Ep 91: Dave Taylor

[00:00:04] Hello everyone and welcome to the RC Plane Lab podcast. I’m Ron and I’m Tom. Today we’re sitting down and talking with dave taylor. Dave is a friend of mine and tommy’s. I remember dave from back in the local hobby shop days when I first started with my rc cars back in the cars.

[00:00:24] Well such a loser you’ve done cars I know I’m a loser too true that would have been like the.

[00:00:30] Late 90s, I think, probably close to my high school times. Anyway, he’s been flying rc airplanes for about 35 years and has built over 100 airplanes. He actually has more planes ready to go now than tommy and I combined, yeah, so this should be a good conversation. Yeah, even though tommy is like the nitro guy, dave is the guy that tommy goes to when he has questions. Absolutely true, you guys have

[00:01:01] Been friends for a long time yeah how did that all happen I think it started back in the.

[00:01:07] Car days. Yeah, oh, yeah, making fun of me for that, yeah, well, yeah, so I started the racing thing in like 95 or so. I guess it was before that, really, because we were we were playing with cars out at the old track at the hobby house. Yeah, I don’t know why, I could never remember that, but yeah, so that would have been probably mid to early 90s. Even I started racing cars in 85, okay, so I didn’t start quite that early with the cars. I think I was 92 when I first got my

[00:01:40] My first race car. But yeah, anyway, dave and I started became acquaintances, racing buddies, and then that transitioned to airplanes and yeah, I mean that’s. It doesn’t seem like it’s been that long ago, but yeah, that, when you, when you, when you write it down and you look at it on paper in 1992, that was a long time ago. Yeah, I was 11. Oh, shut up. Sorry, hey, funny story, dave and I are about the same age, yeah, so now there’s two of us: Ron -oh -huh -oh, yeah, make fun of our age now, buddy.

[00:02:10] Well no I’ll be respectful to dave so you guys actually used to work at hobby shops from what Tom.

[00:02:21] Told me: yep, but competing hobby shops, right? Yep, okay, yeah, talk about it to me. Yeah, so to me, even though the two shops were competing, I didn’t have any like skin in the game, and dave didn’t have any skin in the game either. So we were always, I thought, friends and I would always send people to the shop that you worked at if we, if I couldn’t help them or if we didn’t have something they needed, and vice versa. So it was like, even though they were competing hobby shops. Now you got to realize this is back in a time, this is before the internet, right? So if you wanted to buy rc stuff, you

[00:02:54] Had two options: you could either go to a hobby shop or you could mail or call in an order to one of these, these mail order places. So yeah, that was always very amicable between right on what? Wednesday nights, yeah, wednesday nights, or mckay’s- remember mckay’s? We used to race there too, but yeah, we’d, we’d race on wednesday nights and we’d each send customers to the other. I wouldn’t say that, but yeah, that’s that. Yeah, we. I mean, even though it’s a funny-

[00:03:26] Story because the two, the two owners of those two shops, just absolutely could not bear to even think about the other. They were just, they were not friends at all. But the- the people that worked for them were, were obviously friends, friendly. Yeah, I just find it funny that this town used to support two hobby shops at one time. We had three at one time, really. Yeah, yeah, wow. Now we have zero and we have none and we have to drive two hours to go north to get to a decent one. Yeah, that’s so I have to buy.

[00:03:58] Substandard glue at Hobby Lobby. Oh, don’t get Ron started on the Hobby Lobby glue. Yeah, you’ve heard that episode. I hope, oh, yeah, yeah, that’s. Yeah, I’m not gonna do that again. No, so yeah, it’s a minimum of a hundred mile drive to get decent glue. Yeah, that’s true. Yeah, that’s so sad. It is sad. But back in the day, I mean, we had up to three hobby shops where you could go and get quality stuff, but locally.

[00:04:25] Not anymore. Yep. So, dave, let’s talk about you and not hobby shops and stuff. How did you get started in the hobby? Well, it started with the cars like we talked about. I’ve always loved.

[00:04:38] Airplanes, airplanes always been a love of mine, and then I graduated high school and got a little money and bought my first airplane. You remember what? Yeah, so what was the impetus for that? Like did.

[00:04:51] You did you see them at the local club or did you have somebody my grandparents lived well within.

[00:04:57] Hearing distance of the old club field on hazeldale. Oh, over there by knights, yep, okay, and so I could sit on their front porch and hear the airplanes, yeah, and of course they drug us out.

[00:05:08] There every now and then to see them right. So there used to be a field Ron, right across from knights action park on the other side of 72. There really it’s. It’s vacant, pretty much a vacant farmland green space now, but there used to be a field there and I forget which, which club that was- I don’t springfield. Sunday flyers- sunday flyers- there you go. So yeah, I remember that clubs because as I got started in the airplanes, the, the story that I told that got me in the hobby of my neighbor. That’s where we would take our weekend trips, or whatever.

[00:05:38] We’d come up to the sunday flyers club there by knights action park and that’s where we did a lot of.

[00:05:43] Our flying so this town had two clubs too then at the same time or is that not at one time they had.

[00:05:48] Three clubs because we had sunday flyers, we had the knights of the air and then we had the whatever that club. Yeah, the sangma valley. Yeah, we had three and that’s the only one that is still with it, because

[00:05:58] That’s the one we’re members of now. That’s true. Yep, wow, yeah, that’s something. That’s. Yeah, I didn’t realize there were three, like I knew about the second one because you’ve told me about it. But

[00:06:09] Yeah, springfield back in the day was really- I don’t want to say mecca, that might be overstating it, but- but it was a really large rc scene, more than likely because of our proximity to tower and great plains and hobbyco and all those folks in champagne. But yeah, yeah, at one time this place was booming with rc stuff. So you had to, so you were able to hear from your front for, from grandma’s front porch, the airplane. So that’s what, that’s what did.

[00:06:40] It for you. The sound. Well, that, and just the normal love of airplanes, yeah, yeah, that’s awesome. For me it was kind of the sound too. It also tells you how loud the old airplanes, oh yeah, there were no decibel. You never had to stay under a decibel limit back then. Well, that’s yeah.

[00:06:58] That’s quite a distance from what you’re talking about to where the actual field was yeah I was.

[00:07:02] About probably a mile and a half. Two miles, yeah, yeah, sound travels, I guess. But wow, that’s crazy. So what was your first airplane? First airplane that I purchased was a goldberg anniversary edition cub. Ah, started with a club, with a c, with a os 91, four stroke. Wow you. You jumped right into the four strokes. Then yep right, and my instructor promptly threw it, flew it through a tree. For me, oh jeez, it shot through the tree, shot across hazeldell and was heading for 72 fuselage. Only I left the tail and

[00:07:34] The wings in the tree, oh sweet. So it was like a missile, yes, and the 91 was pulling it? Oh sure it was, yeah, well, yeah, it didn’t have the weight of the wing and the and the empennage to hold it back.

[00:07:45] Luckily it hit the catch fence before it got to the highway that’s good I still have one of those by.

[00:07:50] The way in the box the goldberg cub kit not a broken one it’s not broken no well it’s not built.

[00:07:57] So what size would that be if it’s a 91 that’d be a pretty good size 40 to 60 size yeah.

[00:08:04] They were. They were designed to be a 40 to 60 size. Okay, two stroke, yeah, 91 wouldn’t the equivalent way too much horsepower, it was too much. Yeah, I’m sure, but we’re talking like a 78 inch wing, I believe. Yeah, something like that. That’s a good size for the time. Fifth, sixth scale, yeah, yeah, and that was one of- well, I won’t say one of the first, but I believe that was a very early kit that had what we call now tablock type construction. I’d never built anything previously.

[00:08:33] Yeah, and it was flyable, obviously, yeah, so you built your first one then. Yes, that’s awesome, see, I got into it when it was the foamy super cub that was ready to go and you just didn’t have to worry about billing like that would be so much more stressful, I think, than what I had to deal with because I was out money, not time, if anything happened to it. Yeah, yeah, we were out money and time.

[00:08:54] So did you have somebody that taught you to fly a guy named mark edwards I had met racing cars of.

[00:09:00] All things so this is all thanks to cars I guess yeah well I started cars too so it’s a lot less.

[00:09:06] Expensive to get into cars, but just not as fun. Yeah, it depends on how bad you get into cars, I guess, but I guess I’m the only one that started with airplanes. I mean, is this a start to learning?

[00:09:19] How like it’s hard to pick up on when the plane or car is coming at you. Everything is backwards, and I think that’s easier to pick up on a car than on an airplane, because there’s a lot less that can go wrong when you’re driving a car. So just stop. Yeah, true, you can’t do that on a plane. That’s a good point. So I think once you get used to it with that, it’s it’s a likely next step, because cars take you to planes. At least they did for me. So how long did it take you to learn?

[00:09:46] It was a summer oh okay that’s pretty quick actually yeah I had to build a second airplane.

[00:09:51] After that so I picked up a midwest aerostar and a can be 45 sportster which is an awful engine.

[00:10:00] I’m not a big fan of the sportsters yep I agree was quickly replaced by a super tagger.

