, I've used this. We happen to be giving one away. Oh, we didn't say that, did we? No, not yet. Hey, we're giving this radio away, so go sign up to win it.

[34:08] So the contest has already started. All you to do is go to our webpage and click on the the the giveaway link and that'll get you registered and then you can get a bonus extra entry by clicking the youtube link right there on our page gives you an extra entry opens our channel up in youtube and hey while you're there check out some of our videos. Yeah, just click the link at the top of the page and also on the main site. The first post has it listed on there too.

[34:31] So you can just click on that. Anyway, back to John's question. Fly Sky Radio. He says, I've used this radio only this far in my re-entry into RC after 20 years of life. I love it, but it is not the most convenient. I paid $18 for mine mine used at a pawn shop. $18. That's awesome. That's a good deal. Yeah. As long as it works. It's a lot of radio for $18. That's a lot of radio for $50 even. I mean, all things considered. Yeah.

[34:57] Considering what we paid for our spectrum radios that are a lot more expensive than that. We don't need to talk about that. He says, programming is a little awkward and YouTube is your friend. Oh, I didn't even expensive than that. We don't need to talk about that. He says, programming is a little awkward and YouTube is your friend. Oh, I didn't even think of that. Really? Yeah. Like, that's a great tip. Really? No, really. Wow. I thought I could just jump right into the programming

[35:20] and, it took me a while to set up the Flaprons, but I didn't even think about checking YouTube. it saved me so much time he says it does everything i've ever wanted to do flaps flaprons multiple models telemetry using turnigy sensors oh yeah that's a great tip too use the turnigy sensors yeah instead of the expensive spectrum ones he says i've used several different receivers and they all work, except the ones for drone. I eventually made it work by rewiring a harness

[35:49] and it was a little pain, but oh my, is it light. I helped upgrade to a multi-protocol transmitter so I can fly my existing planes, but also Spectrum, looking at a jumper, need more channels and easier programming. Now to get to his question. He says, I'm building a Skeeter 36-inch from plans. It is a profile 3D type of plane. I'm not going to hold that against you, John. I hope I didn't just upset him. The wing went together really well, but seems to have an ease of twisting

[36:17] as it is drawn. I have not covered it yet and am contemplating ways to eliminate the lack of resistance to twist any ideas thanks again and appreciate the podcast john yeah so hi john hope i didn't offend you with my ugly profile airplane comment that's just my opinion and having said that i have flown a few of those so it's not that I hate them. I don't hate them. I just like my airplanes to look like airplanes. Now with that out of the way. And so by the way,

[36:50] welcome back to the hobby. It's so good to hear from folks who have either had to get out of the hobby for, life reasons or whatever, to find that they come back to the hobby, because that's my story too. I mean, you take a little breaks here and there, but I always seem to come back. So I love hearing that other guys and girls do that too. And I'm glad to hear that the Flysky is working for you too. I've had great experience with it so far.

[37:16] And I agree, the programming is a little wonky. I wish I had used YouTube, which I will from this point forward, because I'm sure other people have encountered the same issues that I've encountered while trying to program it. But yeah, for $18, I'd say you got one heck of a deal. So as far as the ease of twisting in your wing goes, that's a pretty

[37:35] small airplane. It's probably designed to be built very lightly. I mean, if the twisting is really concerning you before covering it, I would say you could sheet it with balsa. you could get some, maybe some 16th inch sheet balsa and create some skins, like on our making a wing skin how-to that we put out there. And then sheet the wing, you could do that. Kind of like the way you sheeted your dualist wing, Ron, by just sheeting kind of the

[38:06] leading edge and a little bit of the trailing edge. That will add some lateral torsional stiffness. And it will save a little bit of weight. It will, yeah, rather than sheeting the whole wing. Yeah, for sure. And a little bit of money. And yeah, balsa is expensive right now. So anything we can do to save money, like in our saving money episode,

[38:31] so much the better. So that's one way you could do it. You could try adding some sheer webbing to the fronts of the spars. And that's basically cutting a piece of balsa to fit in between the ribs with the grain running up and down vertically, glued to the fronts of the spars that will why running up and down like so in the go the wouldn't it go horizontal so a lot of people well I'm not gonna say a lot of people sometimes people get it wrong

