Ep 19: Flying an airplane, Tom’s receiver problem, and Listener Questions

[00:00:04] Welcome to RC Plane Lab, a podcast for anyone interested in RC Airplane. We'll share tips and tricks on how to build models and talk about successful flights, epic crashes, and everything in between. Visit us at rcplanelab.com to sign up for our email list and to ask us questions. You can also text us or leave us a voicemail at 818-351-9846. Please help us out by rating and reviewing us in your favorite podcast app.

[00:00:33] Thanks for spending time with us today. Now here are your hosts, Ron and Tom.

[00:00:38] Hello, everyone, and welcome to the RC Plane Lab podcast. I'm Ron. And I'm Tom. So tonight's episode, or I guess this week's episode, is going to be a little bit different tonight for us because it's almost 9 o'clock in the evening when we're recording this. Yeah, and I have to work tomorrow.

[00:00:55] I don’t.

[00:00:58] Lucky you. Yeah. So we have a couple episodes coming up that have been, I want to say, a little bit more in-depth for research. So we haven't done a lot of research for this episode. So bear with us in what we're talking about. We're going to kind of go over, like, what we've accomplished, read some more listener emails, and kind of talk about some of the stuff they ask in that.

[00:01:22] Right. It'll be just more of us rambling, kind of like the other episodes, but more so.

[00:01:28] Yes, you can definitely ramble.

[00:01:31] Yeah, I do. Sorry.

[00:01:34] So we've covered beginner airplanes, how to pre-flight them. And we've also covered what a good second airplane would be.

[00:01:43] Yep. We also made suggestions for your first airplane.

[00:01:46] Yeah, that is true. We've never really gone over the basics of flight and how to fly an airplane. We kind of talked about doing this before and just kind of touching on it and not making a full episode of it. But we've never gotten around to it. So this is a good time for us to quickly touch on it, especially since we received the following message.

[00:02:06] Hey, guys. Thanks for the amazing content. I listen to you on Spotify at work. So I am a quadcopter pilot, and I want to get into the RC airplane world. Could you make an episode about how to pilot, land, take off, use flaps, and these basics? I would really appreciate it since I am kind of nervous about it, and it's kind of keeping me from flying a fixed wing. Cheers, Bardia. And I apologize if I mispronounced your name.

[00:02:33] So, yeah, we could definitely talk about how to fly an airplane.

[00:02:37] And we definitely will do that because anytime we can take somebody that flies quadcopters and bring them over to the fixed wing experience, the more the merrier. Amen. Fixed wing aircraft are not scary. They're just more complicated, I'll say, than flying a drone. Well, yeah, but there's a little bit more to them than flying a drone that flies itself.

[00:03:02] So, if we're going to talk about a four-channel airplane, because I would not go with a three-channel airplane, so we're going to kind of stick with four-channel and assume that's what everybody is going to learn on if you're trying to learn. So there are four major functions that are controllable on the airplane, hence the four-channel. The speed of the motor obviously affects the propeller speed. Propellers, by the way, are also called air screws.

[00:03:28] So if you ever hear somebody say an air screw, they're talking about a propeller. They work the same way as putting a screw into wood. as they turn, screws pull themselves through the material that they're in. So when a propeller spins, it's screwing itself through the air. I really like the term air screw, but it makes me sound kind of dorky when I say it, so I don't use it often.

[00:03:49] It really does.

[00:03:52] Oh, come on, air screw. How much cooler does that sound, really, than saying propeller?

[00:03:57] Well, I like the word propeller, but, one of the major propeller manufacturers is master air screw. So, there's legit logic in your reasoning.

[00:04:11] See, they have embraced it. Why can't I?

[00:04:14] You can. No one says you can't.

[00:04:17] Oh, except for everybody that laughs at me when I say it. So anyway.

[00:04:20] And call you a dork.

[00:04:22] Right. Anyway, working backwards from the front of the airplane. You have the ailerons on the wing, elevators on the horizontal stab, and the rudder on the vertical stab. So your ailerons control roll, the elevators control pitch, and the rudder controls the yaw of the aircraft. Now that we have that kind of basics out of the way, let's go through, takeoff, how you roll out a takeoff, how you do, banking in turns, how you land.

[00:04:51] So why don’t you walk us through that?

[00:04:52] Obviously, to start the takeoff roll, you have to have some forward momentum. You need to get some air flowing over the wings so that they develop lift. To do that, you need to move those wings through the air. And the way you do that is, obviously, you advance the throttle. So you advance the throttle and get the airplane moving down the runway.

[00:05:12] Which, if you're on a tricycle airplane, it's going to behave a little bit differently than a tail dragger. So you want to get on the throttle slowly. You don't just want to go, straight to full throttle. It will kind of twist you off the runway. You have that with, I guess, all airplanes a little bit. But especially, like, Cubs and all that are really affected by the torque of the engine. So you have to be careful when you're throttling it up.

[00:05:37] Right. Yep. That's a good point. You want to advance the throttle smoothly, not abruptly. And that will give you time to make small corrections as the airplane is heading down the runway. And so as the airplane is heading down the runway, gathering speed, you'll control that, left. You'll steer the airplane, if you will, on the ground with the rudder, which is going to be on your left stick along with your throttle.

[00:06:04] So to talk about the positions and how that translates on your transmitter, quadcopters, you fly them, to be honest, you fly a quadcopter more kind of like a helicopter than you do an airplane. So on an airplane, you've got the two sticks, and we fly mode two here in the United States. So on the left stick is going to be your throttle and rudder, like I just said. And your right stick, obviously, is going to be the other two functions, elevator and aileron.

[00:06:37] And throttle is up and down on the left stick, and your rudder is left and right on the left stick.

[00:06:43] So really quick, sorry, for mode one, then is the, like, the whole stick backwards? So is it throttle and rudder on the right?

[00:06:52] Exactly.

[00:06:53] Okay. I didn't know if they mixed anything different in there, if it was like elevator and aileron or whatever it was. Okay. So it's just completely backwards as to what we do.

[00:07:01] Okay. Yeah, they do things differently over there in Europe. That's where mode one is.

[00:07:06] Is that kind of like where they drive on the wrong side of the road, too?

[00:07:10] Exactly.

[00:07:11] So everything is mirrored.

[00:07:15] So for the takeoff run, before you get flying, you're going to basically be controlling everything about the airplane with the left stick until it gathers some momentum and steam and some speed going down the runway. Once it's reached enough speed, you pull back on the elevator, which is the right stick, and elevator on the right stick is up and down, and you pull back to go up.

[00:07:38] I mean, that's a very basic control function, and you'd be surprised at how many beginners get that wrong. So they think push up to go up, right? No.

[00:07:50] Yeah.

[00:07:51] You pull back to go up. And what that does, if you're looking at the airplane, when you pull back on the elevator, assuming we have a conventional airplane with a tail at the back of the airplane, not a weird canard or anything like that, which we'll talk about some other day.

[00:08:06] But when you pull the stick back, the elevator moves up and makes the airplane rotate, if you will, around the longitudinal axis, which causes the nose to come up and increases the angle of attack relative to the – I mean, we're getting deep in, but basically you pull back to go up. So that's accomplished on the right-hand stick with your elevator.

[00:08:33] Once the airplane is off the ground and flying, assuming you haven't pulled back too far and stalled it or tried to lift it off the ground too early and stalled it or any of those nasty things. But if you use one of those trainers that we recommended, you're not going to have any of those issues. But anyway, once you have the airplane in the air, then you're going to control the rotation about the longitudinal axis.

