In this episode
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The guys talk about the book “Stick and Rudder: An Explanation of the Art of Flying”, which is a book that Ron read when he was learning how to fly. They also discuss how to bend landing gear wire, and the new changes to the Fusion 360 software used for 3D Printing.
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Episode 37 Transcript
This transcript has been lightly edited for readability. Timestamps are retained.
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[0:00] Hello and welcome to RC Plane Lab, a podcast for anyone interested in RC airplanes. We'll share tips and tricks on how to build models and talk about successful flights, epic crashes, and everything in between. Visit us at rcplanelab.com to sign up for our email list and to ask us questions. You can also text us or leave us a voicemail at 818-351-9846. Please help us out by rating and reviewing us in your favorite podcast app. Thanks for spending time with us today.
[0:34] Now here are your hosts, Ron and Tom. Hello, everyone, and welcome to the RC Plane Lab podcast. I'm Ron. And I'm Tom. How are you doing? Good. How are you doing? Good. Did you have a productive weekend? I did not. I did, for a change. Really? What'd you do? I did lots of stuff to The Duelist. Awesome. Yep, yep. You want to hear about it? No, because we're going off topic on what I have written down. Okay. Well, by all means,
[0:59] let's talk about the release mistake. No, we can skip that one. No, I want to hear about that one. No, so I made a little mistake last week when I went to release the episode on Thursday night. Usually I will post the episode for a little behind-the-scenes look for everybody that cares. Yeah. After I edit them, I usually release them Thursday night. Like, I'll upload them and get them ready for release on Friday. I was off on my dates for some reason.
[1:28] And as soon as I clicked upload, and go to publish, it showed me that I published it Thursday night. Right. Because you can schedule them for release at a certain time. Anytime you want. Yeah. But you just had the date wrong. Months ahead. I had the date wrong. Instead of the next day's date, I was going for the same day's date which I didn't realize so I went ahead and did it and then it showed me that it was released and I was like oh hold on that should say future
[1:52] not released sure enough I went ahead and deleted it hurried up as quick as I could got it down went ahead and redid it with correct date which was still incorrect still incorrect and Iid it with the correct date, which was still incorrect. Still incorrect. And I published it a second time. Incorrectly. Incorrectly. And then I realized what I was doing, so I unpublished it and went ahead and republished it for the correct day.
[2:17] But we had several people sneak in there and get that downloaded in that amount of time. So unfortunately, well, I guess not unfortunately. there and get that downloaded in that amount of time. So unfortunately, well, I guess not unfortunately. Which I think that's awesome because it tells me that there are at least a few folks out there who are anxiously anticipating our releases and want to hear more from us.
[2:35] Yeah. Like the first time it took me a few minutes really to realize what was going on. But yeah, so good job. You snuck in on me and you got it. But you got it a day early. But anyway, so if you did, good job. Hope you enjoyed it a day early, a little extra for you. But that was my oopsie. From now on, I'll actually check the calendar and hopefully do it correctly. So you're not going to make that mistake this week, hopefully. I will not. We'll get that set up, maybe.
[3:04] in the bottom right corner of your laptop, there's a little clock down there. Usually, if you click on it, it'll tell you what the day is. Well, and actually, I'm looking at my laptop right now, and it says on there what the date is. I just was not paying attention. It's my fault. I mean, if you think you can do better, by all means. I'm not going to throw any stones, because that's not something I want to even try. Hey, listen, make no mistake.
[3:29] I know who the brains of this operation is, and it's not me. And there's only two of us. So, I mean, that just pretty much leaves you. Well, and I don't feel like that I'm the brain, so we're all up creek without a paddle. We're out of screwed. Hey, speaking of screwed, so we're eventually going to do the propeller episode, the air screw episode. So Ron and I have been diligently doing our homework and compiling our notes, and we're very close to recording.
[3:54] So hopefully you can expect that episode pretty soon. I would even venture to say next week. Sweet. I like it. Do you agree? I do. It's going to be a good one, I think. I do too. Lots of information, and there's some interesting stuff that I uncovered and learned, even, which, is a good thing. A lot of stuff that I didn't know or I knew and forgot. I mean, there's just a lot to it.
