Ep 88: Kitbashing, and Listener Questions

[00:00:00] Hello everyone welcome to the RC Plane Lab podcast what’s that look for well I just that.

[00:00:11] Was very smooth intro. I liked it. You’re, you’re on and I’m Tom. Okay, let’s get this party started. You okay there, I’m good how you doing that was a. Really that was a good intro. I was, I liked it.

[00:00:24] Oh well your face was you were like wincing like no I was smiling I was like I was thinking to.

[00:00:30] Myself it was really smooth but I ruined it with my look compared so I just can’t look at you from.

[00:00:34] Now on when you do the intro whether I like it or not anyway any whoozle let’s move on hello.

[00:00:39] Everybody: hi, what are we talking about today? So today I was thinking you had a really good idea with kit bashing. We could talk about that a little bit. So like, hey, your kit sucks well. No, I don’t mean putting a kit down verbally. I’m talking about modifying a kit in some way, making it your.

[00:00:59] Own. Oh yeah, kit bashing. Very good idea to talk about there, tommy. No, it was your idea to talk about. Actually, it wasn’t even my idea, so we got an email. This is it’s. It’s funny how timing works on this stuff, so I have been working diligently. Let’s say, yeah, you like that word? I do like that on my cavalier. Yes, it’s ready to fly now. Awesome, we’ve talked about it before and I wanted to kind of get on to finishing it and getting it ready to go out and fly, because I haven’t made it.

[00:01:32] Yet, even though it’s been like six years in the making. So we, whatever episode we talked about, we ended up getting an email from a friend of ours- well, friend of the show, tony. And tony said: I have recently found your podcast. As I’m going through the episodes, I’ve heard you refer to your SIG cavalier with retracts. Do you have any pictures of how you installed your gear, which I do, and I will email those out and actually post them? Probably post them on the forums too, sure way.

[00:02:05] We have all this kind of stuff together so we can- we can look at them. Good idea. But he said I’ve thought about kit bashing the still available cavalier to create a pseudo SIG commander. This was a kit I always wanted while growing up but was never able to get. Now it’s unavailable unless I’m willing to spend way too much to buy one on ebay. Yeah, I’m hoping that your gear modification may mimic the commander’s gear setup and I’m curious how well it worked. It seems to have worked okay so far. I haven’t flown it right, so that will be the final test, but I think that’s going to be good. So

[00:02:41] With him wanting to know about kit bashing and us kind of talking about building kits and what kits we had in the last episode and stuff. Yes, I think that would be a good thing to talk about. So what is kit?

[00:02:54] Bashing. Yeah, well, so a lot of folks may not be familiar with the term. So basically, like I said, it’s it’s taking a kit that was designed by a designer and not building it as per the manual or the and or the plans. Yeah, modifying it in some way that was not designed into it. Like, for instance, the cavalier was not designed for retracts and you added retracts or changing the shape of a tail. Maybe it wasn’t designed that way. You changed it for some reason. So that’s what I call kit bashing.

[00:03:26] So do you have a certain level of changes that have to be made in order to call it kit bashing, because you’re talking about, if you change the shape of a tail, I we’re modifying the kit.

[00:03:40] To suit your preferences or needs. So, any kind of chain? Yeah, I think so. Okay, yeah, like when I hear kit bashing, I think like major modifications, which that also falls into kit bashing I don’t think of. Like with the trash. Can Telemaster we change the shape of the tail on it, because I like the look of.

[00:03:59] It better. It’s a degree of kit bashing, I would say. And besides that, that wasn’t it. Yeah, that’s ARF bashing, to get technical, which is a whole other level of bashing. But anyway, so that’s what I, that’s what I call. Yeah, I, anything that you’ve done to the, to the kit. You pull a piece of wood out of the box and, instead of gluing it together as per the manual, you change it in some way and then glue it together. That’s what I would call, and that can be. That can be a very wide range.

[00:04:30] Obviously like you touched on can be a wide range of modifications okay yeah well let’s talk about.

[00:04:37] The cavalier so the cavalier yeah because in your words you did a fair amount of kit bashing that is.

[00:04:42] Kit bashed is that how you I would say yeah it’s a yeah it was a bit bashed yeah you kit bashed it.

[00:04:48] So we’ve talked about the original cavalier I had. That was the first nitro plane I ever bought. Spent 80 bucks on it, got it home and the whole fuel system was broken. I had to repair it.

[00:05:03] That was a lot of good learning experience. When I bought it I was told it was ready to go. Got it home, put fuel in it. I was still young, like I said, it was my second airplane. Fuel went everywhere. I was like, huh, is this supposed to happen? Like, is this how it’s supposed to go, or should the fuel not be coming out of the fuselage? So the thing with the that cavalier too, though.

[00:05:30] I don’t know if you’re familiar with them. The tank is built into the front of the airplane. There’s no hatch, there’s no access, there’s nothing right. So that is where I learned to fix my first airplane. When that one got messed up, we won’t necessarily talk about how that happened and got rid of it. Don’t need to. Oh really no, that’s like an opening for you to. I know it’s a new year, water bash me.

[00:05:54] It’s a new year and I’m not gonna do those things anymore. You’re just gonna trailer that. Huh, okay, cool, I’m not touching it. You can, you can try to. You can try to provoke me all you want. I’m not. I’m not gonna take the bait, provoke you to do what to do what you’re wanting me to do. I’m not gonna do it.

[00:06:13] Okay, so anyway, when I got to this cavalier- after that one got messed up- I decided I wanted another cavalier. The kits are still available. Like tony said, you can still get them from SIG and that’s been a few years ago when I did this. Now I always wanted a plane.