[00:08:58] Excuse me, the longitudinal axis – I don't know why that's so hard for me to say. It's a long word. With the ailerons. So I think I may have got it backwards earlier. The lateral axis is controlled with your elevator and the longitudinal axis is controlled with your ailerons. And then your vertical axis, that's the yaw and that's rudder. Just to get that out of the way.

[00:09:23] But anyway, you'll roll your wings, right or left, depending on which direction, what kind of pattern you want to fly at your particular flying spot. And that basically is what will turn the airplane. And you can get really fancy if you want to, and you can coordinate that with a little bit of rudder in the same direction.

[00:09:41] Which I still don't actually understand coordinated turns. I know you've tried to explain it to me before. I'm kind of more of a bank and elevator for when I turn. So I don't know what to look for or what a nice turn looks like when you have the rudder input also. Because I know you showed me while flying what it looks like, but I still don't quite get it.

[00:10:03] Yeah, some planes are just better at turning than others. A lot of today's trainers are so stable and you don't need rudder at all for the turns because they have the dihedral that assists with all that. And, you just don't need it. But a coordinated turn is usually – so on an airplane, on a real airplane, on a full-size airplane, you have to coordinate your turns.

[00:10:31] Because if you get in a banking situation and the airplane is slipping, it's not using the lift in the most efficient manner. So without getting too into the weeds on that, you run the risk of stalling the banking, the low wingtip. And that's bad. It induces a spin. And if you do it low enough, you crash and die.

[00:10:57] At least that doesn’t happen on model airplanes.

[00:10:59] Right, right.

[00:11:00] The crash and die part.

[00:11:01] Yeah, you don't die. A little bit of your wallet might. But anyway.

[00:11:06] A little bit of your soul goes down with it, but not you. But not you, right.

[00:11:11] You live to build another one, right?

[00:11:13] And crash it again.

[00:11:14] And hopefully not crash it again. Hopefully you learned your lesson to coordinate your turn. But at any rate, on a model, it's not as big a deal because, generally speaking, we fly our models way above any airspeed that could potentially cause that sort of issue to happen. But you can see it at slower airspeed when the airplane is flying away from you. And maybe climbing a little bit and you roll into it, let's say a right-hand turn.

[00:11:41] If you drew a line, okay, that the path of the airplane is taking, and then on that line you project the image of the nose of the aircraft and the tail of the aircraft, they would not be on that line if you're not feeding in a little bit of rudder at the same time. So what you're trying to do is you're trying to make the turn as efficient as possible. And they're really pretty, too, when you do it right, especially on bigger airplanes.

[00:12:07] It sometimes shows up as it looks like it's dragging the tail through the turn. So the tail is kind of going through the turn at a lower, at a lower position than the nose. It almost appears like it's dragging. A coordinated turn will kind of bump that tail up and make the tail follow the nose through that turn. It's just more efficient, and it looks pretty, really. That's really all it amounts to.

[00:12:31] Well, that’s something I need to work on then.

[00:12:33] And it's so easy to do, especially if you've learned to fly on a three-channel setup, which I know there's lots and lots and lots of minuses that we've already covered. But one plus is that you've already learned sort of how to fly with the rudder. So then when you go to learn to fly with the ailerons, you kind of already have that mentality of feeding in rudder for the turn when you transition to ailerons.

[00:12:59] So you actually end up feeding both of them into the turn, which is not a bad thing in most cases.

[00:13:04] Yeah, but I didn't know when I was learning on a three-channel that I was using the rudder. I mean, I knew I was using the rudder, but I didn't know. that's not the thumb input I was using. I was using the right hand for the rudder. So that made it a little bit more difficult, like I said, to go to a four-channel.

[00:13:18] So, yeah, yeah. So anyway, that's basically how you fly. You pull back to go up and you keep the wings level with the, with the other input on the right stick, the left and right, which controls the ailerons. And throttle is controlled with the left stick and, the yaw or steering it on the ground really for beginners mostly is what that amounts to.

[00:13:39] That’s with the rudder on the left stick, left and right.

[00:13:43] So that's basically how you fly. You just go down the runway and pull back. And once the airplane is airborne, you try not to climb too steep and lose airspeed and, get a safe altitude. And usually what I – it's a lot easier to do it than to talk about it. But usually what I do when I'm teaching is we'll start with the basic stuff. We'll get to a comfortable, three mistakes, high altitude.

[00:14:13] And that'll become obvious what that means after your first couple of flights. Yep. And you do basically – we just do basically big loops around the field. we'll do right-hand turns and then we'll do left-hand turns. And then as the skills progress, we do figure eights, which combines a left and a right turn in one lap. And then, we'll work on that for a few flights on the buddy box. I'll handle the landings.

[00:14:41] And then once the student is shown proficiency in turning the airplane left and right, especially when it's coming at him or her, then we'll start working on approaches for landing. Because if you think about it, an approach for landing should always – not should always, I shouldn't say that. But ideally, your approach will be flying at you. you'll be looking at the nose of the aircraft as opposed to the tail.

[00:15:07] Because if you land away from you, you lose a lot of that depth perception as the airplane gets farther and farther away. And hopefully, if you've done the correct approach, you'll land the airplane somewhere close to where you're standing so that the distance from the airplane to the ground is easier to perceive than it is when the airplane is really, really far away from you.

[00:15:28] So once a student has demonstrated the understanding of the backward controls, when it’s coming at you, then we’ll work on landing approaches and execute their first landing.

[00:15:41] Yeah, and for landing, so it's going to be different based on the airplane you're flying to. Yes. some airplanes, you keep half to three-quarter throttle until you're almost touched down on the ground. Because if not, you'll stall.

[00:15:57] Like the big yak I have literally on the approach: instead of starting it when it’s facing you, you have to start it and go all the way down to quarter throttle, actually all the way down to idle when it’s flying away from you before you start your final turn to come in.

[00:16:12] Yeah, the downwind leg.

[00:16:13] Right. It has so much lift that it will not go down to the ground if you don't do that. And I found that out the hard way the first time I tried to land it because I'd come in, half throttle, something like that, and I was nowhere near getting it down to the ground and you could not make it land. So landing depends on the airplane you have.

[00:16:34] Most trainers, they glide really well and you're going to be at the lower end of the throttle when you're coming at you. And then as you get right above the ground, just cut it off and gently set it down. Right. Landings are fun. I kind of think that's my favorite part of flying. Takeoffs are easy, but landings are fun because you can tell a lot about a pilot by how they land. The nice and smooth landings and, no bounce, it's just gorgeous.

[00:17:01] And that’s what I like to watch.

[00:17:03] Yeah. I like to do, well, like the other night flying the old P-40 here. I like doing, I like doing the takeoff. I like doing the approach. I like trying to grease the landing in that it's, aside from learning a new maneuver, landings are a challenge. And if you, work on them and practice them and you can really make them pretty and the practice is a lot of fun. I agree.

[00:17:31] Yeah. And landings are mandatory. So, you're either going to do it well or you're going to do it not well. And I would prefer to do it well every time.

[00:17:41] Right.

[00:17:42] So what goes up must come down.

[00:17:45] That's exactly right. And hopefully, yeah, hopefully, yeah. So basically, Bardia, again, I apologize if I'm mispronouncing your name, but it's okay to be nervous. Like I still get nervous even after all these years, with certain airplanes.

[00:18:04] Yeah, you should be nervous. That's what keeps you on your toes. Yeah, yep.