[38:55] and they they put their shear webbing in with the grain running along the length of the wing and that's that's not. I mean, you're not doing any harm. So what I just said, I got it wrong. Well, I was trying to put it nice. I don't want to put anybody down or discourage anybody from building, but the grain should run vertically on your shear webbing. And the reason is they were resisting a shear force. So if you can imagine, you've got a spar on the top of your

[39:22] wing and a spar on the bottom of your wing. And when your wing flexes, like when you pull out of a dive, let's say, your wing wants to flex. It wants to bend along the length of it. So when it does that, the spars tend to want to move in opposite directions relative to each other. And what resists that motion is that vertical grain that's resisting that shearing motion.

[39:48] So if you can imagine grabbing a sheet of balsa, one hand on top and one hand on bottom running the length, if you try to shear that apart, if the grain is running the same direction as your shear force, it'll be easier to shear it apart than if the grain was all running vertically. Does that make sense? That makes absolute sense now. Hopefully, that was explained well enough for everybody else to understand. Hopefully. But anyway, John, you could add

[40:14] shear webbing, and that will add some torsional resistance. Not a lot, but will certainly strengthen your wing, especially on a 3D type airplane that's going to pull a lot of Gs. Not a bad idea, if it doesn't already have them. But now this is a pretty small airplane. It is. So really, covering alone would add a lot of strength, wouldn't it? I think so. I mean, you'd be surprised how much having that tight drum material on the top and bottom pulling is going to strengthen that up. Yeah.

[40:41] And I believe that in this particular situation john i think if you cover your wing i think that's going to add the necessary stiffness to to accomplish the designer of the airplane's goals of keeping the wing torsionally stiff so at 36 inches it's pretty small the wing loading on a on an airplane that size is going to be pretty light especially on a 3d type airplane because it's not going to weigh very much probably.

[41:08] So I don't think the twisting is going to be really all that big of an issue, especially once it's, like Ron said, once it's covered. Yeah, I think covering is probably the best way to do it. Just try it out and I think that's going to solve more of your problem than you expect. Yep, yep. And I think adding the extra weight of either the sheeting or the shear webbing, if it's not already designed into the airplane, adding that weight is just going to add to the wing loading,

[41:35] and the airplane may not fly as well as the designer intended. So I think in this case— It'll have to fly faster. It'll have to fly a different angle of attack and stuff to make up for the weight so exactly yeah i think you're best just following the plan i think just john i think just covering the wing getting that covering nice and tight i think that's gonna that's gonna do everything it needs to do to keep your keep your wing torsionally stiff okay ready

[41:58] to move on yeah next one this is from seth seth says easier hey r and Tom, I am a new listener to your podcast. I just came across it looking for some info about RC planes. Well, that's what we're here for. That's why we're here. I'm new to the hobby, even though it was a childhood dream. Just life and responsibilities kept it from happening. Yeah. Yeah. I think that happens a lot of like everybody's story kind of thing. But I mean, not to get away from Seth's question.

[42:24] It's so easy to get into the hobby nowadays. Yeah. it really is. I agree. Like the barriers that were in place cost when I was young are just really, I mean, it's… And technology. And technology. Yeah. It's so easy to get in. You were lamenting about that the other day, but yeah. I think it's opened up the hobby to a lot more people that it wouldn't have opened it up to without it. Yep, yep. Sorry, didn't mean to derail the question from Seth.

[42:53] Anyway, he says, but I'm 35 jumping in at full force and listening to you guys is helping me make up for lost time with your knowledge and experience. Oh, well, that's wonderful. I'm glad that we can help. Yeah, in some small way. Yeah. Hey, if we've saved somebody $50 on their entry into the hobby, I think we've done our job. Really, the only thing we have to say is pre-flight. Pre-flight. Pre-flight. I mean, that should be how we open every show.

[43:22] Hey, download our checklist off of our website, laminate it, and keep it in your flight box. Pre-flight. Yeah. But anyway, so keep doing what you're doing. You guys are doing an awesome job, and I really enjoy each episode. Seth. Thank you, Seth. We appreciate that kind of feedback. Yeah, I appreciate that. So he reached out to us on the contact us form on the website. Okay. So if you guys want to do that too, go do that. Yeah.

