Ep 18: Storing Airplanes, Ron is Cursed, and Listener Questions

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[00:00:35] Hosts: Ron and Tom. Hello everyone and welcome to the RC Plane Lab podcast. I’m Ron and I’m Tom. On today’s episode, we’re going to be talking about how to store airplanes. I’m also going to talk about how I think I’m cursed due to a recent problem I had charging a battery, and we’re going and we’re going to be reading and answering some listener questions. Don’t forget to head on over to our website, rcplanelab.com, click on the shop button and get some really cool RC Plane Lab merchandise. And also, while you’re there, don’t forget to sign up for our mailing list. So I’m ready to get.

[00:01:10] Started, are you, Tom? I am so storing airplanes. We’ve talked a little bit before about what to do, like with batteries and, and that before you’re getting ready to put your airplane away and store it for either a short amount of time or a long period of time. So I’d like to cover that just a little bit again. But I also want to talk about how do you physically store your airplanes. Do you hang them from the wall, do you hang them from the ceiling? What? What do you do? And how do you make sure they’re ready for the next time? You’re ready to fly, and how do you?

[00:01:42] Make sure that you don’t mess them up just when you’re storing them so let’s start with you.

[00:01:48] What do you do? Oh well, so I have a pretty small area that I work out of and I’m constantly finding new and innovative, if you will, ways to store the airplanes. So I’m I’m in the basement of my house and this is my shop and my also my storage area. So I try to store the airplanes neatly. Number one, because I don’t want to be causing the infamous hanger rash and hanger rash- if you don’t know the term, it’s dents and dings and holes in monocoat that are not caused by flying.

[00:02:24] It’s usually caused by running into it with something in the storage area or hanger. So therefore, hanger rash. But you just, you just sort of have to come up with what, what space you have and what is the most convenient for you and myself. I sort of built a little like wing and fuselage rack, that I sort of stood up against one of the walls with shelf brackets on it that are lined with foam and I just simply rest the airframes on that phone on those foam brackets, kind of.

[00:02:57] Laced together, if you will, so that they’re out of the way. There’s no chance of them getting hit by anything and most importantly- well, maybe not most importantly, but importantly- is they’re off of the landing gear, out of. Round wheels are like one of my major pet peeves, and you can avoid that. You can avoid getting out of round wheels by not storing them on their gear, like not letting them rest on their wheels, especially over winter. With the foam wheels, they’ll tend to develop.

[00:03:31] Flat spots and that’s annoying to me, especially if you’re flying off of a paved runway. It that noise they make and it’s just irritating. So I try to store them such that they’re off the gear and anything that they’re sitting on or suspended from it’s cushioned in some way. I like the monocoat over balsa. Balsa’s pretty soft right, so it takes impressions pretty easily even with monocoat on top it’s. It’s not actually very hard to put a dent in monocoat covered.

[00:04:04] Balsa. So anything that you use to suspend your model or rest on or rest it on should be padded somehow. So on the airplanes that I have sitting on brackets, the brackets are. I’ve taken pipe insulation and kind of split it and glued it over the brackets so that the airplanes are sitting on foam. So it’s nice and soft and cushiony. It’s not going to make a dent in the in the airframe and so that’s my wing and fuselage rack. Everywhere else here in the basement they’re suspended from.

[00:04:37] The ceiling and they’re suspended by a fairly lightweight nylon rope and everywhere that rope contacts the airplane- well, I shouldn’t say everywhere, everywhere that weight is going to be bearing against that rope, I either have a rag or some kind of foam or something so that rope is not digging into the airframe- excuse me, digging into the airframe and causing a, a dent or a mark or whatever. So that’s sort of how I store my airplanes. I don’t like kicking them around on the floor and

[00:05:13] Things like that, just simply because I don’t have space for it. Now, some folks they have whole rooms dedicated to their airplanes and they can. They can rest them on the floor, and some places, like some friends of mine, have enough space to actually not even have to take the wings off their airplanes and they can store them right there on the floor or on a pool table or whatever. And if you do it that way, that’s fine. Just if you can make it so that the wheels aren’t bearing the weight of the airplane over the winter, because they’ll develop flat spots and that really

[00:05:44] Annoys me. Yeah, I learned that the hard way, actually from you, because I had an airplane that I had gotten. It was sitting out for quite a while and I had no clue that the wheels would get flat spots in them, and so I’m, I’m pulling it out of- I don’t remember where it was sitting, but I was pulling it back out of there and it was just doing the thump, thump, thump, thump, thump, thump and you’re like, did you store that with the wheels on the ground? I was like, yeah, why not? And you told me that’s why they go out around from, from the weight sitting on them. So, yeah, I don’t do that anymore.

[00:06:16] I’m kind of in the. I’m kind of in the same realm, I guess, as you with the, with the racks and all that stuff that I use to store, and, and you’re right with the, the pipe wrap, I think you can usually buy it in like what three foot sections or something like that, and I just cut it down to the.

[00:06:31] Length. I need some of the smaller stuff. You can get in like 50 foot bulk rolls of it, and I think that’s what I, what I used when I built my, when I built my rack. Here is, I think I.

[00:06:42] Just bought a roll of it oh really I still have some here yeah there it is over there so well the.

[00:06:48] Stuff is. This is the self-adhesive stuff that I have. It’s actually not round, it’s a wide flat strip. Oh okay, you can wrap pipes with it because it’s self-adhesive. Well, the stuff I have, the stuff I have.

[00:07:02] Is round and it has the whole. It almost looks like a like a smaller pool noodle. It might be two inches wide all together and then it already has a slit in it so that you don’t have to worry about trying to slit it. And then the stuff I bought actually has a double-sided tape in that slit to where you can pull the face of that off and then kind of stick it to what it’s actually sticking on. So the rack system that I have, that’s actually stuck to it and that way it doesn’t come off when you pull your airplanes off. And yeah, that works really well. I just have them screwed to the two by fours in the wall. That way nothing’s going to fall.

[00:07:36] And I, I am the same as you. I, I use the rafters in the unfinished part of the basement where I store them, and some of the smaller planes and wings will fit up inside the rafters, and that gives you a little bit of extra height too. But I use, instead of like rags and stuff, I use a thicker wire. Well, not wire, a thicker rope. That way it’s not. It doesn’t have so much pressure on that. One single point, and the airplanes I have hanging up there are light enough to where I don’t.

[00:08:04] Have to worry about that. So well, I laugh because I would like to use the thicker rope, because I know exactly what you’re talking about, but I’m not very good at tying knots, and knots that I tie tend to come untied. So the thinner rope- I can actually tie a knot and then I take a lighter and burn the ends and make sure that it doesn’t come untied. But yeah, yeah, the thicker rope is- is probably a better, better idea than what I do. But all the stuff I have is sufficiently padded and I learned that lesson the hard way. Pad that thin rope. I have an airplane looking at it right now, one of my little.

[00:08:38] Foamies. It’s got a rope mark around. It looks like it’s been tried to sever with a rope or whatever, but I did want to make a note about so. Like I, I also try to store my airplanes such that the ones I fly maybe the most often are the ones that are easiest to get in and out. Yeah, that’s a good idea, so like, yeah, so like airplanes that I know I’m going to be storing for a fairly lengthy time, I’ll store them such that they’re really out of the way and

[00:09:12] Maybe a little less convenient to get out, but which is okay, because I don’t get them out that often anyway. So your storage solution, whatever that is, should take that sort of thing into account. Your most frequent or favorite flyers ought to be the most accessible. Yeah, and that makes.