[00:18:07] And that's what actually, yeah, exactly. It keeps you on your toes. It sharpens your skills. But don't be afraid. I mean, yes, you have a little bit of money invested in the airplane and time, if you've built one, even time if you've put an ARF together. But there's nothing to be really afraid of. I mean, yes, crashing sucks. Nobody likes it. But, at the end of the day, you've learned something from that particular instance.

[00:18:43] But with today's modern trainers and the airplanes that we suggested on that very, on that first episode or one of those first episodes, they are so, so easy to fly these days. It's just, I mean, it almost guarantees success right out of the box, at least on the ones that we've recommended. So, and there's other ones out there, too. So don't be, don't be afraid. It's okay to be nervous. But don't be afraid. I mean, get out there and do it.

[00:19:17] There’s so much, in my opinion, airplanes are so much more rewarding than drone flying. I mean, they really are.

[00:19:25] I agree. Yes, I've done both, and I agree wholeheartedly. So there was a question about flaps in there. The only thing I would say about flaps is stay away from them when you're beginning. I mean, you don't have to, but it's just another level of complexity that when you're learning to fly, you don't need. Yeah, they're not necessary. Right. They look cool, and they're fun to fly with. But until you're to that point, just, don't worry about it. You'll get there.

[00:19:53] But for the basics of the flight, I would not worry about them.

[00:19:56] Yep, I agree. Flaps on pretty much all trainers are kind of a neat little toy to play with once you have the basics down.

[00:20:07] Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Cool. Let's move on. Next one from Nathan Keenan. He says, guys, great show. Thank you for staying active and weathering the pandemic. I fly three or four times a week, weather permitting, of course. That's awesome. Yeah, I know, right? I heavily use the front yard for foamies and profile 3D stuff, and out back on some acreage for larger planes. I fly electric mostly, but have one gasoline plane and several nitro planes that I take out periodically as well.

[00:20:40] I have an idea for a subtopic, maybe not a whole show, converting nitro planes to electric. Though this is sacrilege to many, it's a very practical way to fly more often and for many people that cannot master the inherent idiosyncrasies of nitro. Tuning, greasy, loud, etc. Anyway, I just wanted to reach out and let I'm out here and loving your podcast. Your voices are complimentary. See if you can find the Telemasters in this Waldo-esque world of RC chaos.

[00:21:11] So he sent a picture of all his airplanes. It's impressive. Yeah, it is. He said, I know where everything is, I think. Take care, Nathan.

[00:21:21] So, Nathan, I tease converting nitro to electric because I'm such a nitro guy.

[00:21:28] Which, hold on, by the way, how many airplane engines are you up to, nitro engines that you bought in the last month? It doesn't matter. More than last time we talked, by the way. A lot more.

[00:21:40] It's a few more. So, anyway, I tease. But, no, I think that's really cool, actually. Converting a small nitro plane to electric is really neat. And it doesn't have to be small, by the way.

[00:21:55] True. Absolutely true. You can pretty much convert any size nitro plane you have into electric. That is one that we will not talk about now. All I can say is tune in next week because that is going to be part of the show that we have for next week. Right. Yep. I will also talk about the Cavalier that I've been working on. That is, that's a nitro kit or nitro. Well, yeah, it was a kit. It was a nitro kit.

[00:22:23] Yep.

[00:22:24] That I changed to be electric. So, it wasn't ever nitro to begin with. But I did repurpose it to be an electric airplane. So, we'll kind of cover picking engine sizes and all that stuff next week. Yeah. And go over the conversion process along with some other topics.

[00:22:40] Are they called engines or are they called motors?

[00:22:42] I don't know. I guess I technically can go both ways. But you're probably right. They're motors, not an engine. I'd have to look it up to find the actual definition to see what's correct. But thanks for calling me out on that. I appreciate it.

[00:22:58] Sorry. Well, no, I mean, I'm guilty of calling them engines too. So, I mean, especially when they're like really big. Those really big electric ones that can replace like a 60 size nitro. I mean, that's, I guess technically it's a motor. But to me, that's an engine. it's replacing an engine.

[00:23:17] So, by the way, according to, I just did a Google thing. According to online, which we all know online is correct. Engine definition. A machine with moving parts that converts power into motion.

[00:23:29] Well, there you go.

[00:23:30] That's an engine. So, by that definition, yes, it's an engine.

[00:23:33] See? Internet to the rescue. So, yeah, we're going to, we'll talk about the electric motors on the next episode, which I've been, admittedly, I've been dreading. We've been putting it off probably mostly because of me, everybody. But, yeah, we're going to cover that on the next episode and doing a lot of research. So, hopefully, we get it right. But I do want to say that, Nathan, the picture that you sent us, hats off. That's a great, great collection.

[00:24:05] There's some really, really good airplanes in there. And I think I found at least one Telemaster. And I think I may have found the other one, too. How about you, Ron? Did you find them?

[00:24:16] Yeah, so I have to admit, I hate word finds. I hate the Waldo things because I can stare at things. And ask my wife. I literally will, like, go to the pantry and ask where the flower is because I can't find it. And it will be right in front of my face. So, I looked at that picture for I don't know how long. A long time. And I could not find it. I thought I saw a wing. But I wasn't sure if that's what it went to or not.

[00:24:42] But, and then sure enough, you and I sit down and we talk about it before we got on here. And you're like, oh, there it is. I was like, oh, my frigging God. I seriously looked at that for I don't know how long. And boom. Yes. There it was.

[00:24:54] So, where's Waldo?

[00:24:55] All that stuff is, no, I cannot take that stuff. So, next time if you're going to send us something, circle it for me. It'll be so much easier. Right.

[00:25:06] So, thanks, Nathan. I appreciate the photo. That was really cool. I love seeing pictures of your guys' workshop slash airplane storage solution because I'm always looking for, ideas on how to, organize my space and store the airplanes. So, I appreciate those photos. So, thanks, Nathan. And we'll hopefully answer the electric conversion question on the next episode.

[00:25:33] Yep. I think we should get that covered. Cool. All right.

[00:25:37] So, next, we've received an unsigned email that we wanted to touch on. Apparently, he used his phone and didn't sign his name, but hopefully he'll recognize. It says, hey, guys, love your show. It's very informative, and I'm learning a lot. Excellent. I just started getting back into flying RC airplanes. I had a couple as a kid, but mostly just crashed them and glued them back together until they were so heavy they wouldn't fly anymore.

[00:26:01] So, I've been there, done that, like most beginners. But now that I'm an adult, I can afford to crash way more planes. Okay, only kidding. But I would like to do it right this time. I have a FlySky FSI-6 remote and a ZOHD Dart 250. I have to admit, I'm not familiar with either of those. Just saying, but we'll get to that in a minute. With the CoPilot Lite system.

[00:26:29] I have flown it a few times and, of course, made the mistake of going into manual mode 10 feet off the ground and crashing it immediately, breaking it in half. That's not good. I have glued it back together and have made a successful flight going home without even crashing. Excellent. Still have some tweaking to do, and I'm not sure what the issue is, but it does not fly stable while it's in return to home mode, circling above me on its own. But it is a ton of fun to fly.

[00:26:55] Anyway, all that being said, my main reason for contacting you is a question I have about building my next plane. Well, we're the guys to talk to, right?

[00:27:03] Hopefully. Well, we do like to build planes. That is true.