[4:16] You'd be surprised how much there is with a little spinny thing at the front of an airplane that you can figure out. Right. Yeah. It's like a wing, only vertical. Horse, vertical? Horse, horizontal? Horse, vertical. I tried to get it right, but there you go. Speaking of learning things, so I was cleaning my nightstand out over the weekend, and I came across a book I had completely forgotten about that I absolutely loved. So when I started flying, I was like a sponge. I wanted as much
[4:53] information as I could get trying to figure out how the physics of all this works because I'm a nerd, sure. Well, I mean, I wasn't going to say it. You can. I'm okay. But you're a nerd. So there's a book that came out in 1944, and it's called Stick and Rudder, An Explanation of the Art of Flying. So this, like I said, was released a long time ago, but it goes over all of the basics of flight. I cannot recommend it enough for somebody that wants to know more about,
[5:22] really, how all of this works. Right. The chapters are broken apart into, well, like, I've got the book here. Oh, hit the table. Yeah. Chapter one is how a wing is flown. Chapter two is the airplane's gates. Chapter three is lift and buoyancy. Chapter four is the flying instinct. Yeah. It goes over wings, the controls, basic maneuvers. Right. It's aimed for full-scale pilots. But, I mean, airplanes fly the same, big or small. Really, the principles of flight grow with it.
[5:55] And that's what I'm looking for. Small translates to big. Yeah. I'll go along with that. So, good book. I can't recommend it enough so i've never read it myself but i thumbed through it just a little bit here before we sat down and my take on it is i'm obviously not an engineer i'm not a pilot or at least not a full-size pilot i would say that the explanations and descriptions and theories that are kind of presented in the book are more designed for a pilot.
[6:30] obviously a pilot doesn't need to understand really Bernoulli's principle or, or any of these other, theories and, principles that are used to describe lift and, and why an airplane flies. A pilot doesn't really need to know that. A pilot just needs to know how this happens or how that happens or what circumstances cause this or whatever. And that's how the book is written. So I actually kind of like the perspective that the book comes from because as a pilot, like I said,
[7:01] you don't need to understand Newton's third law or Bernoulli's principle or any of that kind of stuff. But it does a good job. It does a good job of explaining the basics. And that's, like I said, that's what I think is important to it. It kind of goes over how you stall, why you stall, what's going on when your wing stalls, what a stall is and all that kind of stuff.
[7:21] It goes over landings, how to set up an approach, which you're doing the same thing, scale, like models or full size. Right. So it's going to be the same setup. You're just looking at it from a different view. So it was a very good book. I saw it. I'm going to give it to Tom to read. Yeah, I'm going to take it home and read it. And I cannot recommend it enough if you are wanting to learn more about the principles of flight.
[7:44] And it's one thing to hear somebody talk about, for instance, how Lyft is developed. It's one thing to hear somebody talk about it, but to see it in print with illustrations and things like that, it's really pretty handy. Yeah. Keep in mind, 1944 is when this was originally published. You can still buy it. And still relevant. Still very relevant, actually. Yeah.
[8:04] I mean, the science doesn't change. News laws don't change. Nope. So, you. Still very relevant, actually. Yeah. I mean, the science doesn't change. Newton's laws don't change. Nope. So,. Good book, though. Yep. I like it a lot, actually. I can't wait to get home and read it when I have time. I got to ride my bike. Here we go. Other thing I wanted to bring up is we have officially launched the RC Plane Lab Forums. This is a place that, we've had a lot of survey feedback
[8:28] saying that people wanted a place to kind of go and discuss things, post questions, be able to share, like, their own build blogs and all that kind of stuff. So the website is, are you ready for it? Forums.rcplainlab.com. That's easy enough. It can't get any harder than that. And even if you spell it wrong and you do forum.rcplanelab.com. That's easy enough. It can't get any harder than that. And even if you spell it wrong and you do forum.rcplanelab.com, it takes you to the right place.