[00:10:05] Bullring 40. There you go and that engine well it had over 100 gallons of fuel through it when I.

[00:10:11] Sold it wow that’s a lot of fuel that’s a lot of fuel so what’s wrong with the like I’m doing the.

[00:10:16] Math in my head 100 gallons at even back then prices at 15 bucks a gallon that’s a lot of fuel.

[00:10:23] But that’s a lot of fun it is absolutely so what was wrong with k and b like what’s wrong with those.

[00:10:27] That you guys didn’t like them. Low horsepower, unreliable. The sportster series was a plane bearing engine and just was cantankerous. It would leak air through the plane bearings. Just hard to tune, not a beginner’s motor, which I definitely was at the time. Yeah, see that stuff like for me if I did.

[00:10:48] Want to get into collecting or doing anything with nitro motors? I would have no idea because I’ve not dealt with them. So you see all these different motors and stuff for sale on like ebay or facebook classifieds and all that I half time I don’t even know what I’m looking at. Yeah, yeah, I, I have to.

[00:11:06] Agree that the sportsters, even the 60 was a 60 or 61, whatever it was not a not a friendly engine to play with for this, for exactly what you’re talking about, just very, very finicky on the needle settings.

[00:11:22] If you could get them to run at all you’re sucking air through the crankcase about 50 of the time.

[00:11:27] Yeah, so not a, not a fun engine to learn. Luckily for me, I’ve never owned one, so I own two. I’ve had to. I’ve had to help people try to tune them before, but I’ve never owned them and I won’t now. The other kmbs, the 4011, I think, is the model number. They’re bearing ball bearing support of crankshaft 45. That thing’s a screamer. I had a kmb boat motor, oh yeah, oh yeah. So it’s like, just like anything else, there’s good ones and bad ones. Manufacturers make good and bad.

[00:12:01] So and usually the more expensive the better off it is generally speaking pay for ball bearings.

[00:12:06] Yeah, agreed, that much I have heard. Although I will say the os la series of models are okay. They run pretty doggone good. That’s what’s on my yellow stick and it may. It runs really good.

[00:12:18] You don’t have to worry about them rusting that’s right you’ve run a lot of fuel through that so I.

[00:12:22] Have at least a couple gallons anyway. Yeah, so, anyway, yeah. So, mark edwards, I’m familiar with the name. I’m having a hard time putting a face with it, but I’m sure he was around whenever- mike, that’s the guy who helped me- and I would go to the field up there, and he was, he a pattern.

[00:12:43] Flyer by any chance pattern. But the big thing I remember with him is he was the first ducted fan jet I’ve ever saw. Byron f-16 with the os-91 yep took the entire field to get it off the ground.

[00:12:55] I remember well, I mean, I remember the ducted fan era trying to fly them at nights. So in taylorville, where I grew up, we did a majority of our flying. They would let us use the airport. This is way, way back when, of course. But the ducted fan guys, they would delight in the fact that they could use that full 2800 feet, or whatever it was, of runway, because that’s what it took. Yeah, we were flying off the grass. Yeah, yikes, can’t imagine.

[00:13:25] Those things don’t make. I mean, it sounds like they’re making a lot of power- oh it’s screaming, but they, they really didn’t make a lot of power because they’re pretty inefficient, puts out way more than that. Exactly because they, yeah, they weren’t very you couldn’t. It’s almost like, even though the engines were screaming, you just couldn’t generate enough rpm to giant cheater, to produce the thrust. Yeah, and then the big, exactly the big holes on the bottoms of the fuselage so they could get enough air to move. Yeah, I remember those days. I’m glad those days are over. Edfs are way, way more efficient. New plug, every flight, yep guaranteed. Or if you were really tricky, you had that cool.

[00:14:00] In-flight adjustable needle which sometimes that helped too but yeah I’m glad I don’t have to deal.

[00:14:06] With that anymore so you can say I’m super lean to get off the ground then rich them up so you don’t.

[00:14:09] Explode. Yeah, wow, how the how the times have changed. Yeah, so you remember your first airplane? Do you remember your- I don’t know? Your 15th, 15th? I can’t tell you, not a clue. The reason I ask that is because we’re talking about it earlier. It’s like everybody remembers like their first one, maybe their first five, let’s say. But then if you’ve been in the hobby for a long time and you’ve, you’ve amassed a list like this of airplanes over the over the course of the years, you tend to forget a lot of what’s in the middle and I just thought, yeah, it might be that goldberg elettro. I got on there.

[00:14:43] Oh okay all right I’ve got a goldberg elettro that I built 88 89 oh this is the one you still have yeah.

[00:14:50] Yeah so that might be close to one of the yeah that’s got that’s got me beat the oldest.

[00:14:55] Airplane I have is that old contender. So I’m trying to think, like I don’t even remember the order that they come in, like I don’t know how you can remember more than three. Like I remember the first one just because of what it was. I remember the second one because it was the one I wanted to buy first, yeah, but I just I can’t, like I don’t even remember what I got after that well, from like

[00:15:16] The era that we come from you, you spent so much time with them, building them exactly. Well, that’s true. Yeah, I mean you, you’re intimately familiar with the airplane itself because you more than likely built it, or at least had some hand in building it with the person that’s helping you. So, yeah, I remember my first, at least my first three. I think I got four or five this area. It was the.

[00:15:37] It was the piper cub, followed by a blue max- I remember those- followed by I think it was one of the red box p47, and then a brighty vagabond. Which vagabond, the brighty righty? Yeah, okay, yep, which was a pattern trainer of some sort, very similar to the chaos, kind of like a chaos. Yep, it had double tapered wing, though, which was really fun to build for a beginner.

[00:16:06] Yeah how’d you manage that because I don’t know it ended up fairly straight yeah I remember yeah.

[00:16:12] And after that I can’t remember. Yeah, yeah, there was no youtube back then to find out how to do things, when you didn’t know what was going on and there was no internet to look it up either.

[00:16:21] You had to either read the instruction manual or go to your club meeting or whatever, and bring it up at the with your buddies or at the field or whatever. Yeah, there was no social media back then.

[00:16:31] God how times have changed I know the blue max had a horribly warped wing.

[00:16:35] It actually spent some time in the bathtub. Oh, okay, to wet it down so you could put some twist in it. Yeah, or take twist out of it. Yeah, I think it’s that is that the one that had the big end caps on the wing? Yeah, big, super fat. Yeah, yeah, I remember that. So how’s that work? You just soak them to get them pliable and then, and then you put a, put a reverse twist in it and then let it dry.

[00:16:55] Yeah you over twist it going the other direction and hope you guessed right.

[00:17:00] I prefer that method myself than to do it with the covering, because I know some people. Covering gets out in, the sun loosens up and you’re back to where you started. Yeah, I’ve heard of doing.

[00:17:09] It the covering way but I’ve never heard of the bathtub method covering works for really small.

[00:17:12] Warps. I like the goldberg. You’re the electric. You’re supposed to put wash out in the wing, and that’s the way they have you do. It is put a pencil under it and heat up the covering. Yeah, huh.

[00:17:23] But then, like you said, you get it out in the sun and the covering gets soft, you’ve lost all of the work you put into it. Yeah, that’s so. Learn something new. Yep, what else teach me the blue?

[00:17:34] Man who made the blue man- I forget who, I don’t know. It’s an rcm modeler plan. I know. I saw the plans show up not too long ago and I thought about ordering them because I haven’t had one for.

[00:17:42] 30 Years. Yeah, somebody kidded it, though I remember that. Yeah, I don’t know who the kid was, mine was. Maybe would have been about the right time timeline, yeah, I don’t know. Anyway, yeah, that was a good plane. It was like a, the predecessor to the like the fun one, the one, oh okay, yeah, kind of similar design, kind of a shoulder wing, a really thick airfoil. These had a taper to it. They were swept. Oh, that’s right, it was not anything like well, it’s kind of because the, the fun one has a swept leading edge. The trailing edge is straight, right, but this one had the wing was completely

[00:18:17] Swept that’s the leading edge and the trailing edge yeah I forgot about that and just the square.

[00:18:21] Box fuselage pretty much a stick fuse yeah pretty much yeah huh yeah look at flying airplanes they.

[00:18:27] Were great fun flyer. Don’t know how many times I destroyed that. Well, because they give you false confidence. I think: oh, this thing, look at this thick wing. I can go out here and try to do an inverted flat spin, sure, no problem, and being new to it, I had the ailerons cranked.

[00:18:42] Way up of course back in the day before we had dual rates yep no such thing or I’m sure you didn’t have.

[00:18:47] The what the heck is it called my mind went blank expo yeah no such thing no expo back then was.

[00:18:56] You changed- we’ve talked about this before- you changed where you mounted the control horns on the wheel of the. Yeah, that’s differential. I’m talking about actual. Okay, yeah, where it smooths.

[00:19:08] Out the center of the sticks for you yeah huh yep straight four channel am conquest fataba radio.

[00:19:17] Oh you old people it’s so fun talking to you guys the memories I think I still have a four channel am.

[00:19:23] Because the electric still flies that yeah you can fly by and you hear the servos grinding away.