[00:27:08] I have bought all the components in the Flight Test Mini Mustang Cardboard Kit, and I'm looking forward to building that. Here is my question. Can I fiberglass the entire plane? Or, rather, when I fiberglass the entire plane, will it be too heavy to fly? How do I figure out what battery I would need and what prop size I would need? I want to put a 2205 to 2300 kV motor on it because that's what I have.

[00:27:34] Also, I could use an in-depth lesson on how to decide what battery is right for what application. I also could use that lesson. I know that was a lot to cover, and I appreciate you considering any of these things. You were probably thinking that's way too advanced of an aircraft for somebody who hasn't flown in a long time and doesn't really know anything about RC airplanes. No, I don't think that at all. I would agree.

[00:27:57] I know it's going to be fast and very maneuverable and maybe even more so covered in fiberglass, so I'll probably crash it. I hope not, but I'm going to do my best not to crash it. And the last thing, I want to try to put the co-pilot system in the Mustang as well and would love to hear your thoughts on that. So, yes.

[00:28:16] Well, hold on. First off, I want to correct you on just one thing. When you were talking about the motor size, you said, I want to put a 2205 to 2300 kV motor in it. That's not how that is. So, the 2205 is the size of the motor, and the 2300 kV is the – well, we'll get into that next week, but the 2300 kV is the RPMs per volt. So, the 2205 denotes motor size. Oh, perfect. There we go. Okay. See?

[00:28:49] It shows you what an idiot I am when it comes to electric motors.

[00:28:53] That's a small motor that spins fast. Let's put it that way. Okay.

[00:28:58] All right. So, yeah, that was a lot to cover.

[00:29:01] Yeah. Everything that he asked when it comes to battery, propeller, all that kind of stuff, that will be covered next week also. Excellent. See, this is kind of why we need to get into the motor episode and kind of what pushed us forward on this. We've had so many questions about electric motors. Yeah. It's time to bite the bullet, and you're right. We've been putting it off, so we will get to that.

[00:29:23] It's my fault. I take the blame. I mean, you see, I didn't even know what those numbers mean. So, hopefully, I will learn along with some of our listeners on the next one. But some of the stuff I can talk about, for instance, he asks, can he fiberglass the entire plane? Yeah, yeah, you can fiberglass. I mean, you can fiberglass almost anything, really. You can fiberglass foam airplanes. I've seen guys fiberglass the cardboard airplanes.

[00:29:53] I've seen some guys actually do some fiberglass work on the cardboard. The problem is, as you sort of alluded to in the message to us, was that it does add weight. And how much weight is going to depend on your skill with fiberglass, honestly. I'm not really going to get into how to fiberglass an airplane on this episode. Maybe that's something we can cover some other time.

[00:30:18] Yeah, I actually wouldn't mind doing that because I do not know. I hear people talk about it all the time. Like, I'm going to fiberglass the airplane. Or, you did it, too, on the Horton when you're talking about that one. I'm not familiar with how to do that. I've never seen it done. So, that would be something I think that I would like to learn how to do, too.

[00:30:35] Yeah, yeah. And, like I said, depending on your skills, that's, it's going to depend on how much weight it gains by doing so. So, the real question, to me, anyway, on this particular message is why would you want to fiberglass it? what I'm saying? Like, is it you just want to make it look smoother? Or, I mean, because there's other ways to accomplish aerodynamic smoothing, for lack of a better term, than fiberglass and epoxy or polyester resin.

[00:31:08] So, if it's smoothing that you're after, I mean, you could do that with lightweight fillers. there's a product called Balsa Light from, I think it's Advanced Materials or something like that. That's basically just a, basically, I think it's just ground-up balsa dust with kind of an adhesive component that you spread on there, kind of like a spackle. And then you can sand it down and make shapes out of it and stuff like that.

[00:31:33] So, there’s lots of different ways to accommodate or to accomplish smoothing, if that’s, in fact, what you’re after.

[00:31:40] So, is that something you can use on cardboard?

[00:31:43] Yeah, I mean the stuff that I use will stick to. I mean it sticks to balsa, it sticks to plywood, it sticks to foam. I don’t see any reason why it wouldn’t stick to paper, because it sticks like glue to my little cardboard spreader thing that I use.

[00:32:00] Well, the only concern I would have would, be, like the liquid in it causing the cardboard to swell a little bit and lose its shape and lose its strength.

[00:32:08] Yeah. And you would have the same issue with fiberglassing with epoxy or polyester resin. And polyester resin is not a very friendly matrix because that's what it is. It's an adhesive matrix that bonds to the fiberglass fibers. That's not a very nice, has a solvent in it that, I can imagine if you fiberglassed foam with polyester resin, it would probably not end too well.

[00:32:33] Your foam would look probably like a ball of molten, ice cream half melted when you were done. And so, so the short answer is yes, you can, you can fiberglass the entire plane in this situation. But my concern would be, number one, why would you want to? Because the plane's designed to look the way it looks.

[00:32:56] And yeah, and number two, as he alluded to, it would become probably heavy to the point, would be difficult to fly, if not impossible to fly, with that motor combination maybe, and battery that he’s planning on using.

[00:33:11] Well, and would, so by fiberglassing it too, though, would that make it like more impervious to moisture? Like if you wanted to fly outside, like with dew on the grass or something like that, would it make it work a little bit better in that regard?

[00:33:26] It would. Yep. Yep. Because the epoxy in this case is what you would want to use. Or some of these other water-based materials like polycrylic has been used with more and more success with fiberglass lately in the last few years. Anyway, but, again, paper-backed foam or cardboard in this case, may not, get along with those types of, those types of adhesives.

[00:33:53] But once cured, yeah, absolutely would offer some sort of moisture protection for the airframe.

[00:34:01] And so, like, what kind of strength would you be adding to it with a layer? And I don't even know how thick your fiberglass would be. Do like, how thick of a layer would you put on it?

[00:34:12] Well, I mean, so there's so many different types of fiberglass and techniques for applying it. But usually for, if we're just trying to create a smooth surface to put a really nice finish on to basically seal the wood and provide a little bit of strength and dent resistance, we use something like three-quarter ounce cloth, which is, that's what it weighs. It weighs, the cloth weighs three-quarters of an ounce per square, I think it's, I want to say square yard.

[00:34:43] I'd have to look it up to be sure. But that's pretty lightweight stuff, and when you get that on there with a layer of adhesive, I mean, we're talking less than, less than a thirty-second of an inch. I mean, we're, we're talking measuring in the thousandths of an inch. It's really, really thin. So it doesn't, it doesn't add a lot of thickness until you start to get into the, into the thicker, types of cloth.

[00:35:06] So the cloth that you use is going to depend, or the cloth that you use will dictate how thick the layer actually ends up being when it’s finally cured.

[00:35:18] And so do you just do like normally. Is it a single layer then that you’ll put on, or do you do multiple layers, or does it depend?

[00:35:26] In most instances, it depends, but in most instances, when, when, like, for instance, on the Horton wing, I'm just going to use a single layer of three-quarter ounce cloth, because the wing is plenty strong by itself. I don't need to add, really, any strength.

[00:35:38] I’m just looking to add a little bit of dent resistance to the, to the very thin balsa sheeting, and also to provide a smooth surface for me to apply the final finish, because I’m not going to cover this airplane with monocoat, I’m going to paint it. So painting bare wood. Usually, unless you seal the wood over and over and over with some sort of a sealant, you’re going to see wood grain.

[00:36:03] And even though the Horton was made of wood, it was, it was smooth. It didn't look like it was made of wood.