[8:51] But no, so here's the thing. Roam wasn't built in a day. There is not a lot of content there now. If you go over there, there's a few things to kind of post and talk about, but we really want to get some people over there filling out, posting on the forums and doing some stuff. If this doesn't work and we don't get a lot of people doing it, we'll take it down. I mean, like, I'm not saying that as like you do this or else, but I'm just
[9:14] saying it's a threat. This is something we're trying. I'm excited to see how it turns out. It might work. It might not work. I think it could be really really great i'm a huge forums fan i like rc forums i'm on them at work all the time i'm saying forums not forms right is that what you're laughing at me about no have you been our forums yet yeah well when you did the beta test i was on there have you posted anything i have not posted
[9:43] anything i know that's why I'm laughing. Well, so I'll be honest. I'm more of a reader than I am a poster. Oh. If that makes sense. So you're a stalker. Yeah. You're a forum stalker. I am a, sure, whatever. Okay, sure. That works. But I will, I will go check them out. But like I said, I'm a huge fan of them because just like Facebook and other types of social media, the news that you get is only as good as the people that put it on there.
[10:13] So I like to see what other people think and what they do and what they're working on. So like I said, I'm a huge fan of them, and hopefully it'll take off and I'll post some stuff on there. I hope it'll take off. I like that. I do, too. Yeah, you need to go visit and see what it's like. Well, I will. I'll be honest. I was underwhelmed during the beta test phase.
[10:39] I was, like, I expected it to have, threads and categories and all that sort of stuff, but none of that stuff has been built out. So I was like, oh, there's nothing here. So you didn't think to post something? Well, to be honest, I didn't know if I could. I didn't know if I was allowed because I didn't technically register as a new user. How did you register? I just went to the – I clicked the beta test link that you sent me, and that's where it took me. I just assumed it.
[11:04] But then you registered i must have at some point because i had my username popped up because you gave me a hard time about my username i still think you ought to change it wow we get way off topic on that and i'm gonna not really we're still talking about the forums that's on our notes i i know i don't think everybody wants to hear the behind the scenes on that one.
[11:31] No, but with the forum, so it's, like I said, the whole point of it is to have a place for all of our buddies, all of our people to listen to us, to go ask questions, see what everybody else is working on and just kind of have a place to hang out. Like I said, if it works, great. If it doesn't work, well, I hope it does. Well, and here's the thing. all of our users, or users, excuse me, all of our listeners are sort of not connected together. Yeah.
[11:52] Their only connection is listening to us every Friday or whenever they choose to download the episode. This would be a way for them to connect with each other. Yeah. And either talk about RC Planes or talk about the podcast, talk about whatever they want. Yeah. And either talk about RC Planes or talk about the podcast. Talk about whatever they want. So I think it's like it adds another link to the chain, I think, connecting us all together. Beautifully said.
[12:14] I like that. Does that make sense? No, I get it. That does. So yeah, we're trying it out. Go over, see what it's like. You can also go to rcplanelab.com and click on the, the forums link on the top, which at this point I don't have it set up. And that's why I stumbled for a second. Cause I forgot I haven't done that yet. but I will get the links all set up on there. So, Hey, speaking of the website, we don't, we don't hit it very often,
[12:40] but there's actually a lot of stuff on our website. Like there's links to swag. If you want to buy, shirts and stuff like that, there's a, there's actually a lot of stuff on our website. Like there's links to swag if you want to buy, shirts and stuff like that. There's, there's links to our listener photos. There's the stuff that we're doing with the dualists that we're posting. I mean, there's a lot of stuff on the website.
[12:55] So if you're not hitting the website, it's not a bad place to check out. Yeah. There's electric motors, all that stuff's on there too. Beginner RC airplane page. it kind of goes over everything. So, yeah, it's pretty cool. There's been a lot of work going through it. Yeah, there has. So, on your part, I mean. I mean, you've done a lot of work to keep it updated and to post my pictures that I send to you that I don't post myself. what?