[00:06:35] With retractable gear when I started this build. This is embarrassing. When I started this build, I had like five airplanes and none of them were retractable gear yet, so I thought: why not build it the way I want to build it? I didn’t know anything about kit bashing. I didn’t know anything about what I was doing at all, and so it’s. It’s taken me several years to get it to where it is now, because it you work on things for a little bit, it’s pretty slick, and then things get pushed off to the side, and then you get back to it and finally make some more progress. Well, the

[00:07:10] Thing is you learn a lot in those time periods of time too that is true and then you kind of go back.

[00:07:15] And they help- yeah, they help- go back and fix what you did. That’s what I had to do, but they help move the project along, but I so I wanted to finally get it to the point where I could fly it- and it was a simple like it was- to the point where all I need to do is check the center of gravity, balance it and call it done, like I had everything built for the: the battery tray, all that kind of stuff. However,

[00:07:40] When I did the CG check, it turned out to balance it. I needed 11 ounces of weight in the nose. Now that’s a lot of weight just to have sitting up front for no, for not doing anything for you. And since this airplane is nowhere near stock, I didn’t know how it was going to end up without having the plan to follow exactly. Does that make sense? Yep, like extra servos were in there, just built differently. That’s one of the problems with kit bashing is there’s a lot that goes into.

[00:08:14] Figuring out what you’re going to do. Yeah, it’s almost like you’re your own engineer. Almost well, you have to be depending on a level extent, exactly since it was electric that weighs different than the nitro motor. You usually can find different batteries that’ll fit in there and maybe get some more weight if you need. But I didn’t want to buy a bigger battery either, because I already had a 4s 5200, which is big enough for that. That’s a scary size battery. Yeah, big enough to

[00:08:48] Yeah, I know what you’re saying- to go off and really do some damage. And the first time when I had it put together, I used a plastic nose gear in it. That was, I think. Yeah, see, I think that was one of the things that turned me off of doing it for a while, because I got to the point where just it didn’t work very well. Well, I got to the point where I could actually go outside and do taxi tests and stuff and I could never get it to go straight like that gear was it ended up? Actually, the gear was broken, which I didn’t realize- the one of the plastic parts that was supposed to keep it straight.

[00:09:21] Had a crack in it which you only saw when it was under stress- under stress, yeah. So I don’t remember if you gave me or if I bought. I know I bought, but I know you gave me and I maybe I lost one- I don’t know what happened to it- a new nose gear. That’s metal, yeah, and that made a big difference actually.

[00:09:38] Yeah, that one’s mine, by the way, is it? Yeah, I’m still short one. Do you remember like I didn’t I buy one? I thought you did, but who knows. Well, if I find it, it’s not like I need one any time.

[00:09:48] Well, if I find it, I’ll give it back to you. Okay, I have no plans on doing another tricycle with gear anyway, but anyway. So I got that taken off and I- because of that I had to tear everything off like completely from the nose forward- had to be redone, which is also disheartening when you think you’re finished with something and you’re not right. The new gear, while the bolts were mounted, went or were the same. The actual push rod was nowhere near the same.

[00:10:19] Yeah, same dimension, the same area, the push rod for the actuation, right, yeah, and it was just a pain really to do so. I ended up learning. As you said earlier, as you go through things you learn more. I was able to actually get rid of a servo and run a single servo, or single servo for the steering and the rudder, which beforehand I had two servos on there, which that plane had way too many servos.

[00:10:51] On it that I mean it was just a rat’s nest of wire, I mean, like really. So I was able to get in there and kind of get everything taken care of and make it look a lot nicer. However, like when I first built it, we didn’t have the laser cutter. I didn’t really know about building hatches. I had never done one of those before. So when I cut the top off, like where I was going to put the battery, I want to make a hatch, since I had everything off anyway. That took a lot of kind of figuring out.

[00:11:25] To do and I ended up making three separate hatches until I got it done the way I really liked it, but it turned out pretty good. Four magnets hold on. That it’s just. It looks nice compared to what I had on there before. But one of the one of the biggest things I learned, by the way, is with a laser cutter there is a curve. Oh really like well, it does consume. Yeah, I kind of figured that it would be a little bit, but I didn’t realize like how much it was. So with the magnets I got,

[00:11:56] I wanted them to be recessed in to the, to the hatch themselves. So the magnet actually measured. I think it was 235 000, it’s like 0.235. So my original hatch I cut at 0.230, Figuring 5 000 would be would be plenty. But it was so loose, like really that I was. I was concerned glue would not hold that in over time. Like there was no fit to it whatsoever, it was just floating around in there. So I ended up cutting a bunch of different holes at different sizes to figure out.

[00:12:30] What I needed. Yeah, 220 000 is what I ended up cutting it at, and it was a nice tight fit, so the glue held it in. So I’ve now learned. I have a little bit of a curve that I have to deal with, yep, and the other thing, with the laser too, that I come to learn- it cuts in like a v, so the top is wider than the bottom. Okay, good to know. That is good to know. Yeah, yep, just things, gee, whiz, yeah, so anyway. So I got.

[00:13:02] All that done, I’m actually happy with how the whole thing turned out. I ended up making a battery tray on the laser cutter and all that kind of stuff too. I thought I would be kind of smooth and label the battery tray. So I put on there SIG cavalier 4s 5000 milliamp hour battery. Didn’t realize until I had everything glued in. I don’t use a 5000 milliamp hour battery, I use a 5200. Well, like I said, you learn as you go, learn as you go. I have a plane now that is absolutely incorrect with what it says, but

[00:13:37] That’s okay plans for it say it should weigh in at five and a half to six pounds which I think you did.

[00:13:44] Pretty well on the weight honestly I do too I am considering the amount of work and what you’ve added.

[00:13:50] To it. I’m, oddly enough, proud of myself. You should be six pounds two and a half ounces- yeah, and this is the part I’m very proud of myself- for not a single quarter ounce of extra weight anywhere in there to balance it out. Yeah, that’s perfect. So it is all balanced just basically by what is on there. Yeah.