[00:36:10] The real one was made of wood?

[00:36:12] Absolutely.

[00:36:13] Oh, I did not know that.

[00:36:14] Yeah, it was made of wood over, over a steel tubular frame. Yeah.

[00:36:19] Oh, that’s interesting.

[00:36:21] Mm-hmm. It's, it's actually a very interesting airplane. If you got some time to kill and you want to do a quick Google search, there's, there's actually a fair amount of, information out there on it.

[00:36:32] And how much closer are you to being, finished with that one?

[00:36:35] I am absolutely zero percent closer than I was the last time we talked about it.

[00:36:41] Okay, moving on. You're, you're spending all your time buying motors.

[00:36:47] And running them. That is true.

[00:36:50] Yep.

[00:36:50] But, but, but anyway, yeah, we'll, we'll, we'll answer his, his questions on the, on the motor and the battery and all that kind of stuff on the next episode. And unfortunately, I don't have a lot of knowledge on his, co-pilot spelled with a K, system from, from, this, ZO HD Dart 250.

[00:37:09] But that sounds like a really interesting, experiment, if you will, to take, to take like a, a safe system or an AS3X system out of one airplane and putting it into another. I don't see why it wouldn't work because, they sell AS3X receivers, bare, separately. So you can put them in other airplanes. If it's, if it's the same type of technology. Yeah. I don't see why you wouldn't be able to, to do that. Okay.

[00:37:38] So I was not familiar with that either. And I did a quick search on it before we got on here. okay. So it sounds like a cool little system actually. okay. So it's a, a GPS enabled, autopilot for your airplane. you can hand launch and it will take care of the launch for you. you can throw it and then, then as soon as it's out of your hand, it will turn the throttle all the way on and kind of do a, slow climb for you.

[00:38:06] Okay.

[00:38:07] It will also, like, you can, you can turn like a return to land kind of thing and it will fly and it's supposed to be able to land itself. it also has the stabilization built into it. So that's another mode that you can do on them. And then you can turn it completely off and fly it by yourself.

[00:38:25] So I'm assuming then that it uses the GPS signal to determine how fast it's going. So it knows when to flare and, all that sort of stuff with the landing.

[00:38:34] Yeah. So like most of the time, yeah. So like most of the time with the quadcopters and stuff, like with the one I, I have, I know we're not supposed to talk about them. So everybody, I'm sorry, but just to get some background. it's your podcast. Okay. But still, I don't want to, we said no drones, but this is just going to be a quick thing. So you set it down, you turn it on, then it gets a GPS lock and it knows height.

[00:38:58] It knows, where it is in three-dimensional space. So when it takes off and does its thing and then comes back down to land, it will move over the spot where it's supposed to be and then slowly set itself down on the ground. So how that would work with an airplane, I'm not quite sure because an airplane obviously always has to have forward momentum.

[00:39:23] So it's going to have to do an approach to where it has plenty of room, to where it can make its, its shallow approach to land on the ground. The other thing that I'm, I'm not quite sure on how that would work is how it knows what way to take off and what way to land. Because, you always want to take off, and land with the wind in front of you. So that I, I'm not sure how that would work at all either.

[00:39:51] I, like I said, I haven't looked into it too much, but it does sound like a cool piece of equipment. Here's my caveat. So it's a cool piece of equipment if how to fly and you use it as a toy where, and I think we've, we've mentioned it before. We don't necessarily recommend using that kind of stabilization, that kind of technology to teach yourself to fly.

[00:40:16] And the reason for that is because you need to learn how to do everything on your own before you move on to something like that for fun. I don't know how to word it without sounding preachy because that's, that's not my point, but it's cool that you can do all this kind of stuff, but get the basics down first. you don't want to crash a plane like, like he said that he crashed at 10 foot off the ground because he accidentally put it into manual mode. Okay.

[00:40:42] That, that sucks. You crashed because of that. But, but if you knew how to land and stuff beforehand, you should have been able to take care of that. Am I saying it okay? I mean.

[00:40:54] No, I think, I think, I think you're, you're on. I mean, because, I mean, we do, we do recommend that you learn to fly on a four channel, airplane and, learn the basics and stuff like that. But, we've, we've, we've said it before, AS3X and the, let's see, safe and some of these other technologies, they're crushes. So I have a little, a little bit different opinion than yours.

[00:41:21] If you’re learning to fly and there’s not a club available and there’s nobody there to assist you, then yeah, yeah, you can. You can learn to fly with one of these things and follow the path right. You, you start with the safe mode and full safe or whatever, and you gradually work it down to where you’re flying completely manual.

[00:41:41] And then once you've done that, then, you're, you're pretty much ready, for the next step or whatever. But, so I, I wouldn't say that, I wouldn't say that, that you shouldn't use them, as a learning tool, because I think you can, especially in the absence of a club field with a, with a instructor,?

[00:42:00] But yeah, if, if you have access to a club field and an instructor and, and you really want to get in the hobby and stay in it and make it a, make it a, a lifelong hobby, then yeah. Yeah. Get a full four channel airplane with none of that safe stuff and, get ahold of an instructor and, and learn to fly, not, not learn to play with a toy.

[00:42:22] Well, and you really, I know you, you push the instructor thing, but I, I learned without an instructor. It was just a simple, slow flying airplane that kind of teaches you the basics of it. Right. So, and I, I, I have to admit, I'm not familiar with the flight test stuff. I mean, I've seen, I, I know of the guys, I've seen some of their videos and stuff. I've really never followed them, just because they kind of do different things than what I'm into.

[00:42:51] So, yeah, me too. What, what, what they, what they have done that I have seen has been pretty cool, but it's not something that, that I kind of follow. So the mini Mustang, I couldn't even tell you like how big of an airplane he's talking about. I'm guessing it's going to be pretty small if it's a 2205, 2300 KV motor. so it's probably going to be something small, spinning a pretty, pretty small prop, but it's going to be spinning the prop fast.

[00:43:24] So I'm guessing maybe something in the 24 inch, maybe 26 inch wingspan. But like I said, I'm, I'm not familiar with them at all. So, yeah. So for that, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not sure.

[00:43:38] I watch, I watch some of their, some of their stuff on YouTube just because of the, the wow factor. Like, well, I'm not going to get into the specifics, but, yeah, I don't, I'm not, like you said, that, that's sort of, that sort of, flying is not, is not really what makes me tick.

[00:43:55] I like, the Balsa airplanes or whatever, but, but yeah, I, I think that, getting back to his question here, he wants to put this co-pilot thing in the Mustang. my, my biggest, my biggest concern with that is, a Mustang, even if it's a foamy in this case, if, if it's a, designed like a Mustang, it's going to be faster than, this other trainer, this, ZO HD Dart 250.

[00:44:28] Actually, the, I, I don't know that one either, but a Dart 250 sounds kind of fast to me too, so, I, I don't know.

[00:44:37] That's true. it's a different airplane, right? So these are two different airplanes with two different flying characteristics, more than likely. one of them is probably going to fly faster and do a lot of the other things that airplanes do at a faster speed than the other one. so is this co-pilot light system, capable of knowing when this Mustang, what it's, what, what airspeed it stalls at?

[00:45:02] Is it, is it's automatic launch feature or whatever that is? It, does it compensate for aircraft type? Well, no, obviously I'm sure it doesn't. So, that would be my only concern. I mean, I would hate to, to try something in a new airplane that's designed for something that flies slow. You put it in something that flies fast and it tries to do everything that it does in a slow airplane on a fast airplane. You're asking for trouble.