[43:49] Seth, welcome to the hobby. I hobby so happy you've joined joined our ranks enough we're happy you're flying yeah yeah and hopefully we can we can convince someone else to get in the hobby too yeah tell your friends tell all your friends everyone it's a great hobby I mean there's I mean what's not to like about it you're right we've talked about it before you learned so much all right next up is matthias

[44:11] right yeah i'll go ahead and read this one if that's okay have at it welcome or hi ron and tom thank you for your awesome podcast and greetings from sweden sweden is that why you wanted to take it because it's, because it's from Sweden. I think that's cool. Swedish meatballs? No. No. Since I started flying model airplanes last summer, I've been borrowing a Spectrum DX7. All right, good radio. Generation 2 from a really nice guy at the field who is helping me with everything.

[44:42] I think it's a great radio, but sadly I've had some problems with it. First, the component that handled the sound and simulator stuff stopped working. Well, that's a bummer. The guy I got it from fixed it, and I got it back for free. I made two flights with my UMX, and now the throttle stick has problems. If I push the throttle stick all the way up, the transmitter thinks it's somewhere between 70 and 80 percent. He says different numbers every time.

[45:11] If I push the stick somewhere, the transmitter will slowly go there. I don't know what I'm doing that my transmitter doesn't like. The worst thing I can think of that I have done are these. He says the transmitter battery is at six and a half volts and it's a two cell. So he's under 3.3 volts per cell. 2S LiPo. Yeah. Okay. Yep. So that could be part of it. That's a problem. He says using it in minus 10 degrees Celsius, 14 degrees Fahrenheit.

[45:40] So that's less of a problem, but. Well, it is less of a problem, but LiPo batteries don't like freezing temperatures. I mean, they'll work, but don't let them sit out for long periods of time in freezing temperatures. And he says he stores it in sunlight. Now, I'm not sure if he means… I guess that means that the sunlight will keep it above 14 degrees and keep the battery from freezing. Well, yeah. So, he says, is this transmitter just a bad unit,

[46:06] or am I doing something very wrong? He says, what are the don'ts with transmitters? That's actually a really good question. We could probably cover that in a whole episode. I have planned to buy a DX6, but now I don't know after this. And he says, Matthias. First of all, hello, Matthias. It's good to have you contact us all the way from Sweden. I think that's awesome. And what a nice guy at your club field to loan

[46:35] you his DX7 radio. That's a really great radio. I used to own a DX7. Before I upgraded to an IF55. The first generation. Mine was a little bit older. But I had really, really great luck with mine. And I don't think you'll, like, if you want to proceed to buy a DX6, I really don't think you're going to be unhappy with that. Spectrum produces a really quality radio. But Futaba does, too. I have nothing against Futaba. I just fly spectrum. But

[47:07] getting back to the guy that loaned you the transmitter, what a great guy. And that's one thing I love about the hobby. There's always someone willing to lend a hand or let you borrow stuff to get you going. I think that's awesome. So I'd say starting off, I'd say your battery voltage is probably going to be your biggest, the biggest thing that we've got going on here. What do you think? I would agree with

[47:33] that. Like I run a two cell LiPo in my transmitter too, and it usually hovers around eight to 8.2 volts. Yeah. Yeah. When we get to low voltage like that, things get wonky, to steal your terminology. I like wonky. I don't like wonky, but I like the word. I like using it. I actually learned that one from Lori. But yeah, at low voltage, your transmitter is going to do probably some weird things.

[48:13] Something you can check, though, you can sort of kind of check the condition of the gimbals by watching the servo monitor screen as you're actually moving the gimbals. And what that means is, as you move, let's say we're talking the aileron stick. If you move it, right to left, you can actually watch what the computer inside the transmitter is interpreting your movement,

[48:31] and it'll show it right on the screen. So that would be one kind of check you could look to see if maybe something inside is wrong. But my guess is probably your biggest issue is the voltage, I really believe. Yeah, charge it and see what happens. If not, I think there's spectrum service centers all over the place yeah just do a google search and right and find out where the nearest one is and give them a holler yeah and and spectrum is