[00:09:31] Complete sense. You want to be able to get to what you need quickly so you can go out and get to the field as fast as possible after work. Yes, with a minimum amount of hangar ash, exactly. And speaking of knots, so I guess I’ll admit I don’t know how to tie knots very well either. So next time you’re over you’ll have to come back and actually look at the knots I have, because they’re quite embarrassing. I know one knot and I just tie that knot like over and over and over again to make sure it doesn’t work. So I guarantee you I will not critique your knots. Oh, I did that’s. That’s bad. I’m sorry.

[00:10:08] Some, some of the knots I have. Some of the knots I have are literally two to three inches long, just over and over and over tied. Hey, as long as it doesn’t come untied, I, I will not, I will not poke.

[00:10:19] Fun of you or poke fun of you because I cannot tie a knot and then most of the time just to make sure.

[00:10:25] That it doesn’t come undone, I also take the torch to it, melt it a little bit and then just kind of push it together. Okay, all right. Oh boy, that’s embarrassing, but yeah, well, because what would be?

[00:10:37] Worse. I mean, what would be worse than for an airplane to fall from the rafters and crash because not came undone? That would just be awful I it’s so easy, I guess, to get.

[00:10:49] Online and look up how to tie knot. I don’t know, I never thought about doing that, but I guess I’m just calling myself out. So if you see them, feel free to make fun of me. They’re not pretty, not pretty, but they will hold an airplane up and I did it too, so I’m not pretty, whatever anyway. So when you store your airplanes, is there anything special you’re supposed to do, like with receiver pack batteries, like the nimh batteries, right? So in the battery episode we

[00:11:22] Talked about that. You should definitely so. As you said back in that episode, the nimhs tend to self-discharge and of all the types of batteries, they were like the worst. Remember correct? Yep, I, yeah, I do kind of remember. Yeah, so it’s been a while ago, but I remember I know. So, on your on your nimh and your nycads too. If you’re still using those, you really ought to peak them occasionally, like throughout the winter or the storage or whatever. You ought to pull those.

[00:11:55] Batteries out of the airplanes, which I would do when you put them in storage anyway, and then label them like as to which airplane they came out of. So you have a quick handy reference when you go to put them all back in the spring. But while they’re out of the airplane and maybe put them someplace convenient- and especially the nimhs- give them a peek once a month, once every other month or whatever, just to try to keep them topped off they. I’ve seen some guys that say no, you don’t have to do that, but then I tend to think if you keep them peaked, they.

[00:12:29] Don’t do that self-discharge thing, number one. And they don’t, even though they say they don’t develop memories. You’re not going to reduce the life of the battery by letting it self-discharge to almost nothing and then try to bring it up again. And I mean we could get into a whole long conversation about formation charges and all that sort of stuff, and maybe someday we’ll we’ll get into that. But it’s just me. Me personally, and my experience has been that if I keep them topped off throughout the winter, they serve me better the following season. So that’s what I do with that.

[00:13:04] And nickel camions I. I sort of treat them the same way. Even though they don’t self-discharge as bad, I do try to repeat those periodically throughout the storage season, whatever that is. So that’s what I do. I ideally I pull all the batteries out and usually they’re already labeled, because I pulled them out the last season. But if they’re not labeled, I’ll label which airplane they came out of and then I’ll put them in a convenient place where I will see them, where they will remind me: hey, we’re over here, give us a charge so that I can do that in the off.

[00:13:40] Season now, like we talked about with the lithium type batteries, well, specifically lithium polymers, those, do you want to talk about that, because you’re really kind of more knowledgeable?

[00:13:53] On the newer battery technology than I am well for those, the and I- I don’t remember the exact, I think it’s 3.8 Or 3.85 Volts of cells what you’re supposed to take them down to, so I don’t want to get into it again too much. But when you’re not flying, when you’re going to be storing those batteries for a long time, taking them down to their storage charge- and most of these chargers will do that- that’s going to have a setting on there to take it to a storage charge and they’ll discharge it down and make sure it’s balanced right, correctly, at the right, right voltage. That

[00:14:29] Way it doesn’t kind of eat itself and degrade itself so quickly. So keep them at storage charge when you’re not going to use it for a long time. Now I will admit I don’t necessarily do that unless it’s going to be like a wintertime kind of thing where they’re sitting over the winter. Most of the batteries I have that I use, that I use decent amount of time that I use often will end up. Just I keep them fully charged when I gonna, when I drain it, I go.

[00:15:02] Ahead and I just charge it up so it’s ready for the next time. Batteries really are kind of cheap enough to where, if I- if I’m taking even 50 charges off of it by storing it for shorter amounts of time at a full charge, I’m okay with that. I would rather have them ready to go when I’m ready to go than me wait on, or then have me wait on charging them and getting them ready when I’m ready to go fly. Yep, that’s kind of how I feel too. There’s best practices on how to make.

[00:15:35] Your batteries last a long time, but they don’t necessarily line up, or they don’t necessarily line up with making it to where you can fly when you want to fly. So there’s there’s there’s pros and cons of doing it both ways, but I, I usually just keep mine fully charged, ready to go, except for during the winter time, so that’s how I, how I store those. And then most of the time too, I, like I said before, I keep mine in the refrigerator, low, low humidity and a cooler temperature, where you’re supposed to store those so minor- in the fridge, waiting for me whenever it’s it’s time to

[00:16:06] Go out and fly my basement’s fairly, fairly cold and dry, so I don’t put them in the fridge, but they are in a in a cool, dry environment, so I think I’m okay with that. Well, yeah, and you are. And if I

[00:16:18] Didn’t have the extra refrigerator out in the garage, I would not do that either. I don’t put it in a refrigerator that we use every day. So it’s not like I said, it’s not stored with the broccoli or anything like that, it’s, it’s in its own little it’s tote and stuff out in that garage. So but you don’t eat broccoli? Yes, I do. I love broccoli, especially in general. So’s chicken, oh my gosh.

[00:16:38] That’s so good. Oh, that is, that is pretty tasty. All right, so we could. Yeah, that’s so our next, our next episode. What Ron likes in his general, so’s chicken.

[00:16:51] Oh, maybe, of course, carrots. So that’s that’s what I do with batteries now my, my lithium ions, my a123s, whatever you want to call those, those I, just when I’m done flying them, the last flight of the season, or whatever- and I come home, when I’m putting the airplane away, I’ll go ahead and top them off and I don’t have to mess with them again until the next season. That’s why I’m such a big fan of those batteries. They’re just, they’re almost foolproof, if I could say that.

[00:17:21] Just make sure it doesn’t bite you but yeah almost foolproof there you go I said almost I didn’t.

[00:17:26] Say they were, I mean I’m a fool. And they haven’t bit me yet. So almost foolproof, not yet. And then so I mean that’s you take the batteries out and store them. How you’re going to store them? In the refrigerator, in the refrigerator, or however you do that. And then I give me personally, I’ll give the engines one final run, usually the last flight of the season, or if I haven’t flown that airplane at all this season, I’ll just treat it.

[00:17:58] As if it had already been ran, ran all, run all the fuel out of it, obviously, just like you would at the field at the end of the day, and then I just I lube them up real good. I’ve got that mix that I use as after run oil. It’s no great secret: 50, 50 trans fluid and marvel mystery oil, and I give them a good dousing with that and then, through the carburetor and some through the glow plug hole, flip it over a few times and then plod up a paper towel and plug the exhaust with it and close the throttle and that’s it’ll be good.