[00:14:10] So I think- and that’s a really great example of kit bashing- I mean, this airplane was not designed to be electric, no. It was not designed to have retractable gear, no, and it was.

[00:14:24] I guess that’s it, but. But those are very significant changes from the design. Yeah, yeah, because the hatch ended up going where the fuel tank would be and that’s usually built in completely to it. So, yeah, I mean it’s kit bashing, I guess can be fun. And I kind of realized, as we sat down before we started recording this, we were talking: I’ve never built a kit to plants. Yeah, that well, you’ve not built a lot.

[00:14:52] Of kits? No, I haven’t. However, yeah, that’s an interesting. That’s an interesting tidbit of information, because I’ve built lots of kits and have built relatively few and deviated- yeah, deviated from.

[00:15:06] The plans. So, like my duelist, although I don’t know, would you consider that kit? I know those well. I cut the parts so that would still be like a kit. No, those are plans built. Those are not kits. Yeah, so plans bashing, I’m like what would you call it like? Seriously, because that duelist is nowhere near.

[00:15:23] What a duelist is supposed to know absolutely true I agree with you on that I mean I’m not sure I would.

[00:15:29] Call it kit bashing if you saw it you would still think duelist yeah oh yeah oh that’s an interesting.

[00:15:35] Duelist, because it’s still a duelist, yeah. So I don’t know, I mean that’s, I don’t know. What do you guys think? Listeners, if you’re out there still listening, I wondered who you were talking to. I was like if, yeah, if you are a fan of the show and you’ve been watching you, we built some duels sometime back and now Ron built an electric one. I built a per the plans, yeah, per the plans. It’s not bashed is. Would you consider Ron’s electric duels a kit bash or a plans bad? What would you consider?

[00:16:06] It I’d be interested in knowing yeah because that is now a tail dragger and electric with twin electric.

[00:16:13] Yeah, and pretty fast. And that was a learning curve too, because whenever you deviate from the plans, how many wings did you build? Three. Well, it was a learning. I did build three wings, but that’s not. That wasn’t because of what I was doing at the plans, that was because, if I remember right things, I was doing wrong, right. Yes, I mean, like I completely forgot to put dihedral in the second one and it’s like: well,

[00:16:37] Crap, I need to. Oh well, I guess I did deviate from the plans slightly. I don’t have as much dihedral as the plans called out, remember? Oh, you rebel I yeah, wow, but it flies awesome. So I’m not unhappy about that decision. Yeah, we’ll call it a decision. Oh, is that an accident? It’s an accident. Oh, I didn’t know that. Yeah, I didn’t set the. I know that. I think we talked about it briefly, but I did not set the root rib at the correct angle, so I got half that, the dihedral that I was supposed to.

[00:17:08] But it flies awesome so I’m not I’m gonna say I meant to do that well I had zero dihedral on my.

[00:17:14] Second one and I bet it would fly perfect probably, but I knew I wanted to kind of have a little bit of correction to it. Stability, yeah, dynamics, sure, but the so between the two I’ve done not to plans. Like I said, the hardest thing has been CG for me. Yeah, like that’s a pain. My original plan with the dualist was two batteries, like two completely separate electrical systems. Added too much weight, quickly discovered that wasn’t gonna, because each battery was over a pound, yeah, and there was just

[00:17:48] No way to really balance it with that, and it actually flies really awesome on one battery, yeah, and you get pretty good flight time out of it. I would say I was I’m I’m happy with how it turned out, but, yeah, that’s so. That’s kit bashing. Well, that was not a lot on kit bashing, but I guess that’s all we can get. Huh, well, I thought you’d have some input. I mean, like I don’t know you don’t well, like I said, I, I haven’t, you should kit bash your next airplane, then I don’t know well, my next.

[00:18:18] Airplane is probably going to be a cub. I mean, how do you kit bash a cub? Clip the wing. Well, the kit I have you can build it either way. So I guess I could make it into a two-piece wing. Kit bash it that way, build up the center section solid and then put so. That’s supposed to be a, it’s a one-piecer, yeah.

[00:18:35] See that I think that was the biggest turnaround with making me not want to consider building, like finishing the one that I had, yeah, but one piece wings are so hard to move, I mean they’re, they’re just hard to fit. Like I said, the one I think the one I don’t know what. When you say hard to fit, you mean hard to like, hard to fit in a car, sorry, hard to transport. No, I got you because I think the one I was building was 78 inch. That’s a long. It’s, yeah, single wing, especially when

[00:19:03] You don’t have a, a larger vehicle? I know I don’t, but yeah, I could kit bash the cub, I guess, make a two-piece wing somehow. There you go, maybe I’ll do that. Maybe that’ll be my first real kit bash. You should, I’d be proud of you, you should do that, okay, well, there we go. I might need some laser cut parts then, hey, let me know, we have one, okay. Okay, all right, let’s move on to something more.

[00:19:27] Light-hearted listener questions: what do you think? Sure, let’s have at it, all right, so let’s see. Oh, before we do that, though, I want a little reminder. Don’t forget: we have a build night coming up. If you want to be a part of it, it’s for patrons only. First one, I think, like I said, is patrons only, is good to kind of keep the numbers down a little bit. Let us learn what we’re doing, see how.

[00:19:51] It goes yeah we’re gonna make mistakes so we don’t want our audience huge well and it’s also.

[00:19:57] Our way to say thank you. Yeah, like we said last episode, if you’ve ever been a patron and no longer a patron, if you’ve ever given any kind of contribution to us or anything like that and you still want to be part of it, perfect, reach out to us. We will gladly include you, right? If you have not been a patron and you want to be part of this, go sign up now, because it’s going to be coming on pretty quick. Yeah, end of shucks. Where am I going? September, end of february, so it’s coming up soon.

[00:20:29] Coming up soon and we will be making or putting together our goldberg chipmunks man I feel off.