[13:21] You can start posting them on the forums. Hey, that's not a bad idea. That's not a bad idea. Maybe I'll start a build thread on the Duelist or something, just kind of dump all the pictures I have there. Yeah, that's not a bad idea. Maybe I'll do that. That's a great idea. So, cool. So the other thing I was able to do this weekend. Okay, so I asked my wife about, we, okay. So we talked. I love this story, by the way. This is, this is, this is classic how Ron and Crystal,
[13:51] how their relationship works. So, before when we were talking about hanging the airplanes in the garage, she told me no holes in the wall. No holes in the wall. Nothing permanent. Nothing permanent. Correct. Because she didn't want to have to fix it. And I guess if i move stuff or anything like that well that wasn't the reason you told me she said that okay i mean okay so i don't want to get anybody in trouble no i'm you can't you're not
[14:15] gonna get me in trouble so the reason she didn't want that done was pretty much out of spite because earlier in the year she wanted to hang hang some garden hose, garden utensil, all that kind of stuff out in the garage on the wall. And I told her, no. I don't want to walk out to the garage and see a whole bunch of stuff, gardening stuff, hanging out on the wall. It's not airplanes. You don't want to go out there and see a bunch of stuff that's not airplanes.
[14:50] Well, is that a bad thing? Oh, I'm not judging. Okay. So, and I kind of like to have the garage be presentable because I don't know why, but I like to have that. that's where I have a TV out there. I have, we have stuff out there we can hang out with. Our fancy new laser cutters. I was going to say that's where our laser cutter is. So I'm going
[15:01] to be spending some time out there. So Friday I asked her, I was like, hey, I'm coming to you to ask for permission, even though I know it's better to ask for forgiveness. So let's look at that because what? I'm coming to you just to make sure this is okay. you just to make sure this is okay. I said, I would like to put some racks on the wall and just put two screws in each one of these little brackets that go up so I can hang my
[15:31] planes out there. And she said, pretty much I'll quote, just do whatever you want. So I got permission from her to go ahead and hang the stuff outside. Your definition of permission and mine are clearly different. No, what's wrong with that? That sort of permission, I'm using my air quotes here, that sort of permission is the kind of permission that can come back and bite you, years, months, years down the road.
[16:01] See, a clear permission is something to the tune, at least in my house, something to the tune of, oh yeah, that's okay. I don't mind it. That'll be fine. Oh, that might actually look kind of neat. That's a clear, you have the green light to do whatever this is. Okay, do whatever you want. I don't care. That is not the same type of permission. And it's not in my household anyway. She said to go ahead and do it. That's what I heard. That's not the end of that, folks. No, I think it is.
[16:37] Because, I'm going to be, to be 100% honest, we have talked about it before. And she even admitted the only reason she didn't want a hanging was pretty much out of spite. she said, you wouldn't let me hang my stuff, so I'm not going to let you hang your stuff. And we kind of talked about it. We joked about it. We laughed about it. So now is she going to hang some garden utensils out there now, too? Oh, God, no. You're not even going to, like, give her any concessions?
[16:56] Well, I tried to. Actually, I built the cabinets for the front of the garage, and she has a whole bunch of space out there for storing her stuff for the garden. And we do have gardening stuff in the garage. Yeah. So it's just not hanging on the wall. It's on the ground. But wouldn't it look better if it was hanging up and organized on the wall? I mean, you don't need all three walls out there, right? I offered to build her a little shed for out by the garage.
[17:28] So she would have to go outside to… No, I'm sorry. A shed for out by the garden. Which is where you… Again, she would have to go outside to go put her stuff away or take it out or whatever. That she uses in the garden? Yeah. That's perfect because it's right by the garden. You don't have to go anywhere. You don't have to carry it from the garage to the garden. That's a good point. Right. And she said she didn't want it.