[00:18:32] Till spring. Yeah, so there’s, there’s not too much to getting them ready for the next year. Then there’s, it’s a little bit of time, but by taking care of them you’re going to make them last longer. And by storing them correctly- not having the not leaving the lines on it from your racks or from your, from your rope- then you really can’t tell that they’ve been stored and how they’ve been stored, because you’re not leaving any marks on them. And that’s that’s the end goal. You want to keep them running as long as you can, exactly, yep, yep, so anything?

[00:19:01] Else you want to cover on storage. No, that’s that. That pretty much covers how, how I store my airplanes. Just a couple of key things: don’t don’t let them rest on the gear, unless you don’t mind flat spots on your wheels, in which case if I see them, I’ll make fun of you and lube the engines and take care of the batteries. I mean, it’s pretty simple.

[00:19:21] Yeah, there’s not too much to it. So just keep them flying as long as you can and keep them in your hanger as organized as possible and keep them clean. Yeah, okay. So let’s move on to my cursed battery story. Yeah, I’m actually. I actually am excited to hear about this, yeah, so okay, I swear, I think somebody’s made a voodoo doll of me and somehow brought me some bad luck. Okay, somebody has brought Ron some bad juju. Yes, thanks, whoever you are. So I’ve been charging batteries for years.

[00:19:56] And never had a problem. Yeah, I feel like what you’re doing. Yeah, I do too, but apparently I’m cursed. So like, actually it’s a little bit scary because, because between the problem I had, if you remember, the, the charging LiPos for that small quadcopter a few weeks ago, and what happened a couple days ago, like it’s, it’s scary because I’ve never had problems with batteries before. So here’s my story and I haven’t told you about this yet, so maybe you can tell.

[00:20:26] Me what I did wrong although I don’t think I made any mistakes but maybe you can pick up on.

[00:20:31] Something so oh if I spot something you did wrong trust me I’m gonna tell you.

[00:20:37] So okay, so I started going through that trainer plane I have. This is the one I talked about needing to go over several episodes ago so that we can take it out to the field because one of my son’s buddies wants to learn how to fly, which, by the way. I still feel really bad that we haven’t been able to go out there, because cody- that’s that’s my, my son. He asked me back in the beginning of march if we could teach his friend to fly, and I told him, sure, we’ll go out once it warms up. I never imagined we would be going through all of this right now, but anyway, so I got a bit derailed, it’s okay. So I saw the plane still had a battery in.

[00:21:14] It. So I put it, I put it on the charger to cycle it a few times, like actually hold on, I’m gonna derail myself again. So how do you charge the batteries that are in your airplanes we just talked about? You store them, you take them out of your airplanes, but do you have any that you keep in your airplanes? And- and like the reason I ask so, do you have any extensions or do you keep, like the airplane, close to the charger? So I have a couple of, I think it’s like eight or nine foot.

[00:21:46] Extension cords that I cut the ends off of and I put dean plugs on and it really like makes it easy to charge airplanes from far away, like I can put the airplane on the floor and easily reach it with a charger when it’s on the workbench. So I made I- I think I made those like a few years ago so I could charge planes when we were at the field with the charger hooked up to the car battery and I didn’t have long enough cord to be able to charge from there. But I mean, like I figured, it’s only a couple amps, so the size wire and extension cords should work perfect and not mess or not mess with anything.

[00:22:20] Is that how you do it or how do you charge a battery when it’s still in the plane.

[00:22:26] So full disclosure: I am terrible about removing batteries from airplanes when I put them in storage. I mean, I know, I know, I know I’m I’m a hypocrite. I tell you to do one thing and I don’t do it myself. And on airplanes where it’s convenient for me to pull the batteries out, I do. Okay, I’m not, I’m not going to say I leave them in every airplane I own. But there are some airplanes for, for balance reasons or what have you, they’re located in an, in a spot in the airplane that maybe is not.

[00:22:59] The easiest to get to or to get the battery out of. So, full disclosure: I do have airplanes that the batteries are semi permanently installed in the airplane. However they are, I do unplug them, obviously, and I do when I, when I charge my loose batteries- we’ll call them loose batteries. That’s the batteries I pull out and put on my bench here to remind me to charge them. When I’m going through the process of charging those batteries, I will also go through my

[00:23:37] Airplanes that still have batteries in them and charge those as well. So yes, full disclosure, I don’t pull all my batteries out and, good or bad, it is what it is, but when I charge them I don’t. I don’t use extensions, I don’t, I don’t do any of that. So I have a little table kind of in the middle of our basement that my wife is nice enough to let me use in that area of the basement and I’ll run my extension cord out to my. I have an ac dc charger that works off of dc or ac plug the charger.

[00:24:12] Into my extension cord. Three prong, okay, and I’ll use a standard length charge cord either, whether it’s a dean’s plug or a jst plug or the if it’s an xt. Whatever it is, it’s a fairly standard length. I haven’t made additional extensions to get to it. So I’ll place the charger close to the airplane so I don’t have to use an extension, or maybe I, maybe it just has to be close to the airplane because the lead isn’t long and that’s and that’s.

[00:24:45] And I take the airplane out there and I put it on my cool little robart foam cradle and that’s how I charge them when they’re in the airplane. So I know I don’t, I don’t use extensions or anything like that. Is there a reason you don’t or the reason I don’t use extensions? Yeah to be honest, no, not really laziness, maybe I just don’t feel like making an extension, probably. I mean, that’s probably the real reason, but I think in the back of my head, maybe a long time ago.

[00:25:19] Something happened with plugging something into an extension and the resistance. I mean. Granted, we’re not pushing a lot of amperage or current through the, the charge cord- hopefully you’re not with your receiver batteries- so the extra resistance of the wire is probably not an issue. But in my head, maybe something happened way back when where I may have melted a cord because I was pushing too much current through it and it was resistance was causing the heat and it may or may not have caught on fire. I don’t know. It’s it’s an old memory and I so. For that reason, I don’t. I

[00:25:55] Don’t do that. If that makes sense. Well, I say that a lot, but yeah, I, I guess I’m trying to, I’m trying to explain it so that it makes sense, and when I say it out loud, and I hope it makes sense, like well,

[00:26:11] I explained it sure. I just want to make sure there’s not something wrong with the way I’m doing it, because I’m I’m pushing it most when I charge an amp through it, something like that, and that’s. I’m not worried- yeah, I’m not worried about voltage drop or anything like that for something. So five volts or whatever it is, at one, well, I think, I think my

[00:26:32] Biggest concern is maybe not so much the, the current that’s going to the battery, so much as what the what the charger is reading, what the battery is telling it, if that is clear, like so as you’re charging, okay, no, I understand you now, yeah, okay. So I just think an extension, especially if it’s an overly long one, may interfere with your charger’s ability to pick up the peak, because maybe it’s not reading the exact voltage of the battery, because the resistance of the wire

[00:27:03] In my head that’s why I think I would not do it that way okay well I’m gonna have to look into that.

[00:27:10] Because I was on. I ended up. I was on a well, and I’ve done this before and I’ve never had problems, so maybe it was just bad timing, bad luck or whatever, but I was on an 18 foot extension when I did. You have to tell us what happened, okay? Okay, let’s get back on the rails. Sorry, you’re right, okay. So I’m trying to cycle these nimh batteries that are in this airplane, like I said before. Yeah, well, it was a four cell, but yeah. So, like I said before, the charger I have

[00:27:42] It discharges and charges up to five cycles. So I set it to discharge at half an amp and charge it half an amp. It went through the first set of five cycles. It was pretty fast, but each time it put in about 100 milliamp hours and was taking out nearly zero. Actually I think it might have been zero every time. So I started over for another five cycles after that round it was putting in about 200 milliamp. Give her out or give or take and still taking out. It was nearly zero, but most of the time it was.