[00:19:30] Yeah, I still have an old fg. Remember the Futaba fgs, the gold cases. I still have a four channel of one of those cold in the winter. Yes, they were aluminum. Yeah, yeah, the case was aluminum. So, yeah, you got rid of one of your FM setups, didn’t you? Yeah, that was a. That was a newer computer of one of the first computerized radios. But yeah, the fg was same kind of a thing. No, no dual rates, no expo, no programming of any kind. Back off the radio to do the reverses. Reversing did have.

[00:20:03] Reversing that was a big selling point yeah really oh yeah you probably never experienced that.

[00:20:08] Either. Yeah, you’d flip the transmitter over and you pop the battery cover off, and behind the battery cover there would be dip switches, just a two position switch, and those were your reversing.

[00:20:17] That’s how you reverse the channels. Well see, I think was the dx4 was the very first one I ended up with the super cub, and that it had that, but it was on the front so you could still reverse, but it was. Yeah, it was. It was 2.4 Gigahertz, though, but like half a football field of range. Yeah, yeah, not very far. No, six foot long antennas, that’s right. Oh yeah, I remember the old rc car antennas that I had back on. Am that were that long? Never with planes, though, did you ever. I know you started.

[00:20:49] Dave, you started a little bit later than I did, but I had kind of a lull, if you will like. I started and I had my first airplane and I forget now 80, 81, whatever it was. Oh shut up. But then there was a few years there where I was in school or whatever and didn’t fly much after oh, did you ever have to fly with the numbers clipped to the antenna? Okay, and if it,

[00:21:13] Was breezy they’d be flopping around with the red antenna with the red flag at the tip at the tip.

[00:21:17] Yeah, yeah, that was really annoying. Yep, so my first radio had actual streamers on it that were two colors, like it would be. The top streamer would be white and the bottom would be orange. Remember those? And that’s how you could differentiate. You could just do a quick glance down the field and if you had the colors memorized of the of the frequencies, you could tell who was on what.

[00:21:37] Frequency I remember the old dubro tags to slip down with your numbers yep yeah those were.

[00:21:43] Those were trick. That was the trick thing you would do to your transmitter so you’d actually have numbers instead of those stupid colored streamers. Good time, see what you missed out.

[00:21:52] I missed on all that’s one of the pluses in the hobby shop I kind of guard my own channel.

[00:21:57] Yeah, nobody around here at channel 60. I never thought of that. That’s a good idea. Yeah, I was never quite. I guess I shouldn’t say that I guarded 78 for quite a while. On the car side, 78 and 84 I think, were the two that I that I that were always my go-to is before we went to.

[00:22:21] Spectrum anyway I had the old synthesized yeah change anywhere in the spectrum yeah I had that.

[00:22:27] For a very brief period, because I held out for so long, because I was so fond of my old futava magnum transmitters. We’re talking about cars, but yeah, I had synthesized for maybe a season and then.

[00:22:39] Yeah I was still driving synthesized five years ago nice yeah it’s funny I ran across a.

[00:22:46] Synthesized futava transmitter module. The other day, down to my stuff, it’s like I don’t remember owning a futava synthesized transmitter. But okay, here’s my module synthesized aircraft receiver, and I have no idea where it came from. Well, there you go, find a transmitter for this module and you’ll be set. I’ve still got my 80 103 on channel 60. I have an 80 of 103 mine’s. Mine’s been converted, though, or is it a 92 of whatever it is? I don’t know. Still in the case, I haven’t looked at it in a long time and I have no clue what you’re talking about. See, see us old guys. So, dave, what do you prefer, do you like?

[00:23:22] We’ve talked about this before. So obviously I think I get more out of the hobby by the tinkering and the building and the, the tuning and all that and run. I think he prefers more to do some.

[00:23:33] Of the flying than the tinkering. That is not correct. No, I think I’m. I’m going more over to the buildings. Oh yeah, okay it’s, I get scared to fly stuff. You do, we’ve talked about that before. It’s just yeah, you put so much time into it that you don’t want to see it go away. Yeah, you did a great.

[00:23:49] Job with the duelist, though I mean you seem to fly that thing like it’s on it like twice. It’s been more than that. It’s like it hasn’t been four or five on it. Okay, in that one day maybe, yeah.

[00:23:59] But it’s not been out since then. Well, we’ve been busy. I like how you go to that all the time. Well, we’ve been busy. No, we’ve been lazy, it’s okay, yeah, so what about you, dave, I am a builder through and.

[00:24:10] Through that was me I’m sorry okay so yeah you get you get more out of the building yeah.

[00:24:18] Unfortunately, it’s a little hard for me sometimes to get the field. I do have a disability, and dragging airplanes up and down the driveway, I just much rather build it. Some days I’m exhausted. By the time I get the plane in the car it’s like forget it. Yeah, so I don’t have a disability and I.

[00:24:34] Feel your pain. Well, I think we all of the times like I. Like I sometimes I think the night before, well, I should probably charge this and get this ready and by the time I have everything ready to go to put in the car the following morning. It’s like maybe I’ll just stay home and tinker with this engine or whatever. So I know I know exactly what you’re saying. I like gluing stick a stick b, yeah, yeah, I’m definitely the hands-on doing something with my hands and I mean I wish I was a better

[00:25:07] Flyer I really do but I get I’m like you I tend to get more out of my skill set has really dropped.

[00:25:13] Off in the last few years. I still I feel a very competent flyer. I can fly pretty much anything and I have yep. But I’m just, I’m getting old, my reflexes have slowed down, I’m flying quarter scale.

[00:25:28] World war one stuff, the, which is hard roll rate. Yeah, hard to fly to begin with, because they’re more finicky. Well, there’s, it’s a different technique, would you agree? Yeah, you got.

[00:25:39] To remember they’re very draggy yeah you don’t chop the throttle no and wait definitely you have to.

[00:25:45] Manage the throttle with. They’re not floaters, they’re very much like a duck fan jet. Yeah, you got to land with the throttle on when you’re flying with the rudder instead of the ailerons mostly.

[00:25:55] My triplane. I fly 99 of the time with the rudder- will actually find myself most of the time correcting with ailerons the opposite direction to keep it from over banking. Yeah, yeah, so you said.

[00:26:07] You’ve built over 100 airplanes? Yeah, roughly. We don’t need exact numbers because I couldn’t give them to you. Well, what is your so you? You said you like building kits. Obviously, what, what kit has been?

[00:26:20] Your favorite kit to go together. I tell you anymore. I love building the balsa usa kits. Everything fits their instruction manuals. Their instruction manuals are absolutely fabulous. There’s enough thinking to make it interesting, but again, there’s not so much thinking that you just get frustrated with it. Yeah, their aircraft always fly well, even with me making stupid mistakes sometimes. They’re forgiving, they’re very forgiving. I love building kits- my current favorite from them and I’ve had

[00:26:52] It for many, many years. It’s my fokker triplane quarter scale. I would love to have something third scale but I cannot store anything that big. Yeah, but their quarter scale triplane is just a fabulous flying airplane and it’s a pretty airplane. Yours is really pretty super hard to fly, yeah, no, no, they’re hard to land. It can be a handful and once the wheels touch the ground, yeah, I always heard

[00:27:19] They were hard to hard to kind of fly in and deal with it was a high center of gravity like a van.

[00:27:25] Oh yeah, so it likes to nose over quickly. Dave has handed the sticks over to me several times and makes me look like a fool, of course, and I’m always reluctant to take the sticks of his airplanes because he does such a great job building them and they’re all so pretty. But yeah, I’ve, I’ve tried to fly some of your world war one stuff and it just makes me look terrible. Yeah, once you get.

[00:27:47] The take off and roll out nailed, flying them. It’s no big deal. Okay, that’s interesting, that’s good. Yeah, to remember that tail wheel is also fun, especially in a crosswind, yeah, so I just got a skid then, or just a skid. So, yeah, you do a little. Hop and blast the rudder, hop and blast the.

[00:28:06] Rudder so what kind of wingspan does that have then quarter scale being roughly actually because.

[00:28:13] It’s a triplane it’s not that big it’s 60 ish okay yeah but it’s physically a big airplane.

[00:28:21] Like once it’s like once it’s together it’s that’s a lot of airplanes yeah that’s I guess so when.

[00:28:26] You talk about your. You like the biplanes and stuff, but the wingspan is not really a good judge by size of airplane for a biplane right, because the wings actually not as wide on those. So

[00:28:37] Right, yeah, not as much wingspan, because you got two of them. Yeah, it’s twice the left. Well, with the triplane, you technically have four. Well, that’s true, there’s a, there’s another plane.

[00:28:44] On the landing yeah in the middle I forgot about that or airfoil I should say not playing not as wide.

[00:28:49] But hey, it lifts, it provides lift. So the balls of usa, the triplane is your favorite. So what would you say? Your least favorite is over the over the last few years. I have an avios grand tundra.

[00:29:05] Which, oh, it’s electric, okay yeah, and it flies fine, but it’s got issues. It has a dutch roll to it which I had to fix by putting a gyro in it. Oh, what’s a dutch roll? Dutch roll is where you kind of yaws and rolls at the same time, so it kind of okay like the gyro did a lot to straighten that.