[00:20:36] Tonight, like I just you’ve had better nights, okay, well, probably because I’m letting you do all the talking tonight. So, well, yeah, because you have nothing, but I will. Well, like I said, I haven’t done a lot of kit bashing, so, but I’ll take all the questions I guess awesome, all of them. I will sit back. So, yeah, if you’re not a patron and you want to be part of the build night, it just it’s, it’s easy to do. Just get on the patreon and sign up to be one of our patrons. There’s a link, I think in a lot of our youtube videos, right, I think. So, yeah, so and there, if you’ve- I don’t remember where-

[00:21:08] I put them there’s links there and their places go to the website rcplanelab.Com that’s your home.

[00:21:12] For everything: RC Plane Lab: yeah, you can even get swag there, by the way, yeah, or order it through there, yeah, yeah, which I need to do, another order. My sweatshirt’s not looking so great, I need to get another one. You need to take care of it, I do. I just wear it a lot well, anyway. So yeah, and contact us.

[00:21:30] Like: if you have questions, if you have show ideas, we are. We look forward to hearing from our listeners. I feel great every time I see an email come through or a text message come through. I’m like: ah.

[00:21:44] Excitement, so something new to put on the show, yeah, yeah, something we haven’t talked about yet. Okay, so the first email- actually a series of emails from matt- says: hi, Ron, and Tom, Tom and Ron. No dispute on who’s getting named first here. He says: I would like a lot to thank you for your podcast. It is one of the most complete and accurate podcast about rc planes out there. Lots of interesting ones, but you still are my favorite one. Got a lot of time on the commute to and from work. Well, thank you. Yeah, that’s. That’s really high praise, because there are some

[00:22:17] Some interesting ones out there. There are so, he says. Most of my experience is from foam planes, flight test style and lately my great planes, escapade 46, which he’s flying electric. He says he crashed pretty hard on a treetop. Engine flew at least 100 meters from the crash. He says it’s been repaired- not so pretty, but it flies again. His question: that’s all that matters by the.

[00:22:42] Way that’s exactly right it doesn’t matter how pretty your plane is if you can fly it and you.

[00:22:46] Enjoy it. That’s what matters. That’s the important part. Okay, and his question? He says balsa is. Oh boy, here we go. Balsa is quite expensive and hard to get here in canada. Hey, matt, I’m gonna tell you right now, it’s hard to get everywhere right now. Yeah, as we have, and it’s expensive here. And it’s expensive probably not as much as there. He says I have access to a wood lot and different species of wood- cedar, spruce, fur- and was thinking about using a sawmill to do some super thin slices like a veneer of wood. He says it works well and using those slices of wood instead of balsa to build my

[00:23:20] Own diy planes. He says, yes, I have a problem, like Ron, that I want to do everything myself on the cnc and with the 3d printer. Of course, yeah, and I don’t disagree. I mean, if you can do it yourself, why not? It’s cheaper, usually it is, and it’s the satisfaction of. That’s the word I was going to use. I’m sorry.

[00:23:37] Just as satisfactory more satisfying even than building a kit he says since I have those.

[00:23:44] Materials handy and available. I would like to know if it would be suitable to use for building a 40 size ugly stick. He says four stroke glow, 61 asp- which I have no experience with glow at all, which easy peasy, just watch our videos right- and a two meter wingspan twin, 70 millimeter edf airliner. Or should I stick to foam and fiberglass for the airliner? Thanks again, and keep entertaining us. You guys are great, matt. And then he has a follow-on. He says: I have another question I forgot to mention. As a side project with my dad, I received a rubber band powered balsa plane. Many

[00:24:17] Years ago and his kit is complete. I also found on ebay a complete kit of the same model. He says it’s a comet aaron kerchief. Oh, that’s a fun airplane actually, and my project was to build it and convert it to an electric flyer and get my dad to do it. At the same time he just started flying ready to fly park zone cub sub 250 grand plane. I’m not familiar with that one. I think I

[00:24:41] Think is that similar to the champ yeah okay but it’s so yeah it’s a good park zone I mean it’s a nice.

[00:24:46] Small. Yeah, it’d be good flying airplane, obviously. Is there any place where I should reinforce the plane? He’s doing an electric conversion on a rubber powered airplane and have any of you guys made those kind of conversions? Greatly appreciated. Thanks, matt. Okay, so the first question about the, the alternative- we’ll just call it alternative- building materials. I think that’s a fantastic idea, especially now. Who knows what balsa, the availability of balsa is going to be in the future? If we can find alternative things to build with, I think that’s great. I think I replied via email.

[00:25:17] To matt, kind of describing what we were thinking about doing with some of the trimotor stuff, with the, the aluminum stuff, aluminum composite panel, yeah, and then using that sort of as a, as a base, yeah, building off of that. So I think, if you can, if you can find something that’s, that’s alternative to balsa. I think I think it’s great. My only problem is like and

[00:25:44] That depends on what you’re talking like veneers. The veneers I’m used to very flimsy, yeah, very flimsy and not very strong. Yeah, like, usually they’re made to get glued onto something right and they’re the pretty face on something on top of this structure. Usually, yeah, right, I mean, I guess, if you think you can get it to where it’s strong enough, like I don’t know woods very well, I don’t know spruce compared to oak, I just I don’t know their properties, like I could see building lighter with stronger.

[00:26:19] Material, like if you have balsa, versus like a piece of oak. You’re not going to have to use the same size for the same strength, right, because oak is obviously stronger, right? But I don’t know what is.

[00:26:31] It? Yeah, per pound, is it? Weight? Does it compare? I don’t know. Yeah, I think it’s a great. I think it’s a great idea and I would definitely experiment with it, like start with something.

[00:26:41] Small, like maybe a glider or something, or better yet, just build a stabilizer, build something. Yeah, there you go, just to get practice with it and see how it works. That’s actually a really good idea. It’s hard to say how the glues are going to stick to it, how I mean I know it’s wood and all that kind of stuff, but it’s gonna. It’s just going to be different than building with balsa.