[00:28:18] Maybe 10 or 15 milliamp hours, but the numbers were climbing so I didn’t think anything about it. I started it again for its next five cycles and within five minutes I heard the charger beep. So I went into the room it was charging in to kind of figure out what was going on. It was, it was in the room behind the wall how my basement set up, right where I charge and stuff versus where I work, yep. So when I looked at the charger it said that there was a short. So I went over to the airplane to unplug the battery from the charger and it had a dean’s.

[00:28:52] Connector on it is how they whoever had it before me had that battery set up.

[00:28:57] So when I grabbed the dean’s plugs to pull them apart, the leads came off the battery like the actual- yeah, the actual- wires that were soldered to the batteries came just right off the battery. Yeah, the battery had overheated so much that the solder had liquefied and the leads pulled just free. Well, at that point my brain went into stupid again and I just like stared at it dumbfounded, trying to figure out what happened, because never happened before.

[00:29:31] Well then, then I heard the magical hiss and saw the genie come out of the bottle. Now -huh I, I- I don’t think I’ve said this before, but the, the battery in that plane was in foam and screwed in under a piece of light, a light, light ply, where the with the receiver zip tied to it. So I, at that point, I can’t see the battery and I’m I’m still confused.

[00:29:57] It’s a battery I could hear it if you can hear your battery that’s bad just saying for anyone who’s.

[00:30:06] Listening, yeah, I could see the effects of the battery, but it’s it’s an nimh battery. It these are supposed to be safe. It shouldn’t happy or it shouldn’t happen with those. So then my mind starts wondering: is it a LiPo? Oh geez, because once again my, my brain, is still like in stupid mode. I haven’t quite reconnected it and I’m trying to figure out, like, what to do. I felt the bottom of the airplane and it was pretty warm, not hot, but warm, warm okay.

[00:30:38] And then another hiss and another puff of smoke. So that’s kind of when I figured out it might blow up and I better get it outside. So I made a beeline upstairs through the garage and outside which is then, unfortunately, with a hissing airplane. With a hissing airplane, which is then when I figured out it was raining outside, so then I took it back into the garage. My wife was actually out in the garage cleaning out one of the cars, and so I set this airplane on the back of the

[00:31:13] Golf cart and I told her, if it caught on fire, to throw it outside. But by the look on her face I don’t know if she thought I was joking or not, because I mean just that. Look like what are you talking about what? What do you mean if? What do you mean catch on fire? Wait a minute.

[00:31:33] So I ran back downstairs so I could get a small screwdriver to get the battery out of there. So I got back up, got my screwdriver and I was taking that little piece off so I could, I could pull the, that light ply off. It was holding it down. And then there was another hiss and another puff of smoke, the bottom of the plane was like really getting hot. And after I got the- yeah, after I got the receiver out of the airplane, the I, I took the foam out of the way and I could.

[00:32:05] See that there were four double a size batteries sitting in the bottom of the airplane. They were too hot to get out, so I asked my wife to run inside and get a pair of pliers so I could take them out of the airplane. Okay, so then, the genius that I am, realized that I just had to turn the airplane over and they would come out. So, yeah, so I took it all. Yeah, so I took it all outside in the rain and dump them, dump the batteries on the ground. They were hot, I mean like they were hot, hot obviously, and I dropped them in a puddle and the water around them like instantly boiled.

[00:32:41] Sizzled. Yeah, yeah, I could. I could barely make out what kind of batteries they were, but you could just see on the side just tiny, tiny print that hadn’t been messed up too much, that they were energizer. But really, by that point they were, they were mostly just like silver cans. So what, what? What did I do wrong? What, what happened? Tell me. Well, I’m hard to say it, may, you, may not have done anything wrong. Well, that’s, that’s what I’m thinking, but I’m I’m so confused by it.

[00:33:14] Well, so I have a story also. So my, my kristin eagle, here I. It’s electric powered but I use a four cell receiver pack for the radio because the, the batteries, the LiPo battery for this airplane is huge and scary to me, so I power the radio system with its own four cell nimh battery. And so I acquired this airplane from a friend a couple years ago and I haven’t- actually I flew it when he owned it, but I haven’t flown it in my ownership yet. So part of the spring process: pull everything.

[00:33:47] Out, and this is one of those airplanes where the battery is not conveniently mounted, so it stays in the airplane. So I same thing. I plugged it into my charger and hit start and it, and it almost immediately beeped at me: low voltage input detected. It’s like, okay, well, the it’s an nimh, it self-discharge, and now it’s at zero. So I did things a little bit differently. I don’t want to get into it, but I, I, I do what they call formation charging, which is on an nimh you.

[00:34:22] Can, especially when they’re at low voltage. You can charge them at a really low amperage- in this case 200 milliamps- and you can leave them on that amperage for a really long time. And more or less what we’re talking about is it sort of equalizes all four cells, like especially if the battery is completely dead, or at least dead to the point where your charger won’t recognize it as a battery and try to charge it. You do this formation charge and it brings them up very, very slowly and evenly so that they’re somewhat evenly matched and then, once that’s, formation charge has.

[00:34:58] Taken place it. It depends on the battery size and lots of other factors, but it takes a long time, 10 to 15 hours. Well, it’s essentially the same thing as plugging it in with the old school wall chargers.

[00:35:09] You remember those you used to get the wall warts that it always took like 24 hours to charge a.

[00:35:14] Battery or something. Yeah, and that’s about what those things put out was about 200 milliamps at any rate. So I did that and then I same thing as you. You did I was going to put some cycles on the battery to sort of wake it up, if you will. So I and I saw mostly so I could get a measurement to see where the battery was at capacity. Wise, right. So same thing. My charger- I don’t think it’s five cycles, I think mine does cycles of three. So same thing, same thing, exact same thing.

[00:35:44] Actually it cycled three times and I think the most it ever really took out or put in was maybe 150 milliamps it would put in and it would get like five out on the discharge cycle on each of those. Okay, yeah, I did that. Familiar, yeah, exact, exact same story, where my story differs is after the first set of cycles and the battery’s getting physically warm. Now I’m like, okay, I think I’m gonna stop there. So I unplugged the battery, took it out of the airplane and threw it away.

[00:36:18] My opinion is like you said just a little bit ago. But these batteries are cheap, so I’m not going to risk this airplane that to me I can’t replace because it was given to me by a, a very good guy, who’s no longer with us. I don’t want to risk the airframe to a 10, 15 battery, so I’m just gonna throw this thing away and I’ll get a new one, and that’s what I did. If I can’t get a battery to cycle in three cycles, then to me it’s not worth the aggravation of

[00:36:50] Trying to get it woke up and it possibly end up with a story like yours. Yeah, I don’t want to have a story like mine again either. So in my case, I don’t feel like I was doing anything wrong, it just simply was. I believe the battery was just done either one dead cell that was ruining the pack. Yeah, probably could have taken the pack apart and found the dead cell and replace it, but for 15 to me, or whatever the price of a four cell nicad is these days are cheap.

[00:37:23] It just wasn’t worth the aggravation to me. Yeah, and I, and I definitely agree with that. Like I, I didn’t think there was actually a battery in that airplane so I wasn’t planning on or I was planning on getting a battery for it. But when I saw there was one in there, I was like, okay well,

[00:37:39] Let’s see if we can take a charge. No, I get it, yeah, but after, after the, after the first 10 cycles, since yours does two five round cycles, right? You, you run your third one, right when it went off, correct? Yes, after, I would have given up after the first one, the first round. Oh, really well, because

[00:37:58] That’s just me, though. Well, and I and I don’t know, because I’ve had some before to where I’ve done it 15 times, and then those, those numbers are gradually growing and the, the discharge is getting closer to the charge, and that’s why I kept going, because the numbers were growing. But maybe I

[00:38:14] Shouldn’t have. So let me ask you this, sure? So if, in the back of your mind, you knew that it took three cycles- of five cycles each- to wake this battery up and to get any kind of capacity out of it, how confident would you be in putting that battery in, say, your p40 or some other?