[00:45:28] Yeah. I never even thought of that. That's a good point. you might stall it, not knowing that it was at slow speed.

[00:45:34] Right. Exactly. So, especially on landing, right? it flies an approach automatically on this return to home feature. Or, what if it, yeah, what if it gets too slow while it's, while it's on its approach over somebody's car and stalls and spins and hits somebody's car and puts a big dent in the hood and here you are and now you gotta, what I'm saying?

[00:45:55] No, I get it. So. Yeah.

[00:45:57] So that’s, that’s my biggest concern.

[00:45:59] Yep.

[00:45:59] But it sounds like an interesting project if you’ve got room and time and, space.

[00:46:06] Yeah. So the, the last thing I'll say about that one is, is send us pictures. we, we do like the pictures. So let us know. Send us video. Video is even better. There you go. Send us video of the first flight and then, and the Dart 250, let us know what that looks like too. We, we, we would, we'd appreciate that. So, and maybe those are cool planes that we need to get into and start flying. I don't know.

[00:46:27] You never know.

[00:46:28] Nope. You never know what the next cool plane is going to be that you just have to have.

[00:46:32] Yep.

[00:46:34] So, last thing I want to touch on. We, we ended up going out to the field last weekend and, and you got some flights and I didn't, it was a last minute call again for, from me to you or from you to me, I guess.

[00:46:48] Yeah. That was my fault. I, and it's so chaotic, at least for me right now with a here around the weekends, cause I'm, I'm working and I'm only getting, the one day off a week. And then with the, the, the holiday weekend, we got an extra day and it was like, Oh, I got an extra day. I can do all this stuff. And then it was like, Oh gosh, I have this time. I can go fly. I, I better tell Ron.

[00:47:10] I mean by that time I’m already loaded up and on my way to the field. So that’s. I apologize, I didn’t. I didn’t give you a lot of notice.

[00:47:16] Yeah. I get a text, Sam, go into the field. Do you want to come? And I text back, when are you leaving? I'm in the car now. Oh, okay. Yeah.

[00:47:24] Hey, just for what it's worth, I'm, I'm planning on flying this weekend. Some, if the weather's decent. So just so Saturday or Sunday, well, it'll more than likely be Sunday. Cause that's my day off.

[00:47:35] Oh yeah. You're off Sunday. Yeah. That works out good for me. Not like I'm doing anything Saturday either. I was just curious.

[00:47:42] Fair enough. So yeah, that's the, we did, we did make it out to the, to the field last weekend. And I, I flew the, the, the P40, which was good to get some, get some stick time with that one. That's a really, I like that airplane a lot actually.

[00:47:59] Yeah. I was a little bit surprised because you were very nervous to fly that. Like when you landed, your, your hands were like almost shaking and you just had to put it down and walk away for a little bit.

[00:48:09] Yeah. And like I said, I mean, we said it earlier in the show here that, I still get, I still get nervous. I still get the shakes occasionally. And I had been, had been, had been a minute since I had flown this airplane. So, but it flies so good that, the flights after that, it was, it was all good.

[00:48:28] But yeah, that first, first flight of the day on an airplane I haven’t flown for a while.

[00:48:33] Yeah. I still get nervous.

[00:48:35] Which surprises me. I mean, you’ve been flying for like 93 years and it’s, it’s, and it still hits you.

[00:48:45] Yeah. I still get nervous.

[00:48:47] Still get, I still put a lot of pressure on myself to not crash.

[00:48:50] And I think that's what the, where the nerves come from, because like, like I said earlier, I mean, there's nothing to be afraid of. I'm not going to, I'm not going to kill anyone with this thing crashes and I'm not going to be out, no one's going to come and take my house because I crashed an airplane or anything like that. But yeah, yeah, I still, I still get nervous cause I don't want to, I don't want to crash them.

[00:49:12] But it was, so it was interesting though, because when, when I got there, you were, you were fiddling around with it and you were having some problems with, with an engine servo, yeah. So the throttle servo, the throttle servo. Yeah. So the, the, the way you handled it was a little bit different than I would have handled it. and I guess I can, I can still learn a little bit from you on, on, in that regard.

[00:49:35] Personally with what happened. I would have packed it up and brought it home and gone over the whole thing. But what so? What did you end up figuring out with it, and how did you get it fixed and comfortable enough to fly it without fearing that you were going to have an issue in the air?

[00:49:52] Right. So first and foremost, a proper pre-flight. Yeah. no, anyway, so yeah, I didn't, I didn't test anything, at the house here before I left. we, we, we've talked about, how to put your airplanes away for the season and how to get them back out for the season. which I normally, I'm pretty good about doing, but, I've never had any problem with this airplane.

[00:50:18] So, I just packed it up, charged the battery, packed it up and took it to the field. when I got to the field, put the wing on and I gotta tell you, I hate trying to take a high tech connector and plug it into a spectrum receiver. Can I get an amen from anyone out there that's had that issue? Anyway, I understand. So I'm, I'm having, I'm going to, I'm going to fix that.

[00:50:41] I’m going to put some short extensions in there so that I can do it a little bit easier. Anyway, yeah, once I got everything plugged in and got the wing on it, turned everything on, put the gear down, put it on its gear and so I can fuel it up, and stuff actually had fuel in it. I mean, I put fuel in it, it was ready to ready to fire it up and start warming it up and do my pre-flight.

[00:51:05] I noticed that, went through all the controls and the throttle wasn't moving. so I'm like, okay, well, that's weird. So I'm, off comes the wing so I can get to the servo. And of course I turn everything off and turn it back on, to sort of re-initialize my spec, my old spectrum DS8, DX8, excuse me. and that didn't work.

[00:51:25] So off comes the wing and, I figured, occasionally, these old analog servos, which is, I, I have mostly analog servos. I, I have a few digital servos. but the old analog servos, they, they rely on a, on a standard electric motor in there to turn the gears. And, a regular old electric motor has brushes that ride on an armature and this, that, and the other thing.

[00:51:50] And occasionally, maybe a little bit of corrosion gets on the brushes and you don't get a good contact and they take a little, kickstart, if you will, to get them, to get them going again. So I did the, I took the wing off and I, I, shut everything off and I moved the servo by hand, back and forth gently, a few times, turned everything back on and still nothing. so it's like, well, that's, that's strange.

[00:52:16] So then I resort to fix number two, which is my go-to. I rebind everything and I don’t know why that works. I, I can’t. I don’t know the science behind it. I don’t understand why you would have to ever rebind it because theoretically the DSM stuff once it’s bound, it’s should be bound forever. It should, every time you turn the transmitter on. It should remember that. That connection, if you will, to that receiver on that.

[00:52:46] Yeah. Especially when it's working for all the other servos.

[00:52:49] Yeah. Yeah. It's weird. So, so I did that. I rebound everything, plugged it all back in and lo and behold it, I had throttle response again from that servo and everything else was working. So, put the wing back on, put the gear, the gear I guess was still down, fired it up and, did a pre-flight, checked all the controls. And then because of that issue, I, I checked them a second time.

[00:53:14] And then I put a, once it was warmed up, I think, I think I shut it off and checked the battery or maybe I checked the battery before I did all that. But anyway, did all those pre-flight checks and of course everything was fine and, and off I went. So, yeah, when, and that issue does pop up sometimes with, with, various, airplanes and that's, that's usually, usually the fix is to, to rebind it.