[00:27:02] Yeah just understand that the process may be different right but yeah it’s going to be harder.

[00:27:07] So I guess what would be, what would be nice to try if you can, if you have balsa, build the exact same thing two ways. Follow the plans with your balsa stick kit, whatever construction you’re supposed to do, right for something simple, like I said, rudder, elevate, it doesn’t matter what. Do the exact same thing in your own style, with your own materials and see how that turns out. Weigh it, break them both. See how much stronger one is, or, yeah, or what it is. It’s kind of like what we do.

[00:27:40] With the falcata stuff. I mean exactly, it’s heavier, but we can make the- like the ribs and stuff- thinner, so it might end up being a little bit heavier than the. The balsa is but a heck of a lot cheaper and easier to source. Well, at the time it was so far. But yeah, yeah, it is going to be a little heavier in the long run. But, depending on what you’re doing, sometimes you can afford a little bit more weight. I mean.

[00:28:06] As, as modelers, we use, we use balsa and have used balsa for years, because of its qualities, yeah, and we’ve not found anything yet to match them. But right, I’m a fan of trying something new, so, yeah,

[00:28:22] Especially if resources are limited exactly I mean you build with what you have I agree with that.

[00:28:27] Completely yep, so and so for his second question, he says he’s doing the, the electric powered conversion of a rubber band powered model, and he says any, is there any place?

[00:28:41] That I should reinforce the plane yeah are those generally built strong enough to withstand the.

[00:28:48] Different forces that you’re going to have with rc exactly? No, the short answer is no, okay, they’re not going to have, obviously, a firewall to mount electric motor to. They’re probably not designed to handle the speeds that an electric power plant is going to impart to that airframe. So there are some areas that I would concentrate on. Obviously, the firewall in the nose where the motor is going to be mounted. That needs to be strong enough to support the power output of the motor.

[00:29:15] Wouldn’t that be fairly strong though to withstand the pressure of the rubber band it depends I mean.

[00:29:23] Like, even though when, like- I don’t know if you’ve ever flown a rubber powered bottle- I have not- I did like a lot many, many, many years ago as a kid, like the little comet gliders and the comet rubber powered ones, and the later it was the gillow’s kits, I think.

[00:29:36] It was that’s what they’re yeah my kid put together a gillow’s kit but I’ve never done but even.

[00:29:41] Some of the contest rubber. Yeah, even though you wind it, it gets tight. It doesn’t necessarily pull so much as it just get. It’s weird how the power is stored in a rubber band. It’s more torsional than yeah. It’s like I said, okay, but it depends. Yeah, you may or may not need to reinforce the firewall, but certainly you’ll have to pay some attention to the wing saddle area and probably the wing halves, the, the, the root joint. Maybe add a dihedral brace in there to, because I mean

[00:30:11] This airplane is probably going to fly a lot faster than it was intended we’ll have a lot more.

[00:30:15] D’s put on the wing exactly with rubber power and then anywhere you’re going to add a.

[00:30:20] Hinge, because usually the free flight stuff is that you, we don’t have hinges. Yeah, so anywhere you’re going to add a hinge for the flexing of the control surfaces, you’re probably going to have to beef that up a little bit to accept the hinge. What I mean I do, yeah, so

[00:30:34] So yeah, but other than that, I mean, and you’re probably going to be cutting, well, if you do ailerons, you’re going to have to cut ailerons out, right? I mean right, because those aren’t, are they usually?

[00:30:42] Built separately, or is it usually? Well, on the ones that I’m familiar with, it’s now- granted, it’s been a long time, so they may have changed them, but the ones I built usually didn’t have aliens. You just put them on with trim tape. You just, you just kind of faked it. You just put trim tape on that in the shape of the yellow and to make it look like. But the wing was not cut for what I’m saying, yeah, so, yeah, that would be obvious. If you want to put ailerons on it, that’d be kit bashing.

[00:31:09] See what I did there you did that but anyway yeah those are those are some of the areas I would.

[00:31:14] Concentrate on if you’re going to do a conversion. Hopefully he’s already done that and he’s been flying it, and his dad with his dad for a while now. Hopefully, because I think this email was a ways back. But yeah, thanks for writing to us, man, I appreciate it. So next, this one comes from alan. He says: hey, gentlemen, my name is alan davidson. He sent that to us, so I’m gonna say it. I am from the great state of utah. I’m a big fan of your show. I wish you all the clear skies. Thank you, yep, appreciate that. My question is about rc flying clubs. How does one find clubs to join? How do you start one up if

[00:31:50] There are none around you. Lastly, how do you get a flying field sanctioned by the ama? I don’t know if this is out of your wheelhouse, but I thought I would ask, since you guys are members of your local flying club. Thanks, guys, keep up the great work. Cheers: alan davidson. Well, alan, I can tell you that I’ve never started a club, so I don’t know the ins and outs of applying for membership with the ama, but I do know that there’s a fairly long list of requirements that have to be met before you can be an ama sanction club, not the least of which is the proximity of your flying of your chosen

[00:32:25] Flying field to an airport and controlled airspace. So that’s definitely something to think about. But the ama website is, I mean, a very in-depth. I mean they have chock full of information. So the information you need is there, I guarantee it, and if it’s not, they have an 800 number that you can call and they will get those answers for you. So I’m not going to try to venture against, because I’m not an expert and I don’t want to steer you down the wrong path. So I don’t know how to become an ama.

[00:32:56] Field. But I can tell you one quick and easy way to find an ama club that’s near you: get on the ama website. They list all the clubs by region. They list them by state. They list them, I mean there’s several different ways you can filter your search. You can find an ama sanctioned club, I bet, in five minutes, or you can find the closest one to you in like five minutes just by getting on the ama website.

[00:33:18] And searching yeah but that doesn’t mean it’s going to be close to you exactly that’s that’s.