[00:38:32] Really nice airplane. You’d be comfortable with that. If I got to the point after doing it several times like that and it was putting in 2000 and taking out 1950. Yeah, absolutely, okay, maybe that’s the.

[00:38:47] Wrong answer? I don’t know. I’ve never been able to get one. I guess I’ve never been able to get one to come back like that, so I guess maybe my experience is different that way. Well, and it’s, I’ve not done.

[00:39:00] It with a lot of them and I guess I’ve never started with one that was that low, but I have had several to where it’ll put in 600 and take out 300 and then next time might be 800 and take out 600 and it’ll work itself up over those 10 charge cycles. So no, I got it, but yeah, I, just I, I guess I’ve never, I’ve never had one do that to me and it’s it’s an mi or an imh battery that’s supposed to be a safe battery. So I never even thought about. Yeah, I never even thought.

[00:39:34] About it overheating, like that. I didn’t think to check the battery after, after I charged it a few, I just continued on and started over again. I mean it had some time in between when it was finished charging, finished, finished with its five cycles before I started the next five and so on. But I, just I was, I was very surprised, like the last battery I did this with when I did the five cycles. I want to say it probably took- oh it was well- over 24 hours to charge and

[00:40:05] Discharge that battery the five times and well that doesn’t surprise me because if a battery.

[00:40:11] Is good to go. It will take some time to take a proper charge and then to get you a proper discharge, so correct the fact that it takes 24 hours to do some cycles. That’s that’s actually to me that would be a good sign because it should take some time. But yeah, I understand that.

[00:40:31] But, like I said, that one was getting better. It’s not like it was the same numbers every single time I did it, so that’s why I didn’t think anything of it. I just thought it was slowly coming back. But yeah, so it’s scary, I guess I know with the vengeance so. So I know it’s off topic, it’s not.

[00:40:49] Rc plane related. But back in the back in the in, in my car racing days- rc car racing days- we used to use nimh batteries and we used to- I mean really honestly- we used to punish them. Like we had these trays that were designed to actually take these batteries down to nothing like it was a. It was a tray. You set the battery on and it essentially short-circuited every single cell and made it such that it was completely zero voltage, and then we would bang these things at 10 amps to get.

[00:41:21] The maximum amount of voltage and on more than one occasion I did have a cell vent on me. Now, I never actually saw them smoke, but I you could definitely hear them hiss and pop and sizzle, but, and of course, when you, when you’ve done that, you’ve done, let the power out of the battery.

[00:41:41] Well, and it’s possible. The smoke I saw was the foam getting hot and being melted and thrown up at me. I don’t know, but I- yeah, I saw the smoke. It’s interesting that you said that they.

[00:41:51] They were energizers. Yeah, are you sure they were nimhs. I couldn’t make it out, honestly, the all, the all the stuff that was around it was, I mean, I know, I know rayovac and energizers, I know they, I know they make rechargeable batteries. I’ve seen them in the market, but it’s just strange that would be in an rc airplane, because I’ve I’ve not seen a lot of people use energizer brand stuff in their, in their hobby quality airplanes. So well, maybe that was. But

[00:42:26] There’s no. I mean it would have to have been. Do you think maybe it was a nicad or something? Then you mean, no, I’m wondering if it was an alkaline. There’s no way it could have been an alkaline put in that plane the way it was. I mean, there’s no. I just I can’t imagine. You don’t think somebody

[00:42:46] Could have taken four alkalines and soldered them together into a cell into a battery I well I guess.

[00:42:54] I can’t say I don’t think anything at this point because I have no clue what somebody.

[00:42:57] Would do, but there’s no reason. I don’t know what would actually happen to a, to an alkaline, if you try to charge it, because I’ve never actually tried so I don’t know. Maybe they were the energizer brand nicads or nimhs, I mean, I know they’re out there but I’ve never actually seen.

[00:43:13] Somebody use them in a, in a model airplane. Well, and I don’t know, maybe I need to go look at them again, because I still have them. I haven’t got rid of them yet, but it’s I okay, like I guess to me, if I was going to use alkaline batteries in a plane like that, first off I wouldn’t, but if I was going to, I would use one of those, oh, the, the battery holders that you can just put, put them in and out of, instead of actually soldering it, because, like, I’ve soldered rechargeable batteries together before, but never, never a an alkaline, I just I wouldn’t even think.

[00:43:48] Of that. So I don’t know. Anything’s possible, maybe it’s. Maybe it’s on me and I shouldn’t have done anything with that battery and that’s why it hissed at me, but maybe I’m not cursed. Well, I don’t know. I.

[00:43:58] Don’t think you did anything wrong. I mean, your technique is pretty much exactly how I would try to bring back an a an nimh battery. So I don’t, I don’t think you’d, honestly, I don’t think you did anything wrong. I think maybe the battery was just done, or maybe it’s the wrong type of battery, not sure. But I don’t, I don’t think it was anything that you did. We, we talked

[00:44:19] About this airplane. Before that I couldn’t remember where it came from. Well, the guy that I got it from reached out to me and said that it came from him, but he got it from somebody else and never did anything with it and he had no clue where it came from beforehand. So, and that’s, that’s been several years ago. So who knows really what that battery was, or who did stuff with it, or what? So, yeah, we’ll just chalk it up as oopsie and move on, I guess, and that’s never happens again. Yeah, so, yeah, that’s all I have on battery stuff. So let’s you want to get on to?

[00:44:53] Emails and yeah, let’s do that. I think, I think that’ll be, I think that’ll be fun. Okay, so let’s start with so. After our last episode, when I said 400 foot is a is plenty high foot or feet, 400 feet, feet, 400 feet. So when I said 400 feet is plenty high for flying rc airplanes, a gentleman named rick reached out to us and said that sailplane operators everywhere, including himself, believe 400 foot feet, believe 400 feet is low altitude. I could see that, yeah.

[00:45:30] Yeah, I’m not at all familiar with sailplanes. I’ve never flown one before, so I had no idea, like how high they fly. So I asked him for some clarification and- and I’ll read his reply- he said he said guys fly cross-country with binoculars and several spotters to 4 000 feet. The record is twice that. He said I have caught thermals with my. Yeah, he said I’ve caught thermals with my four meter ship, sending from 300 feet to 800 feet in an instant. Large aircraft are not.

[00:46:04] Always hard to spot. You look at the way light reflects off of its wings. He said: you need a sailplane, bro. It will teach you so much about reading the air. Your normal rc skills will get tons better.

[00:46:16] So thank you, rick, for the clarification. I can’t imagine flying at 4 000 feet, but his message did remind me that I have an old Hobby Lobby. It’s a 2400 millimeter super dimona hanging from the ceiling in my shop. That I’ve never flown. Do you remember that one? Yeah, I do actually. Yeah, I think you were with me. Yeah, you were actually with me at the swap meet when I bought it, so like

[00:46:47] I said I’ve never flown it. I ended up just earlier today, did a little bit of research on it and I think I have everything I would need to get it flying. So I might get that down and try and get it ready for us remade nice might be. Might be kind of fun. Like I said, I’ve never flown a sailplane and I don’t know if that really fits his definition of sailplane, but we’ll see. So I think

[00:47:09] Definition of sailplane is: is like any, any aircraft that is not powered by some engine, maybe? Huh, oh well, it is powered by an engine. Oh, but you, you turn it off though, right, like once. You, it’s not a, it’s not something. You tow up to altitude and then off you go. You have to actually climb up with power.