[00:53:40] Which is not it’s. It’s weird and it. It is a little concerning that, for whatever reason, since the last time I shut everything off it, it, it didn’t remember the one, the one channel. For whatever reason, that is a little concerning.

[00:53:56] Yeah.

[00:53:56] But after rebinding and verifying that everything is working exactly as it's supposed to, there's no reason for me not to, not to have faith in it at that point, because it's bound, everything is working. If it's working here, it's going to work in the air. So off I went.

[00:54:12] Yeah. See, that's, I guess maybe that's the, the stance I need to start taking, but to me, what caused that to stop happening or, what, what caused that channel to stop working and is that going to happen to me in the air? So I don't at that point have, have reason to be, or, have faith in that, that it's going to work from then on.

[00:54:34] And so that's, here's, here's the rationale I used, right? So it didn't stop working while it was on. It stopped working sometime between, the off period from the last time I turned it off to this time that I turned it on. So the failure, if you want to call it a failure, didn't happen when the radio was turned on, because obviously the last time I flew it, it worked, right? Otherwise the airplane would be in pieces.

[00:54:59] So, I feel that a failure in the off position or a, or a, a, a lost bind, if you will, in the off position is less worrisome than something that would happen while everything is on, like it's working when it's on. And then now all of a sudden it's not working and it's still on. Does that make sense?

[00:55:21] Well, I get it, but I guess really you don't know that for sure. So it could have worked when you first turned it on.

[00:55:26] You do know that for sure.

[00:55:28] How do that?

[00:55:29] Because, because the last time I flew it, it worked.

[00:55:31] Well, what I’m saying is, though: you don’t know necessarily if, when you turned it on, everything was working and then something happened before you did your check and that and the minute it was on, or something like that.

[00:55:42] So you mean in the 15 seconds from the time I turned it on to the time I moved that control surface. I don’t know if that might’ve been the failure point.

[00:55:50] Correct.

[00:55:50] That's what you're saying. Okay.

[00:55:51] Yeah.

[00:55:52] True. Yeah. I can't argue that.

[00:55:54] So, and so that's where, that's where I have, I have more, I guess a more of a cautious approach and I would probably have just taken it home and done more testing before I just flew it. If it was a plane I cared about that much.

[00:56:06] So what, what testing would you have done at home that, that I didn’t do there at the field?

[00:56:12] I probably would have ran it quite a bit at home and engine on, engine off, just done a whole bunch of tests on it to see if it was something that was going to happen, because, like to me and I, I don’t know enough about how those actually work and where that would have or where it would have the problem. So I would want to know that for several minutes, for several, for quite a while, that is going to keep a bind and keep working.

[00:56:36] So I would probably would have brought it home, ran it around on the ground a little bit, ran it on its own outside tethered down, brought it inside without the engine running and just ran through stuff, or even just let it sit for a while and then go back to it and make sure it was working.

[00:56:51] And that’s saying something because it’s not a short drive for you out to the field.

[00:56:55] Well, there’ve been. There’ve been plenty of times I’ve taken airplanes out there and then just taken them apart and not flown them because something- even though it checked out right at home and stuff- it wasn’t right there.

[00:57:06] But that, once again, I think that's because I was kind of, we've had issues with electronics before and if there's any kind of, if there's any kind of a sign that something is not right, I want to kind of check that over to make sure it's not going to be something I'm going to regret later. But that's just me. it was completely successful. You flew it. It flew great. You had fun with it. And that was the point of it.

[00:57:34] So obviously what you did was correct.

[00:57:36] Flew it three times.

[00:57:37] You didn’t have a problem.

[00:57:39] Nope. So I guess, I guess, I guess in the end it's, it's a leap of faith, I guess. All right. So yeah, that, that's what happened at the field. And, it was a, it was an odd occurrence, but it, it, it's happened, before. And then that was always the, that was always the fix. And, so I felt confident that, that that would be the fix this time. And it was, so yeah, it was good to be out to fly though. Felt good to fly again.

[00:58:08] I agree.

[00:58:09] It had been a while. January 1st, I think. Right.

[00:58:13] Since out there, yes. Yeah. So that's quite a while.

[00:58:20] Yeah.

[00:58:21] Way too long. one, one thing, one last thing I wanted to say. So we're going to be doing an episode here coming up in the next little while on tools. what kind of tools we need to, to build planes, what kind of tools you need to fly planes to take care of planes, reach out and let us know what your favorite tool is. So I want to make sure we get everything covered. And I know we're not going to be able to get every single tool we use in one episode.

[00:58:50] But I’m curious.

[00:58:52] Yeah, that would make for a long episode. It would. Because I have a lot of favorite tools.

[00:58:56] But I, yeah, exactly. So I know you have your, your set of tools that you, you kind of go to that you enjoy using. I have mine, but I'm just kind of curious other people, what kind of tools they like, what they use, what their go-to tool is for, for certain things. But, what, what do you use and what do you enjoy using? So just reach out, send us an email and let me know.

[00:59:17] And we will, like I said, in the next, next few weeks, we’ll be covering tools.

[00:59:23] Yep. Speaking of tools, I was using my tools, on my, on my various engines that I, that I have. And, as we've talked about, I, we're, I'm getting ready to, start building a dualist here very, very soon. Hopefully very soon.

[00:59:39] I don’t know about that. I mean, if you ever get your balsa.

[00:59:42] I'll, I'll get it eventually. at any rate, I was, I was tinkering with the, the engines that I'm planning on using that. And I'm not sure if I mentioned it or not, but they're going to be, a pair of old Irvine forties.

[00:59:55] Yeah.

[00:59:56] So, tinkering with them, and I ran them on the stand and they ran. They ran fine, but they’re, they’re older, they’ve got a lot of a lot of hours on them. So I thought, well, maybe I should, I should freshen them up a bit.

[01:00:13] And, and by freshen them up, I mean, if the bearings feel gritty, I'll go ahead and replace the bearings, which unfortunately for the Irvines, or at least these particular Irvines, they have a really unusual size, rear bearing that, it's not easy to source. But anyway, that's not the point of this. I wanted to get a set of rings for the pistons.

[01:00:33] And, as, as some of our listeners may, may know, there's a name out there that is associated with, piston rings. Frank Baumann, been to making rings forever. Right. and usually it's, it's a performance upgrade.

[01:00:49] Guys would, would buy new engines and put one of his, his, steel rings in them and it would actually perform better because it would make a better seal because it's machined to, better tolerances and this, that, and the other thing. Anyway, Frank Baumann, quit, making rings here. I think it was, 2017.

[01:01:07] Hopefully somebody will correct me if that's incorrect, but, the guy that, he trained to take over the business, Bjorn Ball, sent me a pair of rings. Thank you very much, Bjorn. the company's name is RMG Machine Works, RMJ, excuse me, Machine Works. and that's short for Ringmaster Junior because, Frank Baumann was the ringmaster and he taught Bjorn and Ringmaster Junior.

[01:01:33] Oh, that’s awesome.

[01:01:35] Yeah. So, as luck would have it, I, I didn't do my research and I ordered the wrong rings. So they, they came in and, and I tried fitting them in the piston and I'm like, ah, crap, these don't, these are the wrong rings. I got the wrong rings. So I called the, and talked to Bjorn himself at the company. And while we were talking, I was saying, Hey, look, I got these rings and they don't fit. And, and he's like, yep, you ordered the wrong rings.