[00:33:22] Absolutely true. Yeah, especially in utah, utah’s big state. There’s a lot of open, unpopulated areas in utah, I’m sure, so there’s just probably going to be clubs around the, the major metropolitan areas, maybe a few cities here and there. But I imagine, if you’re out in the sticks,

[00:33:39] You’ll be driving. That’s the place to be anyway. I mean Ron says that because that’s where he lives. I like being in the country, but good luck- I mean like that is a great thing to do- is trying to get more people flying, more fields, more ama sanctioned events going on and all that’s.

[00:33:56] That’s what you want to see: more people doing, this and not- and not that I want to take any business away from the ama- you can certainly have a club. Excuse me, start a club on your own and not be an ama sanctioned club. There’s, there’s, there’s plenty of those out there still, yeah, and all that takes is a group of guys, like-minded guys and girls that like flying models, and you get together once in a while, you find a place to rent slash, buy, slash, whatever, or a place that maybe is friendly to rc airplanes and let you fly there for free. I mean, it just takes a few like-minded people getting

[00:34:28] Together to say hey let’s do this and it is weird it just happens yeah I mean I don’t know what utah is.

[00:34:33] Like, but I know there’s a lot of open area out there, but like it for where we are. If we were friends with a farmer, that had no problem with us putting a field in. We are more than legal to fly on private property, as long as we’re following all the faa stuff. Yep, I mean it’s right, it’s a good idea to be a member of the ama and to be charged and all that kind of stuff. I’m not saying don’t do that right, because there is a lot of benefits to it. Sure, most of which is just something you’re only going to.

[00:35:06] Get through them. That’s the one of the biggest things- is lobbying for the hobby they do a great job on, on all that kind of stuff too, with our dues and because the ama does.

[00:35:19] Such a good job at regulating and lobbying for us at in congress. It doesn’t we don’t have to be experts at all of that because the ama does that. So, alan, thanks for thanks for writing to us. It is certainly out of my wheelhouse the ama specifics about starting a club and stuff, but hopefully you can find an ama club near you that’s not too far of a drive and enjoy this great hobby with other like-minded folks. Yeah, let us know how it goes. Yeah,

[00:35:50] Okay, so next this one will be a question for Ron. This comes from stan. He says I have a lander’s technology edf electronic or electric ducted fan. In case he doesn’t know that new that was purchased some years ago, kv3000, serial number l00a15853. I’m not sure if I needed to say that, but there it is. It’s in the email. How can I know what size battery should be used with it? Three cell.

[00:36:19] Four cell, six cell or other. Thank you, stan johns. So bad news on that one. That’s not an easy thing to find out. If what I mean obviously serial number, who made it and all that reach out to the manufacturer, most of these reputable manufacturers are going to have a way to contact them and we’ll have information on what it, what their product needs. You don’t- I mean you don’t- want to throw in like a 6s battery and then burn it up because, oh it.

[00:36:54] Seemed like it should have done it. You just want to be careful and follow what they say. There’s. That’s. The downfall with electrics is, if it’s not labeled, you really don’t know. Yeah, and it’s, it’s unfortunate. Yeah, that’s one of the learning curves with electrics. You just got like maybe, maybe.

[00:37:12] Maybe if we had a little bit more information like how much does the plane weigh what type of.

[00:37:16] Flying, does it? Is it designed to do necessarily? Oh really, eds pull a lot of time anyway. Oh, that’s true, they do high revving, high rpm. Okay, and it. Just well, stan, if you can reach out to.

[00:37:30] The manufacturer. If the manufacturer is not available or not around anymore, which is a common tale. I think lander’s technology is still okay, I think, perfect. Well, if they are, yeah, reach out to them. And if not, another resource you can use or some of the rc forums like rc groups, rc universe, if it’s still. I think it’s still going. I haven’t checked my account in a while, but anyway, chances are there’s a thread somewhere on that on the user forums that will probably cover that question.

[00:38:00] In detail so stan thanks for contacting us appreciate the appreciate the.

[00:38:07] The ask message. Thank you the question, yeah, kobe brain, I’m telling you it’s real. All right, so the next one comes from mark. He says: hello Ron. And Tom Ron was first excellent and informative podcast. You discussed briefly on converting a weed whacker engine for rc planes. Could you discuss the process on how to do it- reducing weight, what electronics to buy and how to install on the engine, type of engines that work better than others manufacturers who make the electronics?

[00:38:37] Thanks, mark. Absolutely. I can talk about that a little bit and I’ll try to make it short. Basically, you find a, a weed whacker or a chainsaw or some sort of small implement engine that you want to use. You cut everything off of it that isn’t necessary to fly, okay. So if you’re going to stick with the magneto ignition that comes stock on most of them, cut everything off that isn’t magneto ignition or necessary for flying. It shields things like well, because you want it to be light, well, no.

[00:39:11] No, no. Why would you switch to electronic ignition over the magneto? Okay, so I was going to get to that. But okay, never mind, then I’ll sit back and you just go. You go through your thing, and if there’s something,

[00:39:24] You don’t come so yeah cut everything off because weight is a premium and there’s a lot of.

[00:39:30] Cast in stuff on the crank cases of these engines that we don’t need, like duct work for cooling, because these things are usually housed in a fairly tight housing. We don’t need all that because we put them in on a big open nose with cooling that. We don’t need it air coming in with a propeller in front. So yeah, cut everything off of it that isn’t necessary for flying it. And if you’re going to, like I said, if you’re going to keep the magneto ignition, obviously keep all the mounting for the pickup coil and the and the flywheel and all that kind of stuff.

[00:40:01] Some things I’ve done with. With magneto ignition. I’ve cut the flywheel down to make it a little bit lighter, because weight- we’re always trying to save weight- as long as you keep you don’t need the cooling fins on there, right, because we’re not. We’re not moving air, because air is going to be moving for us. So I usually I’ve chucked them in a lathe before and cut the fins down to, because all you really need on that flywheel is that magnetic that’s embed, or that magnet that’s embedded into the housing of the flywheel. That’s all you really need that for, and it’s a lot of.