[00:29:29] Out yeah like there’s not enough vertical area or something you would think with that airplane.

[00:29:35] It would have plenty. It looks right, yeah, but it had a nasty dutch roll to it. The other problem with it is- and I haven’t fixed it yet- is the large tundra tires that came with it. They’re nice and squishy, they’re soft foam, like memory foam, but they are horribly out of balance. And if you do an extended takeoff roll- which this airplane doesn’t need, by the way- but if you do an extended takeoff roll-

[00:29:59] You can literally see the wheels bouncing up and down in about a four inch arc. Oh wow, holy cow, I’ve actually- they’ve- blown themselves off the rim. They’re glued on- not anymore. I’ve actually got a nut and bolt inside one of them to balance it. I need to just replace those wheels with a normal standard wheel. That is not annoying. It’s not annoying. Yes, the airplane is capable of taking off in its own length. With full flaps and a six cell setup, it’ll jump off the ground in less than two foot. Yeah, I’ve seen it, it does. But the extended rollout, oh man, it’s awful if you’re trying to go.

[00:30:35] For a scale takeoff. You really don’t do that very well. Yeah, no, if there I was gonna say: have there been any kits that you’ve tried to put together that have been so bad? You just quit on. No, I’ve built.

[00:30:47] Everything I’ve ever started. That’s impressive. Well, some are better than others, though right, it’s definitely something that comes with experience. There’s some kits that, if you were relatively new to it, you would never figure them out. Yeah, I’m thinking back the old redbox top flight kits. Oh man, basically the instruction manual for p47 was four pages, no pictures. Yeah, it’s true, that’s.

[00:31:08] Impressive though that you finished everything I can’t even say that I can’t say that because I.

[00:31:13] Currently have one that I haven’t finished which one does that okay oh yeah I will say my 1905.

[00:31:20] Right flyer, and I’m not going to mention manufacturer. The instructions leave a lot to be desired. Okay, I have an extra set of ribs- I don’t know where they go, really like a complete extra set. I have two spare upper ribs and have no clue where they go. Interesting, that is kind of funny, of course. No, no.

[00:31:40] Note in the in the manual this is oh hey by the way and of course there’s no plans either oh okay.

[00:31:45] Well that’s helpful really that was the one you just got not that long ago right up it I picked it up.

[00:31:49] At brian’s I have a Dynamic Balsa that’s good to know so that I don’t buy one of those or if I buy one.

[00:31:55] That well but it looks great I mean it does it actually goes together pretty well but it’s a head.

[00:32:00] Scratcher even with the experience that I’ve got it’s a head scratcher well that’s good because.

[00:32:05] I’ll be honest, I was looking at that kit before you bought it and I’m glad I didn’t even ask about it. I like airplanes that are different. I mean that’s, you don’t see those very often. I’d never seen a kit like that before, but I knew it was going to be a long time until I got to it, so I’m

[00:32:22] Glad you got it and got it put together because yeah it’s a beautiful looking airplane yeah well.

[00:32:27] And you’ve done a lot of extra stuff to it too like you scratch build your yeah but yeah the.

[00:32:31] Pictures that’s really neat which that’s part of building kits you get to make them the way you.

[00:32:36] Want them. I just never had leftover ribs. Yeah, that’s. I mean like I could understand if, if it was a die cutting sheet and they use like maybe the same the same die to print all the ribs, but maybe you get two sheets but you only need four, or vice versa. Yeah, you don’t have extras that way, that way. Yeah, I could see that, but these were just two. This is a laser cut.

[00:33:00] Random two leftover extra upper ribs interesting maybe they just package it wrong it’s laser cut.

[00:33:07] Sheet they’re all on the sheet oh I have no yeah I’m at a loss so if that’s a fairly new type or new.

[00:33:16] Kit then yeah I mean it’s not like it was 80s or 90s six kit or something oh I mean it’s not old.

[00:33:22] That’s new enough yeah I would think so well I mean it’s laser cut so it’s fairly yeah that’s kind.

[00:33:27] Of what I was thinking: wow, that’s impressive extra parts. I always end up with extra parts, but I’m usually. I usually figure they’re supposed to go somewhere. I usually end up with extra sheer webs.

[00:33:36] And things like that I always figured that somebody at the factory can’t count well that’s what I’m.

[00:33:40] Actually hoping because I have four extra sheer webs for the, for the stick that I’m building, and yeah, I look through everything and I think I did it right, but somebody else couldn’t count it could.

[00:33:53] Be. I hope more than likely that’s the case. Like they like, maybe they’re shrink wrapping, because a lot of the times the sheer webs will come like shrink wrapped. They were, yep. And maybe their shrink wrap machine is only designed to do a certain capacity and if you short it then it doesn’t shrink wrap it correctly or something. Who knows? I’m really frugal when I cut those too, so sometimes I figure I just well, yeah, you’re talking about cutting your own, but like on the kit that Ron’s working on, there they were, they were pretty good. So yeah, but you still did. You still have to trim.

[00:34:22] Them to get them to fit one. So I must have done something wrong. Well, I guess. No, I really couldn’t do anything wrong, because it’s tab construction one side of the wing. I had to the other side of the.

[00:34:35] Wing I didn’t have to interesting which is weird it is weird so I almost hate to ask.

[00:34:43] Are the panels the same length? I don’t know, I haven’t measured. I think I did that one time, left out a rib, I didn’t know. I know I didn’t live out a rib because, like when, well, the, the leading edges and trailing edges are notched, yeah, the ribs. So you, well, they would have to be.

[00:34:57] The same length. Well, one they could have shrank, or, who knows, they could have ran it through a different die, or it’d be interesting to see if your panels are the same length I’m. I’m gonna say

[00:35:08] They were the same because when I did the, the front spar that went across, it was notched, they were together in the box and they were the exact same length, because I actually looked at the lines. Okay, I don’t know if they use like a saw to cut that or how that works. I have no idea what I’m talking about, though, because it’s a square piece of tubing and then it’s just cut, angled on it with a slot. Yes, those all lined up, just perfect. So it was the exact same piece. So, yeah, I’m gonna say I didn’t do anything wrong on that one. All right, then I could be wrong, though. No, yeah, I know.

[00:35:40] So dave what’s your take like this whole faa drone thing and the faa is getting involved in the hobby what’s your take on.

[00:35:49] That. How do you feel about that? Oh, I think I’m going to take off some of our quad flyers, because I think they’re the ones that have brought this upon us. Ladies and gentlemen, this is not.

[00:36:05] No, it’s okay. No, it’s all right. Yeah, but you’re among friends. Yeah, I think these people getting quadcopters and they’re so simple to fly- anybody can fly them- and some people flying them over nfl games and getting in the way of aerial firefighting and things like that, have caused the faa to have to go. Wait a second, guys. Yeah, and because it’s very hard to separate drones, quadcopters, out from the model aircraft, yeah, we’re all just tossed in the same boat together. Yep, and unfortunately, like I,

[00:36:39] Hate to say it but that kind of makes sense to do it that way because I don’t know how else you would.

[00:36:43] Actually do it. I mean it. I genuinely feel like the fa with, with ama’s input and the modeler’s input that we were allowed to give submit input. Yeah, I feel like this is. This is just me personally. I agree with you 100 this. Like if it weren’t for drones, they would have left us alone. Yeah, we’d be fine, but okay. So this is where we’re at and I feel like me personally. I feel like this is.

[00:37:14] Probably because it is so difficult to separate model, hobbyist- whatever you want to call it- flying scale airplanes from radio controlled drones. That’s what they are, because it is so difficult to separate them. I feel like we’re at the best compromise, probably that we could get, even though I don’t like it. I don’t like it, as we’re going to hope for. Yeah, I don’t like the fact that the faa is involved and telling us what we can and can’t do. But, in all,

[00:37:46] Honesty the effects are minimal so far yeah I agree I really appreciate the faa let me figure.

[00:37:55] Out how small I can write my information. Yeah, I fly almost exclusively scale aircraft. I don’t want great big ama numbers and address all over the airplane. A lot of my aircraft are incredibly small.

[00:38:09] Writing on the hinge lines inside the hinges yeah well on the bottom you do what you got to do.

[00:38:17] I mean it’s on there but it’s legal you don’t might need a magnifying glass to read it but hey it’s on.

[00:38:22] There come to find out I can write really small nice that’s that’s a good thing well good skill.

[00:38:29] Dave, kudos to you for at least following the, the guidelines and stuff. There are no numbers, there are no names, there are no addresses on any of my airplanes, inside or outside, and that’s a foul on me. It’s mostly because I’m lazy, but kudos to you for at least at least doing that. I won’t say:

[00:38:49] Any, but most of mine don’t. I went so far as to laminate my faa card. I did too. Oh really, I did. Oh, I haven’t even printed mine and my trust certificate also. That I haven’t done yet. I need to get that done. It’s beyond simple. I know you can’t fail it. Oh no, I mean you can’t. It’s a typical federal test. You can’t fail it. We just have to have proof. You took this and pass. I’m not even sure.

[00:39:14] Where my trust certificate is I know I printed it but I can’t remember where I put it mine’s on my.