[01:02:01] And sure enough, I did. It was totally, totally my fault. but anyway, he said, your voice sounds kind of familiar. are you on a podcast? I'm like, well, as a matter of fact, I am. So Bjorn, if you're listening, to this one, thank you very much. he offered to send me, another pair of rings, at no cost, which was amazing.

[01:02:22] That is very nice.

[01:02:24] Yeah. And the fact that you can call the company and talk to the actual owner, the guy that's actually going to make your rings for you is really, really, really cool. so yeah, I'm, I'm anxiously awaiting the, the replacement rings that I, ordered incorrect or to replace the rings I ordered incorrectly, to put in here. And I, and I expect these engines to, to, to wake up and I'm, I'm really excited.

[01:02:47] And I just wanted to thank him for, for his really great service. And, he had me measure the, the bore of the, of the sleeve to make sure I got the right rings this time and, class act. so if you need piston rings for your old engines, he can hook you up and they're really, really cheap too. I mean, a pair, a pair of these things was less than 40 bucks, which is quite amazing because I think the factory rings would have been twice that.

[01:03:13] Wow. That is pretty good. And that's amazing. He offered to send those to you when the original order, mess up was your fault.

[01:03:19] It was my fault. Yeah.

[01:03:21] That's a, that's good customer service. So that's awesome.

[01:03:23] It's excellent. Yeah. Excellent customer service. So I just wanted to shout out to Bjorn there to RMJ. thank you. Thank you so much for, for, working with me on that. And I can't wait to get those in the, in those engines and run them again.

[01:03:36] Ringmaster junior. That's awesome.

[01:03:38] RMJ. That’s right.

[01:03:42] So cool. Did you, I know you, you were looking online at getting another engine, but it ended up not making it to you, you were outbid. Did you order your, did you order your other one or not?

[01:03:58] No, no.

[01:03:59] So, okay. I guess that you want me to talk about it.

[01:04:04] That’s why I brought it up and didn’t say specifics.

[01:04:06] Right. So, Clarence Lee, I think we may have mentioned that. I may have mentioned the name in, in, in the engine episode.

[01:04:15] Yes, you did.

[01:04:16] But, and then I think in the next one also, well, I, I hold him in high regard. which is why I'm pushing you. I know, when, when it comes to model, model engines, Clarence Lee is, in, in my mind, a legend. I mean, I've never met him. Okay. I've seen his engines running and they are amazing. but, but yeah, I, somebody had one for sale on eBay.

[01:04:45] It was a Clarence Lee 61, which is a, a Clarence Lee modified KNB, 61, that I was bidding on and hoping to win. And of course I got outbid because I'm, cheap. but, but believe it or not, Clarence Lee is, at least as of right now is, is still in business at the, at the very young age of, I believe it was 93. Was that the age you looked up?

[01:05:10] I think that’s what it was.

[01:05:12] Yeah. So still doing engines, still building engines, and, and Ron here is pushing me to order one, before I can't order one anymore. If, if what I'm saying.

[01:05:24] Yeah.

[01:05:24] And I keep, I keep sitting on the fence. It's, it's, it's a lot of money for one engine. I mean, now this coming from the guy that has bought a lot of engines recently, but I buy them cheap. Okay. I don't, I don't spend a lot of money on them, but you will be able to get those

[01:05:38] Engines for a long time and this engine you will not.

[01:05:42] That's true. That's absolutely true. And this would, this would be an engine that I would buy and, and probably never run. I mean, it would probably sit in my box and it would be one of those, one of those things that I look at and just, just look at, because it's, it would be, it would have so much meaning, to me, to, to own one of these, from Clarence Lee. So, so Ron's pushing me and I'm, I keep, keep sitting on the fence.

[01:06:11] I think I, I think I’m sitting on the fence in the hopes that while I’m sitting on the fence, they become unavailable and therefore will make the decision for me. I think that’s what’s going on.

[01:06:22] I don't know how to take that. What do you mean? Did you just say you hoped that he would die?

[01:06:28] No, no, absolutely not. That is not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is I think in the back, in the back of my head, I think I'm, I'm trying to talk myself out of buying one and that's the rationale I'm using.

[01:06:41] So we just said you hoped that they would become unavailable. Well, the only way they become unavailable if the guy's dead or if he stops making them,

[01:06:50] Maybe he could, he could choose to stop making them just because he doesn't want to do it anymore. He doesn't have to die to stop making them.

[01:06:58] True.

[01:06:59] Well, so my, or maybe, or maybe KMB stops making engines and he can't get parts anymore to make them. Maybe that's what I'm in the back of my head. Maybe that's what's going on. I don't know. At some, on some level, whatever that is, I think I'm, I'm delaying so that if I delay long enough, they will be out of production and I won't be able to get one.

[01:07:22] But anyway, so yeah, I've been, I've been pushing Tom and, and to have him go ahead and order that engine. I don't want him to regret not doing it later.

[01:07:32] I appreciate that. And it's, and I'll just say one thing. It's very easy to spend someone else's money.

[01:07:41] Well, I'll just say another thing. Yes, it is. But I, I also know, like I said, there've been some things that I have wanted, that I've sat on the fence about and not bought and they're no longer available. And I, I don't, I have regrets in that. And just from hearing the way you talk about the guy, and how much you would appreciate a motor like that, really, it's not a lot of money for what you're talking about. You spend a lot more than that on other things.

[01:08:12] That’s true that you won’t even remember in two months.

[01:08:16] Yeah. I’m, I’m thinking about what I’ve spent lately. I’ll remember all this stuff in two months.

[01:08:21] Or in four months. But I know what you're saying. Yeah. I know what you're saying. And you're absolutely right. Oh, I know I'm right. That's why I keep bringing it up.

[01:08:30] -Huh.

[01:08:31] So at the beginning of next podcast, our, our next show, Tom is going to come in with the news that he has ordered the engine and, is anticipating it with bated breath at the, at the mailbox.

[01:08:45] Right? I'm going to neither confirm nor deny. No.

[01:08:49] I’ll try a few more times.

[01:08:50] Okay. Credit for trying.

[01:08:51] Yeah. So I think I'm done. Anything else you want to cover?

[01:08:55] Nope. That, I think I've, I think I've covered everything I wanted to cover and gave the shout outs I wanted to give.

[01:09:03] Okay. So thank you everybody for listening. Tune in next week for what's probably going to be a marathon episode talking about, electric engines or electric motors, whatever you want to call them and batteries and selection and all that fun stuff. So, until next time.

[01:09:21] I’m looking forward to learning. Yes.

[01:09:24] So am I. So until next time, I'm Ron.

[01:09:29] I'm Tom. Keep sending us pictures.

[01:09:33] Very true. Good night, everybody. Good night. Oh, and by the way, the reason we say good night, I noticed we do that all the time. And a lot of times, you're not listening at night, but it's 10 o'clock our time here now. So to us, it's time to go to bed.

[01:09:48] It's way past my bedtime. Yeah.

[01:09:49] So that's why we say good night. Perhaps we could say good day, but I think that kind of sounds abrupt. So, I'm going to keep saying, good night. So good night, everyone.

[01:09:59] All right. See you later. How about that?

[01:10:02] There you go. See you later. Good night.

[01:10:05] We hope you enjoyed this episode of the RC Plane Lab podcast. For topic suggestions, to ask questions, or to give any feedback, connect with us at rcplanelab.com or email us direct at either ron at rcplanelab.com or tom at rcplanelab.com. You can also text us or leave us a voicemail at 818-351-9846. Please subscribe, rate, and review us on your favorite podcast app. Until next time, may your landings be gentle.