[00:40:36] Weight spinning. So for that reason I like to convert mine to electronic ignition and ch ignitions. That’s my go-to for anything ignition related, because they make- you’d be surprised, they make, or they used to make- kits for just about every type of weed, whacker, chainsaw, whatever you want to do. And they make other parts too, like for example prop hubs, because when you get rid of that, that big heavy cast aluminum flywheel you’re gonna have, usually you get rid of the potential.

[00:41:13] Mounting point for your propeller. So you’re gonna need a prop hub and things like that. So ch ignitions does that. If you don’t want to buy stuff, if you’re handy and you’re good with a metal working lathe, it’s really super easy to make your own prop hubs. That’s what I did on all of mine. Happened to work in a machine shop at the time, so I made my own prop hubs. I made my own mounts for the for the pickup coil. Actually it’s a hall effect sensor which actually is a small magnet. You just raise, counterbore a hole into your prop hub and glue the magnet and then you’re done. And then you can.

[00:41:45] Mount your? Usually it’s a. The pickup sensor is mounted on a plastic tab with elongated holes. That’s already round, so it just kind of mounts to the nub of the crankcase where the crankshaft comes out. Two small holes you’re doing. It’s super easy to do. You can even do it with a hose clamp. I’ve seen it that way too. But anyway, ch ignitions- that’s the place to go to for conversions, like the other question. Part of his question was type of engines that work better than others. I’ve had good luck.

[00:42:20] With pulan. I don’t know who makes, I think it’s kiritz, I think that’s who makes their engines. They seem to run really good. Ryobi is another common conversion. I’ve converted one of those, I think Ron, you have it now 30 cc. Yeah. So, with a little, with a little ingenuity, if you, if you want to do it yourself, you certainly can, but you it takes. If you’re going to do the electronic ignition conversion, you might want to. If you’re not going to buy the parts to do it, then you.

[00:42:50] Have to be kind of handy with a lathe, but it’s really not rocket science and this, this topic is covered in depth at rc groups. On the, there’s actually, I believe, an entire now forum just for: oh really, yeah for this. So well, you didn’t answer my question, though. No, the, the, why would you go electronic?

[00:43:08] Ignition over that I understand the weight thing. But also, if you went with magneto, is there any more of an issue with feedback? It’s not in my experience, because the magneto ignition they.

[00:43:22] Have. They already have usually shielded high tension leads, which you get with electronic ignition also. So I’ve never now- granted I’ve not had a lot of it because I usually don’t keep the magneto, but ones that I’ve seen convert. Like, dave taylor flies, I believe, a couple of airplanes with magneto and he’s never had issues and he used to fly those on 72 megahertz and no issues at all.

[00:43:45] Just seems like that would be simpler to not have to worry about a battery and all that it is the problem.

[00:43:49] So one of the advantages you get- and I could talk about this for a while, but I won’t- but one of the advantages you get from electronic ignition is customizable spark curves, right to make the airplane easier to start, or to make the engine easier to start. If the hot, if the, if the system is reading below a certain rpm range- I think it’s like 2200 or whatever it is- it advances the spark to make it easier to start and then when it, once the engine is running, it gets past that, then it goes into a whole different spark curve and advance and all that. So that’s one advantage.

[00:44:21] You get from electronics. It does all that kind of stuff to make the airplane or to make the engine easier to handle. Does that make sense? Yeah, I guess I can see that. So that’s, that’s another advantage. And one of the other is, like I said, all that weight. Yes, the. It’s simpler in operation, the magneto, but it comes at a cost. But it comes at a cost, right, and they are kind of harder to start because you really- I mean, they’re designed to be pull starts- you’re getting them up to a pretty good rpm and more than one revolution to get it to go exactly. So usually a magneto.

[00:44:54] Equipped engine requires an electric starter, which, as I’m not a fan of, but I’ve been using more and more lately because it’s cold and they’re hard to start, so but that’s.

[00:45:05] If I, I might have a couple old engines and out in the shop. Is that something we should do or could do sometime, like I wouldn’t mind seeing how that’s actually done. Converting one, oh, do a conversion, yeah.

[00:45:17] I don’t have access to that machine shop anymore. So well, I have, I have a metal aid. What do you need for it? Oh well, just I mean, you’ve seen that, yeah, preferably some high-speed steel cutting bits- or carbide would be even better- cutting bits- and tool holders and the tool rest. And I’ve got all that cross feed, cross slide and all that kind of stuff. Got all that. Oh well, if you’ve got all that,

[00:45:40] All we need the only thing I don’t have is the end tailstock yeah can we do it without that.

[00:45:47] Shorter pieces yeah we could absolutely then we should try that sometime I think that’d.

[00:45:52] Be fun okay we’ll put it on our list of things to do in the next 10 years there you go all right.

[00:45:58] All right, mark, that. Hopefully that answers a couple of the questions. But yeah, do it like there’s the. I mean the topic is covered, like I said, in depth at our rc groups, which is one of my favorite hangouts. So thanks, mark, for reaching out to us. Okay, slade writes to us. Slade says, hey, can you give me some tips on landing? This is a challenge for me. Slade, you’re not the only one. It’s a challenge for a lot of people. It was a challenge for reading for me for many years. Yeah, so it says thank you for the podcast. And, Tom, I love nitro planes too. Awesome, another nitro one.

[00:46:31] Plane I have is a cadet mark ii and it has modified control surfaces. I take a lot of your tips with me and apply them to where I fly. I’m new and I’m 12 years old. Thank you, slade. Well, slade, that’s good to hear. I’m glad you listen to our tips and apply them to where you fly. I appreciate that.