[00:47:30] And then once you find your thermals and stuff and yeah, off you go. Yeah, so it’s. When I looked it for square foot wing loading, oh, that’s pretty light, yeah, and it’s almost an eight foot wingspan, I think it’s like 94 and a half inches. So it might be a fun little plane to try. I don’t know.

[00:47:50] We’ll see. Yeah, I like you, I don’t. I don’t know a lot about sailplanes and it and unfortunately they’re. I mean they are a good size segment of the hobby, but unfortunately I don’t own any and I know slope soaring is a thing too and we do have places around, like I think there’s a place down in southern illinois where there’s a pretty good contingent of slope soars, but yeah, it’s a, it’s a segment I think that gets forgotten about a lot and that hey, shouldn’t, because

[00:48:21] They’re model airplanes too, and yeah, they do, they do fly routinely. Yeah, 400 feet for them is a child’s play. I know one of our, one of our club members that has one of those. I think he calls it a motor glider. So it’s a, it’s a glider but has a motor on it that he can climb, and then he shuts it off and tries to find thermals and that sort of stuff and there’s, there’s a real science to that night. And I agree with rick: owning one of these things probably, probably will hone.

[00:48:51] Your, your rc skills. Yeah, I’m all up for learning more and trying to get better at it. So, yeah, maybe I’ll, maybe I’ll get that down and see what it’s like. Hopefully it’ll, maybe we both can learn with it. Yeah, I think that, I think that’d be cool. So, yeah, cool, so let’s move on. All right, oh, I’m so. I’m gonna apologize now for not being able to pronounce the name correctly. So if I, if I’m, if I’m really off, I apologize. I think it’s ant newham is who wrote in to us and he said:

[00:49:27] You’re doing a great job with the podcast, enjoying the journey with you and looking forward to what the future brings. You have one happy listener from australia. That’s awesome, right? So, ant, if I’m saying that, right, please? Thanks for the feedback. If I really butchered your name, I’m sorry. Reach out, let me know how to say it and I will definitely correct it. On a, on a future, smack us verbally, but be nice, because I’m sorry, I didn’t do it on purpose.

[00:49:55] Well, so, yeah, yeah, thanks for reaching out to us. That’s. I think it’s awesome that people as far away as australia are actually listening to us ramble on. I think that’s fantastic. Hopefully the stuff we talk about is universal in its language. Hopefully. So, if you’re listening, obviously in english, hopefully a lot of the anecdotal type stuff we talk about translates.

[00:50:19] Yeah and the dialect and all that but well that too yeah so cool so yeah so next we have hey do.

[00:50:27] You mind? Do you mind if I read andy’s no, this one, this one really kind of kind of hit me. I’ll just go ahead and read it. Andy says: hi. Just wanted to say thanks to you both. I love listening to you guys. I’m hoping to get back into the hobby this year, coronavirus permitting, having suffered a nervous breakdown from 20 long years in a stressful industry. Your guys’s calm approach is helping get my confidence back to start flying again. Thank you so much. All the way from the uk, the

[00:50:57] Podcast has had a huge positive impact on me. Stay safe and good luck with your futures. Yeah, so I just I just want to say, andy, thanks for that. That is in a nutshell. It is why I’ve been doing this, I think, so long. We talked about what keeps us going in the hobby and, yeah, like I, like I said in the last episode, you never know when you’re going to make a great memory and that and how, how this hobby is kind of therapy for a lot of us.

[00:51:29] So his, his words really kind of stuck with me and I’m I’m really thankful that stuff that we take for granted, even can, can impact someone in that way. So, andy, thanks for.

[00:51:44] Reaching out to us appreciate that. Yeah, this hobby can be very soothing and relaxing. It does have stresses that come with it, but still it’s a great hobby and I love it. So, andy, if you get back into it, send us some pictures of your first flight and let us know how it goes. Good luck, you got this. This is you can do it. So oh, yeah, yeah, thanks for reaching out.

[00:52:09] Yeah, so yeah, this, this, this next email was perfectly timed because it, because it showed up in our inboxes actually, I think maybe even the day that you and I decided that we were going to record the intermediate airplane episode. Yeah, so, if you don’t mind, I’ll go ahead and read. It says gary, says Ron and Tom just wanted to tell you how much I’ve been enjoying the show. I have been in and out of the rc space for 30 plus years, but had never built or flown a plane successfully until a couple of weeks ago. The irony is that I’m a private pilot, he says.

[00:52:43] My history with rc planes has been marred with bad choices of aircraft too small or too fast, flying fields too small and equipment. Penny wise, pound foolish. After your beginner plane episode I bought an e-flight apprentice sts trainer and it has been magnificent. I have worked my way from the beginner setting to the advanced setting in just a couple of weeks and I’m excited for my next plane. I haven’t heard you cover the intermediate airplanes. Is that a topic you guys can squeeze in? Before I do something stupid and buy a 60 millimeter edf f18? Anyway, he says the show.

[00:53:21] Has been very timely for me, as I have learned a lot from both of you. The transmitter and pre-flight shows were especially helpful. Before my second flight, I realized one of my aileron connectors had come loose and thanks to you, I figured that out before I took off. Thanks, gary. So yeah, we did cover the intermediate airplanes a couple weeks ago and hopefully we had some usable information for gary.

[00:53:45] Yeah, that’s awesome. I’ve heard several times that being an actual, like full-size pilot does not help with learning to fly rc airplanes, which is- which is kind of funny. I never really thought about it, but being like an rc pilot does help when learning or, like when transitioning to a full-size aircraft. I guess there’s something difficult about trying to figure out the reverse controls when the plane is coming at you as opposed to when you’re actually sitting.

[00:54:15] In the seat. I can actually talk about that just a little bit. Yeah, way back when I had I, I actually possess a, a license, and I do have some time in a cessna 150. So I do know and the difference is, is that seat in the pants feeling so when you’re flying a model, you don’t have that seat of the pants, you don’t have that equilibrium sensation by when you, when you roll after roll rider, if the airplane is

[00:54:51] Slipping. You don’t have that sensation, all you have is a visual reference. So that’s, that’s sort of the big difference. So, flying a full-size airplane, those are the sort of input that you, that you become accustomed to, and that’s how you sort of tailor your reaction to how the airplane is flying. And you have to, you have to learn it all over again when you’re flying a model, and really the only thing that helps going from full size to models is just basically an understanding of, of lift and

[00:55:23] How to control it. As far as the physical flying of the airplane, yeah, it’s a whole different, completely different process. So, yeah, you’re, you’re learning to fly again, essentially when you go from full size to.

[00:55:34] Small size so it’s it’s basically the same thing but nowhere close right exactly.

[00:55:43] Yeah and, and that makes sense, I mean, you don’t have that, the physical feedback. You don’t have the feeling that you get, I guess, when you’re flying an actual airplane, or, I’m sorry, when you are flying an actual airplane you have that and you don’t with the rc airplane. So, yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me and it’s: yeah, hopefully with the reversed controls when it’s coming at you. That’s a that’s a hard thing to get past too. Yeah, I, I still think starting out with rc cars is kind of an easier way of learning with that, because it’s the steering you’re not worried about.