[00:39:19] Computer desk still because I haven’t moved it since I took it and printed it months ago but.

[00:39:25] To be fair to be fair do how many people have asked me for it exactly zero yeah that’s how.

[00:39:32] Many will ever ask you for it. Yeah, yeah, I get it. That’s. It’s unfortunate, but what we play by the rules, don’t we mostly? Yeah, mister, I don’t have my information on any aircraft I know, and that’s because I’m lazy. That’s not faa, that goes back ama, it does like. Well, no, my ama number is.

[00:39:52] Inside it can be inside yeah it doesn’t have to be outside yeah but it’s it’s the yeah the.

[00:39:58] My whatever that drone number is yeah I don’t put my ama number inside the airplane anymore I figure.

[00:40:05] I got my faa number on the airplane close. That’s probably enough to get it. Yeah, and I understand. Yeah, so what’s your number, by the way? That’s by the way. Yeah, that’s what prompted that conversation.

[00:40:15] Yeah, let’s see what we come up with. Earlier was 40 something flyable? Yeah, yeah, I mean he’s got us beat. Yeah, it’s not fair, but you guys got a big in the kit department. I’ve only got four kits. We’ll.

[00:40:28] See. What that says about you, though, is that you build them. Buy a kit to build and you build it, and I’m lazy, I haven’t haven’t built a kit in a while. Yeah, you’ll, to be fair, two of those kits. I

[00:40:40] Actually got in a trade and don’t even want them the gm plastics mooney 201 I have no interest in.

[00:40:46] It. What is? What is that? So it’s a low wing cherokee like yeah, yeah, but the moonies are known for their- well, they’re- great ride qualities. I used to fly one way back when, so, like full size, real life. Okay, yeah, I’ve got a few. I’ve got like 15 hours, I think, in a 201. Anyway, the tail is uniquely shaped: instead of, instead of being sort of tapered to the aft, it’s tapered forward. Yeah, it’s swept forward, so it has a leaning forward, trailing edges on the. Really it’s a unique looking airplane.

[00:41:15] Why don’t you want to build that? Civilian stuff doesn’t do a whole lot for me, not to say I don’t do any civilian stuff, but the mooney just no real interest in it. You don’t like world war one stuff. World, I got everything up to, including f-15, so I fly from 1905 to- oh, you’ve got an f-23.

[00:41:36] Don’t you it’s a foamy oh it’s a 22 okay or yeah 23 I’m thinking the yf-23 but yeah f-22 yep now I do.

[00:41:45] Have plans for a yf-23, really, yeah, in a foamy, yeah, bark flyer setup situation, but haven’t built one yet. Cool. And then I’ve got that circus hobbies at6, back when circus hobbies out of las vegas, the casino people- yep, same people used to make radios too. Circus hobbies, yeah, used to do radios and kits. This thing, quite frankly, is almost piece for piece. The old top flight texan, really those are.

[00:42:14] Actually really valuable right now at least the top flight texans are spun aluminum cowl in it really.

[00:42:21] That probably weighs five and a half pounds. Yeah, it’s a little heavy, probably, but it’s a unique kit, but I’m just really not interested in doing a texan anytime soon. Yeah, plus, this thing is really old. Yeah, but all complete though it’s a complete kit. It’s never been molested at all.

[00:42:38] Nice see now we’re talking about going up to toledo you should take some of your stuff up there and.

[00:42:44] I should, I really should. Yeah, the, the, the booth or booth the table, rent’s really cheap. Yeah, isn’t it like 10 or 15 dollars? Yeah, I didn’t think it’s very much. Yeah, it’s very reasonable. I.

[00:42:54] Think, yeah, it’s especially for the number of people. I think three, four hundred miles, I get that, yeah, we’re going just to buy. I mean, I’ve got the expedition, but oh, we can fit lots of stuff in that.

[00:43:07] My new one is the short one it’s not the el anymore yeah you can still fit a fair amount of stuff in it.

[00:43:11] More than what we can fit in tommy’s car and definitely more than what we can fit in mine.

[00:43:15] So yeah we just need to talk Reggie into taking the suburban I hope he does I don’t want to pay.

[00:43:21] The fuel to the suburban. Oh, they’re not that bad. I used to have no, no, no, he’ll. He’ll pay for it, don’t worry about it. This trip is on him, right? He doesn’t know it yet. He doesn’t know yet. But

[00:43:31] Reggie, this trip’s on you and we appreciate that. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Actually, it’s not a bad idea. Maybe we’ll go in on a table, because I don’t really have that much stuff that I would want to get rid of, but I could probably sell a couple of kits, yeah, but I

[00:43:45] To pay for other is it worth I mean who’s gonna sit at the table I don’t want to sit there.

[00:43:51] All day I want to go around between all of us somebody we just rotate out yeah that’s true.

[00:43:55] Nah.

[00:43:59] So yeah the at6 never planned on building that okay but yeah the list of stuff that’s.

[00:44:06] Like ready to go is to me awesome impressive yeah compared to our dinky little lists which I’m.

[00:44:15] Looking at the list here, I think, with the exception of a few of these, obviously, like the one you just finished and I don’t think I’ve seen, I don’t think I’ve seen your gws p51- yeah, it’s hanging on the

[00:44:31] Curtain rod in my work room there, but I mean, I’ve never seen it fly. I should say no, it’s been years since I’ve flown it. It’s got a. Originally I started out with a that motor mount he gave you earlier. Yes, I originally used that aluminum motor mount in there for a brushless motor which quickly burned up. So I got digging around. I found a speed 400 and a gearbox, oh dear. So it’s.

[00:44:53] Been converted to a speed 400 and a gearbox. Nice huh. Oh, yeah, I have something for years. Yeah, I’ll say I bet that does pretty good with the speed. Yeah, it’ll rip it right out of your hand. Yeah, yeah, go ahead. No, go on, because, as I was going to say, the speed 400 motors are were basically those weren’t the cobalt ones, right? No, this was the. So they were a four like a 480 size. Can, right, these were the Hobby Lobby 380, they’re 380s, 380s. Okay, yeah, powerful, so cheap and cheap. Yeah, that’s the best kind.

[00:45:25] Yeah, so going down your list, I see a lot of these scratch built foamy airplanes. They are gorgeous, by the way. You’ve done a great job on all those. Talk us through how you do that and what goes into making something like that. So before I get into that, what for people that are listening? These are not like dollar tree foam board airplanes or anything like that. These are actually carved. Is that fan fold foam or whatever you want to call that? Like the extruded foam that you somehow make look like an airplane installation under layman? Okay, yeah, now these.

[00:46:02] Are not to clarify further. Yeah, these are not your profile flat pieces of foam such that from a distance it looks kind of like an airplane. These are actually three-dimensional, like fully fuselage, yeah, with an air foiled wing. So, yeah, take us through the- actually the air foiled wing.

[00:46:21] They are flat plane wings I taper the leading edge okay so forth yeah I was just thinking about.

[00:46:28] The flat. Yeah, I was thinking about my t38. I was like no, I’m pretty sure that’s a. And then I started thinking about it’s like oh okay, yeah, the, the leading edge has been rounded, and but yeah, yeah.

[00:46:38] Well, I started building these 16 years ago. I had my operation I had my leg removed due to cancer and I had to have some something to do because I just can’t sit still yep. And I had no money because I wasn’t working- working eight weeks. So this was really cheap to do. I can buy a bundle of fan fold foam for 30 and that’s enough foam to build 20, 30 airplanes. I mean it’s

[00:47:08] Ridiculous. So if you guys need any fan fold foam, I’m seeing me, we’ve got a supplier, I’ve got. I’ve got quite a bit still and I love the f15 eagle. And I found a set of plans for a park flyer pusher f15 on the internet, downloaded it, printed on my eight and a half by eleven and used a lot of scotch tape. Yeah, the first couple I built actually transferred the patterns onto a poster board and used that to make the patterns. Since then I’ve discovered repositional spray glue, so now I don’t.

[00:47:42] Even bother with the poster board. I just print my plans and gloom to the foam, right to the foam, yeah. And then they just peel right off and started dealing with those. I built one for myself and I built one for tommy. At the same time the f15 was a little leery of it when I went to first fly it and it flew right out of my hand, making a hard left turn, which I found is due to the gear driven propeller that uses just all the torque. All the torque turns it to the left. It goes up and to the left real hard every launch. But it’s reliable, it’s going to do it, yeah. And

[00:48:15] Really enjoyed that one, so I went and downloaded some more plans. Next one after that was: what did I do? I guess it was the f4 phantoms which I no longer have. An f4 tommy still has his.

[00:48:30] Though I mine flies so nice I love that plane I do too that’s gorgeous flies so and it looks.

[00:48:37] So awesome and because, well, I mean, it looks like an f4, it does. Yeah, you get these things 20 foot out. Yeah, perfect, yeah. And even though it’s a pusher, it has the, the prop in the back and even though they- well, because you went to a brushless outrunner as opposed to the, to the, to the gear driven one, the prop spins so fast it just disappears. Yeah, it paid the motors to match. Yeah, and they, oh man, and- and the thing is the funny, you say you don’t have yours anymore. You build them exactly the same. In fact, you may even have built them at the same time.