[00:46:47] Go ahead. No, I was just gonna say, like, landing is landing is the thing that separates a good pilot from a great pilot. You can always see how well somebody can fly by, how well they land. That’s true, do you agree? That’s? Yeah, it is difficult, is very difficult to do. It is probably.

[00:47:10] One of the more technical things in a flight well landing is not difficult to do the airplane’s gonna.

[00:47:16] Land one way or the other, landing successful landings where you can take off again right, and so it’s one of the things where you just practice, practice, practice. I mean, I’ve said it before, one of my favorite things to do when I go to the field is take off, fly around once, touch and go, yeah, fly around again, touch and go. I mean just that repetitive approach, repetitive everything, yeah, and

[00:47:40] Eventually you get really good at it. You do, I mean, add that. So, yeah, so tips on landing practice- I mean that’s the biggest tip I can provide, and preferably you have a large space to land on. Yeah, and challenge yourself by trying to make your available space smaller. Does that make sense? Like, try to land in the same spot if you can, over and over, and eventually you’ll. You’ll develop kind of a relationship with the airplane that you’re flying. You’ll get become familiar with its characteristics and whether it needs right rudder on. Take all those.

[00:48:12] Sorts of things. But yeah, the biggest tip I can offer would be practice and hopefully get yourself an area large enough to allow you room for mistakes. Yeah, I mean, it’s practice in the air.

[00:48:24] Slowing down to kind of see how the airplane gets when you have to apply a little bit of elevator to it to kind of get it on the edge, not to where it’s going to stall, but on the edge. I mean, that’s well I.

[00:48:35] Can tell you that the cadet mark ii- that slate- is flying very forgiving airplane. That’s a great- has trained hundreds, if not thousands, of pilots and that airplane does. It has really nice stall characteristics. It warns you, like it, it doesn’t really stall and snap and do anything right, it just sort of mushes. So even if you do happen to get a little bit slow, it’s a very forgiving airplane and the landing gear is nice and cushy too. So it takes a lot of abuse. But yeah, exactly what you said, yep.

[00:49:06] Try to try to learn the behavior of that airplane in the air before you before you try to land.

[00:49:11] It but and then fly it to the ground, yep, yeah, like, don’t, you are in control until all of the wheels are safely on the ground. Exactly right, and don’t take it for granted that, well, I’m a foot off the ground, I’m fine. Yep, I can give up. No, yeah, that’s usually when most- yeah, I mean it is, and it’s, it’s so difficult to not get the bounce. I mean it’s on the airplane, but yeah, well, but you see a lot of people to where they that’s like, hey, decent landing, and then it’s one little porpoise, a little.

[00:49:42] Poor. I mean it looks like a dolphin coming out of the water and that’s just getting used to the airplane, getting used to its characteristics, seeing how it lands and getting that speed down is so important but difficult. So practice, practice, practice. I mean I hate just to say that’s it.

[00:49:59] But yeah, so slate, thanks for writing to us. The biggest tip we can offer is practice and it’s fun, right. So practice makes perfect, all right. Next comes from mort. Mort says: hello, Ron, I’m mort, age 15. A beginner at flying rc planes started last week when mort wrote this so awesome. I found your podcast and it’s wonderfully helpful. I finally signed up for the mailing list, which is great. We think that’s great. Also wondering if you have any tips on flying these light foam beginner planes in the wind.

[00:50:33] Thanks oh that’s a tough one yeah if you just started flying no wind is your friend yeah I would.

[00:50:43] I would. I would echo that sentiment. These light foam airplanes don’t generally handle wind very well anyway, so if you’re new to flying, I would try to pick a, pick a day that’s calmer. Yeah, and I don’t know.

[00:50:57] What kind of airplane he’s talking about. I don’t know if it’s a small foamy with AS3X, I don’t know right. It’s just like a profile type airplane. That makes a difference too. Obviously, AS3X makes it a little bit more forgiving. But yeah, the one of the hardest things to accept about this hobby is that not every day is a flight day, even though you want it to be absolutely true. Patience, and I found too

[00:51:27] Normally if it’s a windy day, when dusk is kind of upon you, the wind dies down quite a bit. It does, so you might have enough time to get a single flight in before it gets too dark. But that- that’s patience, is probably the best thing I can say. Until you get used to it. Once you’ve been flying for a while, you don’t think about your next move, like once it becomes habit for you. And that’s kind of the same with slade, with the landing thing. Once it becomes habit, right then you don’t have to.

[00:51:59] Worry as much about what you’re doing and you can go out when it’s a little bit windier yep that’s just.

[00:52:04] But if you have to fly in the wind, point it in the wind and land, land into the wind. Yeah, you want. You want the wind in the airplane’s face if that makes sense for takeoff and landing, but the because if

[00:52:18] Not what happens if you have a tailwind. You lose your lift. Well, yeah, well, I’m. If he just started flying, probably doesn’t know that. He probably doesn’t know that. So there you go. If you have a tailwind, then that breeze comes from behind you and all the lift that your plane has. You’re going to lose it exactly. So fly into the wind and try and stay out of the wind as much as possible until you’re used to it. That would be preferable, but when it is windy sometimes it’s fun to see if you can fly backwards. I think we’ve all done that. Oh yeah, yeah, all right. Well, that’s the last one for this.

[00:52:54] Time. Yep, anything else you want to talk about, nope me neither. Okay, then let’s get out of here. Let’s call it all right, everybody. Thank you for listening. Yes, thanks for listening. Have a wonderful.

[00:53:04] Evening: good night. Good night. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the RC Plane Lab podcast. For topic suggestions, to ask questions or to give anything back, connect with us at rcplanelab.com or email us direct at either Ron at rcplanelab.com or Tom at rcplanelab.com. You can also text us or leave us a voicemail at 818-351-9846. Please subscribe, rate and review us on your favorite podcast app. Until next time, may your landings be gentle.