[48:50] and really really good about service yeah we've talked about that yeah i can't tell you i mean just a few times that we've sent stuff in and and really only been charged shipping oh you didn't well i mean i had to pay for shipping to get there. Right. And then, and then. Yeah, but there was no charge for shipping back or anything. Yeah, received it back in the mail at no charge. So, even for stuff that was. Which we will say,

[49:13] by the way, is not necessarily the norm. So, don't. Right. Don't do that and get charged and get upset with us for saying that. That's just how it happened to us. That's for, but I mean, that there's, their service is, is pretty, pretty good and top-notch and pretty quick turnaround, too. Now, granted, we have the advantage of living fairly close to their service center, but even still, the turnaround at their shop was pretty quick. I agree. So,

[49:37] yeah, in the meantime, I would charge up that battery, make sure it's fully charged, which we'll talk about on one of our how-tos how to charge a lipo battery coming soon but charge that battery and then check out that servo monitor screen i will say it probably depends on that one though because i know with my old generation one dx8 for charging you just charge it with the the wall wart charger

[50:01] that came with it there's nothing special to do on that. It handles all the balancing and stuff. Designed to be charged with that. I'm sure that's the same for this second gen DX7. But other than the voltage, storing it in direct sunlight, well, I mean, that's obviously something you probably don't want to do. But that, I think, will affect more the outside appearance of the radio than anything inside, as long as it's not getting hot.

[50:25] Yeah. If it's in a car with the windows rolled up in 100 degree weather yeah that you probably don't want to store it that way no and it depends too i think like what do you mean stored in sunlight you're not going to leave it in sunlight for 12 hours a day it would have to be in a case or it would be under shade of some sort. So, yeah, I don't know. I mean, it depends what he means, but don't leave it in the sun forever. And using it in the cold shouldn't be an issue.

[50:52] short periods of use in the cold weather. Like, I mean, every January 1st we try to fly and sometimes it's pretty cold, maybe not 14 degrees, but definitely cold. And for short periods, I think the cold is okay. As long as when you're storing it, you're storing it inside at room temperature, ideally. I agree. So, yeah. Matthias, welcome to the hobby, and we hope you have continued success, and we hope you get your radio issues figured out. All right.

[51:20] And the last one we have isn't a question, but I thought it was very interesting, the comment, so I wanted to read it. It's from Ron, and he says, Ron and Tom, I'm cleaning out boxes and came across model airplane magazines from my high school days, attached to an article from the October 1968 issue of American Aircraft Modeler on the Ford Trimotor. Much has been written on the Trimotor, so I doubt this will add much, but I thought I would send it along anyway. Cool.

[51:49] As interesting as the articles are, the ads that surround it are a lot of fun too like the four channel citizenship proportional system for four hundred dollars that's four hundred dollars in 1968 dollars that's way back when yeah says other companies were selling for less so citizenship must have been top of the line. I put the $400 on an online inflation calculator, and it said it would be worth $2,970 in today's dollars, or 7.4 times as

[52:12] much, which makes sense. A $3,500 family car then would sell for $26,000 now. That's about right. Okay, so I'll be honest. If I had to spend almost three thousand dollars on my radio alone i would not be in the hobby goes back to what i said earlier i mean the some of the roadblocks that were in the way to get in the hobby back then were in this case cost and that's a lot of money yeah i like yeah i can't believe that i can't i can't imagine spend i mean like

[52:41] 400 even today on a radio is a lot of money to me it is even in today's dollars back then that's crazy that's about what i spent on my dxa when i bought it yeah but me too that was not with inflation almost three thousand dollars no well i remember a little off topic but my dad when he bought the first vcr we had the vcr was a thousand dollars like and that was i think 80s yeah so that's actual actual money and the first calculator

[53:07] he bought i think he said it was like eight or nine hundred bucks oh my gosh and that was buying for like 50 cents at the at the gas station nowadays now they're built into every single thing that you can get i mean i think and i think he said that was back in the 60s when they first came out so yeah i can't imagine just things have come down so much in price it's amazing really which is good because now we get to have more planes and have more fun

[53:30] with them true anything else you want to talk about tom no that's that's pretty much all i had to cover tonight awesome well then until next time i'm ron i'm tom good night good night Good night. Good night. Thank you.