[00:49:09] Yours and mine were built exactly at the same time. I did not build a tommy’s plane and dave’s plane. The parts were interchanged as I was building them. The only difference came when it was time decal, because your decals are different than mine, my markings. Other than that, I built them exactly.

[00:49:24] The same at the same time: same motor, same speed controller, same servos, even ever same location for all of that gear. And they flew completely different. Yeah, mine was like, yours was a pos and mine was.

[00:49:37] Mine is awesome, and the same thing now goes with the migs. You both, you have a mig 21. I’ve got mig 20 once again, built exactly at the same time. I love my mig 21. Yeah, I like flying mine too. I don’t think.

[00:49:49] Mine fly is quite as good as yours. No, I think mine fly is just slightly better. Yeah, but it’s still. I mean, they are for what. They’re made of fan fold foam and so, and they’re not. They’re not just blue. Like dave goes through the process, he paints them, puts the camouflage on them, we put the, the markings on them and exactly, you get. You get this thing 20 to 50 feet away in the air and they look like the real airplane and they’re so much fun to fly. Yeah, and they’re low cost. I don’t think.

[00:50:18] I have a hundred dollars in any of them yeah very low stress so that’s all carved then what do you.

[00:50:23] Use to carve it. Believe it or not, they are not carved. Oh, this is one of the few hobbies that being a little on the pudgy side comes in handy. You can actually roll just like you would roll tubing and a tubing bender. Yeah, I do the same thing with a piece of pv pipe and my fat belly.

[00:50:44] And you can literally you can just curl it right around you can induce a bend into the foam yeah and.

[00:50:50] That’s awesome that bend if you get if I eat the right lunch yeah so then you can hold that.

[00:50:55] That in shape because there is some structure on the inside yeah they’ve got formers yeah formers.

[00:51:01] Then lock everything in place. Yeah, oh, I didn’t realize. I’ve never seen the inside. There is a little carving: the nose, cones and so forth. Those are slabs put together and then shaped, but for the most part the fuselages are either slabs or rolled. And then what like is that quarter inch? Or what thickness? It’s roughly quarter inch. I think it’s the metric equivalent of: yeah, okay, which is, I think, six millimeter, but he does carve the pilots, not. Well, mine looks like a penguin. I switched, I went six millimeter, rc, I think, used to have the vacuum form pilots and I bought a bunch.

[00:51:34] Of those. Oh, okay, because, yeah, the, the pilots- really mine- still have the awesome pilots. I’ve still got a penguin in the f15. Looks like a penguin, wow, oh, I kid because it really looks awesome. It looks like a.

[00:51:47] Penguin. But that distance? But yeah, when it’s, when it’s whizzing by it at a whopping 40 mile an hour, is that a penguin? Flying that silhouette looks like a fighter pilot with the, with the hose on the on the helmet and everything. Yeah, it’s cool looking. You shouldn’t have them black. And

[00:52:02] White though they probably should I can carve a block of balls and did pretty much anything except.

[00:52:07] For a human except a human figure that’s so difficult that’s why I mean it’s hard to do people.

[00:52:14] Well I wouldn’t even attempt it myself I’m just well I’m just not that talented so I’m not that.

[00:52:19] Patient well there’s that now I scratch built a wright brothers engine and I think it looks pretty.

[00:52:24] Good, I think it looks fantastic with the pictures. Can’t do a simple 12 scale bust well, just have Ron 3d. Oh, that reminds me speaking. I’m sorry, I was just going to talk about 3d printing. I saw somebody on- I think it was probably one of the grips I follow on facebook. They had 3d printed and I don’t know how they did it, but it’s foam somehow 3d carved maybe. I don’t know, but it was a silhouette of themself and then they painted it to make it look like so it was actually them.

[00:53:00] The, the individual in their airplane, which I thought was really- I’ve seen that down in the profile- cool. No, this was a full 3d print with the guy had like a ball cap on and he painted or had somebody paint it to make it look like him and it was awesome because it was him in his airplane. Yeah.

[00:53:17] I would like to do that, but the scanning part is what’s difficult. Oh okay, like- and it’s been a while since I looked at it- it used to be very expensive or very do-it-yourself to get a good scanner for scanning any object. So I see, yeah, they used to use like, oh shoot, what was it? The microsoft connect, I don’t know. You remember the thing that used to like, if you had a mic, oh yeah, with the xbox or something, they used to use those and somehow, actually somehow use the sonar or altars, whatever.

[00:53:49] Was on that to kind of scan it in with whatever is on there. But I didn’t want to spend the money on one of those back then and I haven’t looked into it to see what is out there now, but that

[00:53:59] Would be awesome. Yeah, I just I don’t know. Sorry that we’re talking about the. You said 12 scale bust and then I thought, oh, busted, but oh wait, this 3d. Yeah, that’s how my mind I’d print a small.

[00:54:09] Picture or not a picture a small bust of me just for you to hang in your bedroom yeah I think that.

[00:54:14] Would be worthwhile. Yeah, I think so, sure do it. So I’m still looking at dave’s ready to fly list. I’ve seen almost all of these fly except for: yeah, if not, I don’t think I’ve seen that p51. I think I’ve seen all the park flyers, the vampire- I’ve seen, obviously the right flyers, new. So it hasn’t anybody seen that one fly yet. Do to do I and decker? Yeah, I’ve seen that one. That’s he’s got the.

[00:54:45] Hangar 9 t34 he does yeah I’ve seen the fly it’s gray hard to see same one same one as you had.

[00:54:52] Though, right, it’s exactly the same. His is gray and mine’s yellow. Oh, okay, mine is flaps and his has flaps. Why didn’t you do that? It was built when I got it, so was mine. When you added the map, it was that’s old airplane. It was given to me, okay, so I’m a slacker. That’s why mine doesn’t have.

[00:55:09] I got the gumption one day to run the band run the wing through a bandsaw and cut it in half.

[00:55:15] Oh, no kidding. Yeah, yeah, that was hard to do, I’m sure. Okay, here we go. So then, when you, when you went to rejoin, or did you rejoin him? I mean obviously you rejoined it, but did you go with a two? I can’t.

[00:55:27] Remember you didn’t do a two-piece no it’s back to one piece it was the epoxy and fiberglass back.

[00:55:30] Together. Okay, so you didn’t put a dihedral brace back in. No, okay, I got you real good epoxy job and fiberglass cloth, yep, and that’s enough. I mean, let’s be honest, yeah, that’s plenty. Those aren’t that big.

[00:55:42] Flaps made a huge difference it lands so much better now yeah that’s the that’s the only.

[00:55:47] Complaint really I ever had with the- with the yellow one- is that it ate up so much runway, especially on landing, because you just wouldn’t slow down mine now it takes way more to take off.

[00:55:56] Than it does I went with scale three blade prop and the three blade mine has the three blade on it too.

[00:56:03] What motor do you have on yours SuperTigre 45 yeah see tommy’s got that cheap little evolution.

[00:56:08] I’m not a fan. Here we go. Evolution, here we go. I’ve never heard of a good evolution, but I’ve never seen an evolution run as good as the one that’s on my. You get a good one, you got a great one. Yeah, you got a bad one. You got a bad one, yeah. And I bet it’s been so long since that engine has been ran- I bet it’s probably the bearings are probably shot by now, I’m sure.

[00:56:28] I haven’t seen that thing fly for two or three years at least no it’s been more than actually well.

[00:56:33] Actually I’m afraid to fly it now because the, the canopy is brittle, that plastic mine’s yellowed quite a bit. It’s yellow, but now mine is very brittle like it’s like you touch it and you can just see the, the spiderwebs, spiderweb cracks and that’s unfortunate I really. We had talked about Ron and we talked about making a, making a plug and maybe vacuum forming our own one day, and I would still like to do that. But one day we have to make a vacuum form machine first. I know anyway, I bet we could sell a few of them. I bet there’s lots of folks out there on maybe not.

[00:57:07] Lots I’ve been lazy, that’s. I know somebody’s got a vacuum form machine about 120 miles away from here. Yeah, I know I want one in my garage though. Well, Ron has one. I have one. It’s really small for pulling those canopies for those park flyers. Oh really, it uses my shop vac and my wife’s oven when she’s not.

[00:57:23] Around yeah that’s what we or what yeah I’ve got one I’ve never put it together but I’ve got well.

[00:57:29] But I mean it’s the same principle yeah hook up a shop vac and use the oven to see I made one of those.

[00:57:33] A while ago on my CNC machine. I don’t like saying that for some reason, but I did it. It worked okay, but it was just so like I need a vacuum that sucks more. I think that’s the problem, okay. So you need to pull more vacuum. Pull the filters off your shop vac. I didn’t have. I. I did like that. One didn’t have it. I just might not have had a good vacuum. I don’t know. It could be, and maybe I had some. Maybe you need a dyson. Some of those things never lose suction according to dyson. Oh, I’m just

[00:58:05] Saying some of us don’t have two of them but anyway rich really you got to go there what that wasn’t.