[00:56:15] Up or down, but you’re still learning the steering left and right, yeah, because, yeah, it’s completely backwards when it’s coming at you is when it’s going away from you. So, yeah, but yeah. So those are just a few of the messages we’ve received that we wanted to share. I love the reach this podcast has. I we’ve had so many, or we’ve had feedback from so many different countries and I definitely wasn’t expecting that when we started this. So, right, yeah, it’s amazing.

[00:56:44] To me I’m coming how, yeah, how far, how far out. Just it’s amazing to me the people in australia are actually listening, listening to this podcast. I think that’s, I think that’s wonderful and that I think that just goes to show you how sort of universal the hobby is like. Yeah, we may fly different branded equipment, or yeah, we may fly fox engines here, what? Maybe not fox anymore, but and they fly something different- taipan or whatever over there, but in the end it’s

[00:57:20] It’s really the same and it and kind of brings us all together and I think that’s I think that’s.

[00:57:24] Really cool? Yeah, I think so too. So now let’s move on to a few listener questions. Okay, I will read this one and then you can reply to it. So james asks. He says I have a hanger 9, 15 cc carbon cub and I was wondering if you could recommend a size nitro engine that would be good for that size plane.

[00:57:47] Well, sure I can. So nitro right up your alley. Well, yeah, so the hanger 9, 15 cc carbon cub, in case anyone is not fooling with the airplane, I looked up the specs. I don’t own one, but I looked up the specs. Weighs about 11 and a half pounds, got a 90 inch wing, so that gives it in the wing areas, whatever it is, and it’s about a 22 ounce per square foot wing, loading at 11 and a half pounds.

[00:58:15] So which by the way that airplane is bigger than I thought it was I don’t know why I didn’t realize.

[00:58:19] It was as big as it is. Yeah, it’s a pretty, it’s a pretty good size airplane. It’s light for its size but it’s it’s a big airplane, yeah. So, having said that, those are the details, me personally, so I like two strokes obviously. That’s kind of what makes me tick. And given that size airplane, at that weight and the and kind of the, the desired prop size, that would fit that scale, if you will, of an airplane, I would say a good 90 size two-stroke motor would, would fly it really, really.

[00:58:53] Nice I. I don’t think os makes the 91 two-stroke anymore. I think their ax is maxed out at the 75 I think now, but lots of good 90 ones out there on the second hand market. So the os 91 or any of those 91 clones that were made by asp magnum- I think thunder tiger also made- made one, but any of those I think would be a great fit. That engine, a good 91 size two-stroke, turning a 15-6 prop would, would really make that.

[00:59:27] Airplane perform. However, it would be hard to beat the sound of a good big thumping four-stroke. And that bad boy- I mean a cub- it should have a four-stroke, it should sound like an airplane. So yeah, for that I’d have to say a 120 size. Turning that 15-6 prop would be would be a pretty good combination. The new sato 125 would be would be like the perfect setup for that airplane, I think turning a 16-8. So that’s kind of what I would recommend for that particular airplane.

[01:00:02] Cool, okay, so next we have hi, Ron and Tom. Congratulations for the podcast. I’m writing to ask you guys to talk about a subject I’ve never understood. It’s about the use of real redundancy systems powering receivers like the wolverine switch from fromco. Did I say that right, fromco? Mm-hmm, yeah, what exactly is it for? Is it also a voltage regulator? Is it worth using these devices and models powered with gas engines? Thanks a lot for your advice. Gino genaro rc. Airplane hobbyist.

[01:00:33] From sao paulo, brazil, brazil. That’s awesome. It’s so awesome that so many locations are listening. So, gino, thanks for thanks for writing us. So I’ll just touch on redundancy. So the, the purpose of redundancy, at least in full scale aircraft, is to have having an identical system to cover a potential failure of any primary system needed for safety of flight, for

[01:01:04] Example: yeah, the battery. Maybe that the airplane runs off of the magnetos that are used to fire the ignition on the engine, the radios that are used to communicate with tower and other airplanes instruments, for example, like the altimeter. There’s usually two of them in the airplanes in case one of them fails. You have some redundancy to cover you in that. In that.

[01:01:29] Condition. So and we can use redundancy in model airplanes too. Specifically speaking, we’ll use it for traditionally we just we do redundancy with the power so you can run multiple batteries powering your radio, but you can also use redundant switches, and if some guys on the more expensive airplanes they’ll even use redundant receivers. I’m not going to get into that, that’s a that’s a fairly involved topic with the with receiver but multiple switches. So

[01:02:03] A switch is a mechanical right. It’s metal contacts that you slide from one position to another and it relies on that mechanical friction, if you will, or contact of those metal plates or bars. And every mechanical switch has a. It has a lifespan. That’s, for example, let’s say it has a.

[01:02:24] Lifetime cycle capacity of 9 000 cycles. So sometime within that lifespan of that switch, that switch is going to fail because that’s what they tell you, that’s what its lifespan is. Hopefully it fails at the end of that and not at the beginning or at the middle. But you never truly know when that switch is going to fail. So having a second one, it’s not a bad idea to cover you in the event that thing should happen to fail and the chances of both of those switches failing at exactly the same.

[01:02:55] Time is pretty astronomical. So that’s why we use redundancy to protect us in situations where we may have a primary system failure. So specifically, the wolverine switch. Its purpose is to provide a convenient solution for multiple power input or redundant batteries for your radio. No, it’s not a regulator. It can be customized from fromco for your particular setup. So it means you can have

[01:03:28] Two batteries in, with three inputs out and one or three outputs- excuse me, and we- we kind of touched on it in our receiver episode, the receivers, at least spectrum anyway, which is what I’m familiar with. You can power that receiver through any of those inputs. So you can take two batteries and plug them into two different ports, and now you have redundancy: if one of those batteries fails, the other one is there to back it up. And then you can apply the same logic to switches, and that’s what the wolverine switch does.

[01:04:00] It takes two batteries, keeps them independent, provides multiple outputs to give you redundancy to your receiver. So it’s not a regulator. So you still, if you’re using high voltage batteries on a system that’s not designed to use high voltage, you still need to use a regulator. But basically, the, the wolverine switch is a, is a, is the same thing as their badgers, which, except it’s, it’s it’s dual input, whereas the badger is just a single input.

[01:04:32] If that makes sense. Yeah, so this kind of goes back to what I was talking about in our last episode- at least I think it was the last episode where I was talking about needing to be okay with losing your airplane when you fly it right. So while the redundant systems help minimize the risk, there’s always that unfortunate possibility that something will happen. Yes, so I have a smart fly power system- eq6 turbo plus- in my yak and the reason I got it- yeah, I know I you can say that again, but so the

[01:05:04] Reason I got it was because I had the problem with it, with the airplane, and it browned out and I almost crashed. I was told by the guy that owned it before that the airplane had successfully flown simply using a receiver with voltage regulators and match boxes. But as soon as I started flying with a little bit, with a, with more aggressive movements, the electronics just couldn’t keep up. So what that does is it’s very handy in the fact that it takes all the power away from the

[01:05:37] Receiver, so the receiver is not handling any of the power distribution whatsoever that’s all run through the board. So it’s it’s worth using these kind of things, especially on airplanes you consider to be expensive or difficult to replace with. With the redundant power supplies, no matter the engine type, whether it’s gas or gas or nitro, it’s a good idea to have some redundancy on a plane that you have a lot tied up in and that you don’t want to well, you don’t.

[01:06:14] Want to crash. I mean, yeah it’s, you want to protect your investment as well as you can. So yeah, it’s a little bit more expensive, but it’s kind of a little bit more insurance to make sure that you have redundant power supply or running things a little bit differently to make it easier on the electronics. Yeah, I hope that made sense. I don’t. I don’t know if I rambled a little too much. No, no, that.