[00:58:12] My you brought it up though so yeah I feel just yeah reluctantly we have two of them I didn’t.

[00:58:19] We have an upstairs one and a downstairs one. It’s so nice. Sorry you’re such a jerk going through your list. One of the things I actually love watching you fly- I’ve seen it a couple times- is your parafoil like. That’s not I like- once again, I like things that are so unusual that you don’t see all the time. Parafoil is great to fly. It’s a pain to get going though pain in the butt to get airborne. I watched Reggie try and do it and he actually crashed. I don’t know how you do that, but

[00:58:49] Actually flying, missing a leg. I cannot launch it myself because you have to take two steps with it. It’s just the mechanics of getting the airfoil up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I just can’t do it. No one else seems to be able to do it on a regular basis. I’ve got people that can do it, but not consistently. Yeah, so once we do get it airborne. It’s a wonderful flying aircraft. It has to be pretty calm. I’ve got to put some nav lights and so forth on it so we can fly it well into the evening.

[00:59:18] And it’ll cruise around for hours. It seems like on that battery that’s in it. It’s a lot of fun to fly if you can get past the launch stage. Yeah, once it’s launched, it’s pretty.

[00:59:30] Simple, yeah, and landing is easier, you just chop the throttle and do nothing that. But like I said, though, that is just such a neat looking airplane, well, not airplane, neat looking aircraft or aircraft, aircraft I like. Like I said, I like different, it’s just it’s.

[00:59:47] So cool to see it. It’s very relaxing to fly. Yeah it and my, my little eagle. Same thing. You get it airborne and it’ll just cruise around, so gentle and easy. I up at streeter last fall- the evening was calm- I literally set it up on glide approach: chop the throttle, put the transmitter on the ground- nice and hey guys watch this- and it just cruised in.

[01:00:13] And gently touched down that’s awesome I didn’t know you had two d7s I mean I knew you had the big one.

[01:00:19] I’ve got the big boss usa quarter d7 and then I’ve got a. I bought it toledo many, many, many years ago, hobby barn. It’s 40 size. It’s got a 65 asp four stroke in it- mine actually. Once it chewed up the lifters on the second flight. It’s been a great motor, oh really. Yeah, they didn’t harden the lifters, they were soft and it chewed them up. And of course all that metal went through the engine, tore up the ring, tore up the bearings. So basically I had to rebuild a brand new motor.

[01:00:53] They weren’t warranted, of course, but after that the only problem I’ve had with it is the plastic throttle arm is busted off. So I think it’s jv welded on now but it flies great. I don’t know if I bet.

[01:01:04] What? What color is that one? It’s red. It’s like all the islands. Yeah, huh, I don’t know if I’ve seen that one. Yeah, you probably have it. I have flown it for a few years. Yeah, of course, the p40 I’ve. I’ve not seen it fly, but I’ve seen it at least it’s made a 20-foot flight. Yeah, the corsair, the fms corsair. I don’t think I’ve seen that one fly.

[01:01:28] That’s a new one from last year. Okay, currently it’s down because fred broke the tailwheel off of it. Fred, fred is the dog, by the way. Yeah, make sure people know that I was putting it together and sideloaded the tailwheel assembly. Oops, snap. So it’s flyable, but there’s no tailwheel, so I

[01:01:47] Need to get that fixed mm-hmm so the midwest aerostar that’s not your original one is it.

[01:01:52] That is not my original, okay. That one I bought for the son-in-law or son-in-law grandson to learn on, and he learned on that, and then it’s been sitting in the garage all that time.

[01:02:08] Yep but it’s a great flying airplane and then the dancing wings eagle I don’t think that’s.

[01:02:15] Yeah that’s an eagle I just talked about oh okay I got it last summer as well okay because you guys.

[01:02:20] You’ve got a park flyer eagle too. That’s the one I thought you were talking about. No, oh no, you’re talking about the eagle. It’s actually an eagle like the bird. Oh, like the bird. Oh, yeah, yeah, I.

[01:02:30] Forgot all about that one yeah it chased it chased the turkey buzzards off the field they.

[01:02:36] Weren’t real fond of it yeah that’s awesome I’ve not seen that I forgot all about that one it’s a.

[01:02:41] Great flying airplane it’s a cheapy it’s 90 from grace and hobby with all electronics and you can.

[01:02:49] Build it in an evening wow that’s actually you have a p-47 started I didn’t know you started it.

[01:02:56] It came pre-started, okay, yeah, well, that’s allowable. Well, yeah, you still have a kit. It doesn’t count against you because you didn’t start it. I have a wing and a partial fuselage and the rest of it’s in a box, which I don’t know if I’ll ever build it. Yeah, it’s one of those trading. Yeah, and it’s.

[01:03:15] A red box and it’s a red box. Yeah, now if it was like the gold edition kit, those actually you can. You can actually build one of those in a reasonable amount of time. But the red box kits, they are very.

[01:03:25] Very labor intensive- and the four page instructions. Yeah, and this is my second one, though, so it should go faster. Yeah, it might be missing a canopy. I’d have to go through the box. It might be missing a.

[01:03:37] Canopy. Yeah, so you and I, like over the years, we’ve been to trade shows and the chicago, you, the, the- I forget what it was called at the at the very end, yeah, but like, at the very end it was called something. I was like urcha or whatever. Anyway, like over the years, we’ve noticed a significant decline in the turnout and the representation of the manufacturers. What, what would you attribute that to? Like? I mean, I have my own like thoughts on that, but I’d be interested to

[01:04:08] Know what you think. Well, a lot of it, I think, has to do with the internet for local hobby shops, because they just can’t compete. Yeah, stock wise right now, I’d be just happy to have a place that stock glue. Yeah, right, I ran across this: the lack of builders. There’s just, there’s builders out there. It’s all our. It’s not nothing against ours, right? I don’t either, not really, but my brother was looking for a sanding block the other day. Cannot find a sanding block. Yeah, that’s impressively.

[01:04:40] Sad, yeah, unless he wants to spend five thousand dollars on a great plains contoured sanding bar on ebay, which that’s, yeah, that’s, that’s another conversation, but no, I feel. I feel similar like the advent of the internet and online shopping and the, the proliferation of chinese made goods into the, into the marketplace. It’s. It’s hard for hobby shops to keep.

[01:05:10] Up and to make money because the margins were slim. You remember how slim they were. Anyway, get rich, yeah, and so manufacturers are reluctant to spend the extra money to display their wares at expos and things like that. So that yeah, the general decline I think in that sort of activity, in the hobby. I can. I can certainly agree that the internet sort of ushered that.

[01:05:39] It’s great, I can get all kinds of weird stuff. Yeah, very easily. Yeah, but I can’t just go to my local hobby shop and pick up wheel colors. I need wheel colors. Right now I don’t have any. Yeah, well, and that’s.

[01:05:51] That’s another. I mean, that’s another part of the hobby that I feel like that is suffering the what we talked about earlier. At one time, we had three hobby shops here just in just in our little town and big places like st louis, chicago. They just had a hobby shop on every corner, it seemed like. But thanks to thanks to the internet and the ease of shopping online and the how a manufacturer can now have something made overseas and at a really

[01:06:21] Inexpensive, where labor is not very expensive, and then and then, so I agree it. It started, I think, with the internet and then when, when, when chinese kind of entered the marketplace, I think that was sort of the, the demise of the local brick and mortar hobby.

[01:06:42] Shop and the shows that went along with them. See my problem, though. Like you can buy cheap stuff online, I would have no problem paying a little bit more for that cheap stuff if it was in a hobby shop like why wouldn’t? What is wrong with carrying a lesser brand in a hobby shop alongside your good stuff? Because some people want the expensive stuff that they trust and all this kind of stuff, depending on what you’re.

[01:07:07] Flying. I don’t mind the two dollar servos. Well, and I think I think you’ll- you’ll see a shift like so. Let’s take Dynamic Balsa, for example. It’s owned by brian and brian’s been in the hobby. It’s well documented. We interviewed him and he’s been in various parts of the hobby for many, many years and he’s he’s sort of what I would call old school. He’s holding on, like I am and like most of us are, holding on to those old values we want. We want.

[01:07:38] Top brand. We want top flight this, or great planes that, or hobbyco this or whatever. And if it doesn’t say dynamite on it or whatever great planes, then it must not be good. I think you’re going to see a shift like in the next few years, like hobby shops are going to start, I think, doing exactly what you’re talking about. They’re going to be like: okay, well, we can’t get batteries in a cost effective manner such that we can make money anymore from this supplier here in

[01:08:11] The us, but we can get them from here and they seem to be almost as good a quality, but the price difference more than makes up for the little bit of lack of quality. So we’ll start stocking these and then eventually, stuff that wasn’t name brand is now going to be name brand. I see what.

[01:08:30] You’re saying, but my like to quote an old song that don’t impress me much: like name, brand stuff has never really been a big thing to me when I was doing car like: okay, so my neighbor and I we used to have a track set up here. We used to run rustlers. He had the tracks set up, the millennium whatever, whatever brushless set up on his car. I had the cheap. I don’t even know what the brand was, it was some off-brand kind of thing we like there was no difference in how fast our cars were. He did not.

[01:09:09] Pull me. I did not pull him. It was set up really close to being the same. It was more expensive for him to replace the bearings in his motor than it was for me to buy a whole new motor, so I would just keep a spare motor or two on and if something happened, then I have a new motor, throw it on in five minutes and you’re back out racing. Right, he would. I mean, if something happened to his when the bearings went out, you’re done for the day. Yeah, and it happened just as often to him as it did to me. So it’s not like there was a quality difference in that either. So I don’t name brand doesn’t impress.

[01:09:41] Me as long as what I have for branding within the hobby industry as well. Oh, that’s true. I have a charger that I bought from chinese over importer. I’ve seen the same exact charger in a different paint scheme with different stickers on it at least five different times. Oh yeah, for much more money than I.

[01:09:58] Paid for. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and the electronics in that charger probably came from, if not the same, a very similar production line that the electronics that go to and that went into a name brand charger. What I’m saying, yeah, but what I think, what I’m getting at is, like my generation or generations of my age or older, we, we tend to not trust this or that because it doesn’t have this or that name on it, whereas maybe your generation or younger, maybe they don’t they.

[01:10:31] Don’t have that association because they haven’t been around. What I’m saying like, yeah, great planes isn’t a well-known name among maybe your generation, whereas dave and I, somebody says great planes, we go right immediately to memories we have of, of flying great planes, airplanes or buying great planes, hardware or whatever, because great planes was like for the longest time. When you’d open up a magazine, it was great planes, this great planes, that top flight, this top flight. What I’m saying, yeah, no, I understand there’s that association, I think, but what so? What I’m saying?

[01:11:03] Is like, as time goes on, the, the older generation, I don’t want to say we die off, but we get out of the hobby whatever and it’s not as important to us anymore, whereas the new generation coming in, they don’t have that name association with those brands and it doesn’t even have to be a brand what I’m saying, but that’s so. I think you’re going to start seeing bottom line. I think brick and mortar hobby shops are going to adapt. Well, I hope so. I mean, like I, I think that’s.

[01:11:29] One of the things that could have been done to maybe keep one local here, because, like I said, I would have no problem paying a little bit extra to a local guy that would stock it. And if I need five servos I can run in and just pick it up that day. Right, I have no problem doing that. But I’m not. If I can get the same quality of servo online for a fifth of the price as I can going to a hobby shop. I can’t afford to do it that way and spend the extra 100 bucks on servos when I have no noticeable difference. And there’s it’s, there’s nothing in it extra for me? Yeah, that’s, I don’t know that’s.

[01:12:05] How I look at it. Yeah, so one more thing I wanted to ask, dave: so Ron and I have talked about here and there on the podcast about things that have like influenced us, and Ron has his stories and I have mine. Like, what sort of things influenced you like in the hobby? Like I remember as a kid seeing names like phil craft and doc matthews and all these other guys that were like really influential as far as, like, aircraft design and

[01:12:40] Things like that and there’s. So every time I saw that name pop up, it would like grab my attention and I would read it right. So did you have any influences like that? Not really well, I was working the.

[01:12:51] Hobby shop for 17 years and seeing things come and go and seeing other people have an experience with something that’s like- maybe I’ll avoid that- where that looks a lot of fun and it’s working out. So we’ll try that. Yeah, okay, I was self-taught heli. No one around here was flying helicopters when I taught myself nice, yeah, it cost me a few set of rotor blades, but right after that I got to the point where I could fly around fairly reasonably and not crash. Yeah, so pretty much, it’s just I really haven’t had that many influences. Yeah, it’s neat that the hobby is so small back in the day.

[01:13:26] Going to the hobby, trade shows and stuff, meeting all these big names in the industry, mm-hmm, and going to dinner with them. The yeah, they’re big shots, yeah, but they’re not.

[01:13:38] Yeah anybody that doesn’t know what an RC airplane is they’re just the guy next door right.

[01:13:43] To those of us that do. It’s like: yeah, most of those, most of those people who were responsible for the direction of rc were just regular guys. They had a passion for model airplanes and they did everything they could and used the skills that they had to guide them, and but they were just bottom line. They were just regular guys and gals doing stuff. Some of these big names in the hobby.

[01:14:07] Industry are being ran out of a guy’s apartment. Yeah, there’s a major retractable landing gear company here, not too far from us, and his entire facility is in his apartment. That’s amazing, well, phil.

[01:14:23] Craft, I mean kind of the, I mean- for lack of a better word- the godfather of digital proportional radios. He had help, of course, but he ran his complete operation for the first few years out of his garage, produced who knows untold numbers of radios right out of that one car garage. It’s crazy.

[01:14:44] Yeah, that’s cool. One more thing I wanted to bring up: dave actually had a correction for us from the stick episode last time or the time before, whatever. Okay, about the crosses that were on.

[01:14:57] There. Oh yes, all right. So your crosses that are on your big stick, ugly stick, dot stick. Those go back to the, because that is a very stand way. The bleep off scale, right, eindecker.

[01:15:14] Oh, okay, yeah, and the eindecker was a german, yeah, yeah, and the markings? I’ll be darn okay. So there you go see a very, very, very standoff scale model of an eindecker, which was, of course, a german war plane way back pre, I mean like early 1670, early, yeah, wow, crazy that is. And that was the. Those were the markings.

[01:15:38] Around. Thanks, dave. Yeah, appreciate it. See, call us that one wrong. I like it. Yeah, definitely. I figured it was something german, though, because, ugly stick being the first name, I mean, if that was the first thing it was called, then that had to have something to do with germany. Yeah, so some one last thing for me.

[01:15:55] And then I’m not going to talk anymore I promise you bought or you are in the process of getting.

[01:16:02] Ready to use a magnetic building board? Oh yeah, that’s gonna be a new venture for myself. Yeah, all these hundreds of airplanes I’ve built in the past, I’ve all been built on foam and pins. Yep, very comfortable with the pin and foam. Yes, my cat decided it likes shredding my building boards.

[01:16:23] And foam isn’t cheap anymore. No, it’s not crazy, yeah. So I’ve got really tired of replacing that and I just happened to be cruising the internet and saw this thing about building with magnets and I know, and I know from years the ej lynn magic building thing that they used to sell. So I took and bought a bunch of magnets on him, ebay, amazon, amazon- and I downloaded the diagram for the fixtures and cut a bunch of these fixtures with the scroll saw, which I

[01:16:56] Probably should have came and saw Ron and his laser cutter. Yes, that would have been a lot easier. It would save me an afternoon of making sawdust, but that’s all right. That’s what this hobby is all about, exactly. And so I have all my fixtures. I’ve got them all polyurethane. They’re pretty, furniture grade, looking things nice, which I don’t know why. Because they’re gonna get, because you glue and paint, because you can, because, yeah, I’ve got my, my 22 gauge sheet metal laid out on my table so we’re ready to use this. But I got to find something simple to start this one. I don’t want to start with my quarter scale.

[01:17:30] False usa camel so no find a quick simple easy project to try these out on yeah something.

[01:17:37] Something simple and boxy. I will be interested to see how that turns out. Yeah, me too. I’m I’m reluctant to change myself, but if it’s a big change, yeah, it’s a huge change. I mean, like you said,

[01:17:50] For years and years away. That’s a good thing. Well, I’ve got an extra sheet of foam out in the shop. If you want to take something home with you, oh, there you go. That’ll be your parting gift, hopefully that I won’t need. I’ll bet you never know. All right, you really quick. Do you have an adjusto jig?

[01:18:07] I do have an adjusto jig. See there’s another one. Do you use it? Use twice and it’s in the rafters in my garage. Oh yeah, anyone wants to borrow one, they can do it, but I’m going to hang on to it for the

[01:18:17] Next double taper wing. Yes, yep see, they are good, definitely good for that, yeah, and they’re good at building fuselages too. We built our dualist feels few little dualist fuselages. I’ve built three wings on them and you did. You built three wings for one airplane on yours. Flat bottom world war one stuff’s.

[01:18:35] Pretty easy to build on the table yeah I would think so yeah the next double taper that’s where they come.

[01:18:41] In nice okay well is there anything else you want to say before we get out of here dave just thanks.

[01:18:45] For having me guys, no problem. Yeah, thanks for agreeing to have us give you the third degree. Third degree- I was going to say fifth and then in my head I was like he’s not right, so but yeah, I enjoyed having you. Thanks for thanks for doing that. Every lane here makes Ron feel.

[01:19:00] Really young and childish. No, I, just because he is. I tuned out a couple times, it’s okay. No, I’m kidding anyway, all right, well, thanks for coming on. Yeah, thanks, dave, until next time, I’m Ron.

[01:19:11] I’m Tom. Good night. Good night everybody. Hope you enjoyed this episode of the RC Plane Lab podcast. For topic suggestions, to ask questions or to give any feedback, connect with us at rcplanelab.com or email us direct at either Ron at rcplanelab.com or Tom at rcplanelab.com. You can also text us or leave us a voicemail at 818-351-9846. Please subscribe, rate and review us on your favorite podcast app. Until next time, may your landings be gentle.