[01:06:37] That. That’s exactly what. What, yeah? The point I was trying to make is: it’s definitely worth using this technology on an airplane you find to be valuable or difficult to replace.

[01:06:49] So, no matter what engine is on it. So yeah, I think I think we all probably have at least one airplane that we really value- oh sure, not necessarily like money wise, but that we just have a soft spot for that. We want to make sure doesn’t get messed up, and by using redundancies and all that in it, then you’re just kind of setting yourself up, hopefully with backups, so that something doesn’t happen- like with the, the, the smart fly switch I have in my yak too, like the power switches and stuff are fail safe.

[01:07:23] Switches where they fail safe to on. So if something happens with the switch- a lot of times with mechanical switches- you have to slide that over to turn them on, and then that’s what makes the connection well. If there’s anything that happens and that switch breaks, then it will turn off. So it’s it’s default state with those switches is off, whereas, like with fail safe switches, they default to on if anything goes wrong with them. That way you don’t lose power and you don’t have an issue when you’re flying right. Yep, so yeah, exactly that’s the definition of a fail safe switch. Yeah,

[01:07:58] Yeah, exactly, it fails in its safe mode, exactly. So, yeah, gino, thanks for the thanks for the question. Hopefully we were able to do that justice. If we didn’t, let us know, we’ll try again.

[01:08:12] Clarify. It made. It made sense in my head. So, yeah, me too, but I don’t know if it did to anybody else. Yeah, right, so we have one more question. This listener wanted to remain anonymous, which is fine. Okay, if you have questions, just tell us. You don’t want your name read, but they want to know how long nitro fuel lasts, and that’s actually. That’s actually a good question, because it’s a very good question. I have a can sitting over here that’s probably four years old and I was not sure if

[01:08:42] I should use that or not. So let me know well. So what I would say? When stored properly, our, our model engine fuel can last quite a long time. Actually, it’s the. The primary ingredient is methanol, which is alcohol, and, as everyone may or may not know, alcohol attracts moisture or water and that’s essentially hydroscopic. Yeah, exactly, and that’s what renders it- I don’t want to say useless, but useless. When you get water in your fuel, it tends to not do the things it’s.

[01:09:17] Supposed to do. So. Storing it properly will definitely prolong its life, and to do that. So there’s a couple of different things you need to remember: plastic jugs: even though they hold our liquid without leaking, they actually are porous on a microscopic level. Water and moisture can actually permeate through the plastic jug, rendering our fuel useless. So to help avoid, to help.

[01:09:47] Keep that from happening. Obviously you want to try to store it in a dry place and most importantly is, don’t store it sitting on a concrete floor, because there’s moisture in concrete and it will seep over time through that jug and ruin your fuel. So and then also store it tightly capped. Most of these plastic jugs are shipped with a like a plug in them under the cap. Yeah, so if you’re going to store your fuel for some time, go ahead and

[01:10:18] Reinstall that plug and cap it tightly the more moisture we can keep out of that the longer.

[01:10:23] It’ll keep so with the exception of moisture though it really doesn’t it doesn’t go bad over.

[01:10:31] Time it doesn’t break down. Nope, not at all. Now some lubricants will sort of separate out over time and I and I and I can’t remember which one it is. It’s either castor or synthetic blends that do that, and I can’t remember which. But ideally we’re not storing fuel over the over the winter because we’ve flown so much that we burned it all during the flying season and I just want

[01:11:01] To say, metal cans tend to fare better over time because they don’t allow moisture into the fuel and that’s really the only thing. That renders our fuel unusable is the amount of moisture that makes its way into it. So anything you can do to prevent that will make that fuel last a good long time. And having said that, if you have fuel that’s questionable, you’re not going to do your engine any damage. Really if you try to run it. Obviously you don’t fly until you’ve made sure that

[01:11:32] It’s going to be a reliable fuel. But put a tank of it in an airplane and run it on the ground. And if it runs good on the ground, chances are it’s probably going to run good in the air. So it’s not like you’re going to hurt anything unless it’s straight water. Then, yeah, you want to. You don’t want to go dumping that into your airplane, but if it’s questionable, put a tank of it in the airplane, fire it up. If it runs good, then you’re probably okay. I mean, I’ve got some fuel down.

[01:12:03] Here that I’ve had. Oh gosh, I have a. I have a ys blend down here from vp that I’ve had for quite. I don’t even own a ys anymore and I’ve had this fuel a good long time and I use it in all my four.

[01:12:20] Strokes. So if you have, if you have like a brand new bottle then and you don’t have it stored on concrete, then you, you pretty much- especially if it’s in a metal- can, you’re good, no matter what.

[01:12:31] I think so yeah, I mean I, I have yet to now granted I don’t. I don’t keep fuel around a very, very long time, but I’ve never had to throw fuel away. How’s that? And I’ve had some fuel around a long time.

[01:12:50] Many, many years, huh, yeah, well, this vp stuff. It comes in a steel can and I keep it tightly capped when I’m not planning on using it, and I’m pretty sure that I could probably pull the cap off of this and fire up this, this twist, with the old thunder tiger 91 and I bet it would run just fine. So but yeah, fuel, fuel will keep a long time if you keep the moisture out of it. Bottom line: good.

[01:13:14] To know so that brings us to the end of our questions okay is there anything else you.

[01:13:20] Want to cover. No, I just one last time. I want to thank everybody who wrote to us, emailed us or messaged. I appreciate it. I love the feedback, good or bad. If there’s stuff that we’re doing that you don’t like, don’t be afraid to let us know. Yeah, absolutely we want to make. We want to make the show better because we want you guys to listen and we want you to have your friends listen to us too. It’s just, it’s very rewarding when I when I get the or when I see the emails that people from australia and brazil and all these other

[01:13:54] Places uk are listening to us I think that’s I think that’s really neat yeah not to minimize.

[01:13:59] The all of the canadian listeners? Oh yeah, absolutely, and those are just the ones. The united states listeners and stuff, absolutely, we get a lot of those. Yeah, but yeah, correct. So, but yeah, I just wanted.

[01:14:11] To thank everybody for listening I think I think it’s really neat that people actually.

[01:14:15] Find what we talk about interesting. Yeah, yeah, that is true. We have a great audience, really, so don’t forget to tell your friends about us. Let’s get some more, let’s get a bigger audience.

[01:14:26] Let’s get some more people listening. So, oh, hey, by the way, I wanted to mention on our swag, you can actually buy face masks with our logo on it. Did that? I did. Yes, that’s awesome.

[01:14:41] I’m ordering one tonight. I’m just saying, well, hopefully we don’t need them much longer. But yeah, you’re probably good to order some. Yeah, I’m wondering they may. They might make a pretty decent dust mask when I’m down here sanding on my balsa airplanes. That’s a good idea actually. Yeah, I’m just saying there’s more uses than just trying to prevent the.

[01:15:02] Covid, yeah, there’s nothing worse than that cough you get after you sand a wing, and the older I get, the worse it gets. So, anyway, yeah, and you and you are getting old, so that’s gonna be really bad, right? So, anyway, that’s, that’s all I’ve got. All right me too. So, everybody, thanks for listening and until next time. I’m Ron and I’m Tom. Good night, good night.

[01:15:29] We hope you enjoyed this episode of the RC Plane Lab podcast. For topic suggestions, to ask questions or to give any feedback, connect with us at rcplanelab.com or email us direct at either Ron at rcplanelab.com or Tom at rcplanelab.com. You can also text us or leave us a voicemail at 818-351-9846. Please subscribe, rate and review us on your favorite podcast app until next time. May your landings be gentle.