[17:49] Which, by the way, not to get way too off topic because, well, it's going to happen to people. The left side of my shop, of the outbuilding we have, is fully stocked with all of her stuff for gardening. She just doesn't have to walk all the way out there to get it and go to the garden. Which I'm cool with that. That's why there's some stuff out in the garage. But the stuff that she doesn't use once a year is out in the shop. So, we've made that
[18:16] compromise kind of thing. So the stuff she uses daily or weekly for the garden is in the shop. Sorry, you're right. In the garage. So now we're cool. But anyway, so I did get these racks hung. So you got permission. I got permission. I mean, it was an astounding, sure, do whatever you want. So I did whatever I wanted. That's your green light. Okay. I ended up, I put three holes in each one instead of two, and that's on me. I'm sorry, but I couldn't stay up there right with two. So I
[18:44] screwed them in. I mean, it looks nice. And she admitted it looks nice. She has no problem with him being up. so my next step is going to be, I can only take her at her word, Tom. Well, that's true. So I don't read between the lines with things. I think people that know me know if I tell you something, that's exactly what I mean. And if you tell me something, that's exactly what I'm going to go with. True. Yeah. I don't beat around the bush. That's true.
[19:18] So my next step is to take the wooden racks down that I built and actually hang those directly on the wall too. So I'm excited about that. But the only thing I have to do now, a lot of the airplanes that are a little bit too big to hang on there so i'm gonna have to try and find some scrap iron or some some scrap iron or something out in the shop to kind of weld onto the the shelf brackets to make it a little bit longer the arms longer yeah so that way i can
[19:36] actually get bigger planes stored on it but yeah i'm looking forward to doing that so yeah fun that's a fun project it's always fun when you can play with your airplanes, even if it's just arranging them in storage. No, I agree. And every time you handle your airplane, there's an opportunity for you to do what? Break it? Inspect it. Oh. We were going the completely different way. Yeah, how we… Different, yeah. Interesting. -huh.
[20:02] So, which reminds me, we haven't flown it yet, but I did go ahead and get the Telemaster all put back together. Oh, sweet. Finally. Okay. And then I hung it back on the wall. So, whenever we're ready to go out, that thing is ready to go. Well, it won't be this weekend because I have to work. I know. But hopefully the next weekend, hopefully we'll have the nice fall weather with hopefully mild winds and mild temperatures. That'd be nice. Yeah, I'd like a good day trip out to the shop.
[20:28] Oh, my gosh. I'd like a good day trip out to the field. It's been a while for me. Yeah. I know you were just there, but it's been a while for me. Well, I'm not just there. That was two weeks ago already. Oh, man. Time flies. Right? Anyway. So, yeah. My dualist update. You ready? I'm ready. All right. So, I got both panels sheeted, which is no small feat because there's a lot of internal structure on my wing that I have to worry about that you're not too worried about with yours.
[20:56] Landing gear, retractable landing gear, stuff like that. And the mounting blocks. and the mounting blocks. And once all that internal structure is covered with sheeting, it's not easy to then locate the holes for said… That totally distracted me. Like so many comments. Sorry, I took a drink and I couldn't find the straw very well. Anyway. So yeah, that internal structure gets covered by the sheeting and then it's not easy then to locate the holes underneath the shading
[21:29] because the shading is obscuring your view. So I took a bunch of pictures and came up with a plan, which the pictures you so graciously posted on our website. I did. The captions. I did. So if you want the how-to on how I did that, it's there. But quickly, I made a template and used that to then lay over the top of the sheeting once the wing was sheeted to make my cutouts. A clear template. Yes. And it worked beautifully. It really did. My cutouts are
[21:56] very, very clean and they're spot on where the servo and the gear mount are located. So where the servo and the gear mount are located. So both panels are sheeted. I've still got some small trimming to do on, where the gear retracts. I have to make the, the cutout for the rest of that. But after that, I'm ready to join the two panels together to become one, one wing. And then I will be almost caught up with you. Well, no, because you're ahead of me on the wing.
[22:27] Well, am I, though? Like, your wing is one piece. True. Like, I'll be honest.
[22:40] I've been stalling on this wing part now because I am at the point where you just did what you had to do with lining up the holes in the sheeting for the servos. Okay. I wasn't sure how to do it, so I kind of shied away from it. Okay. So I'm glad, like, timing-wise, this worked out perfect because now with you doing that I know how to do it. And it's dead simple. I mean there's nothing to it. In fact, I actually made the cutouts in my
[22:55] shooting before I glued it to the airframe. Right, yeah, that would be my plan. Because then I could use, those holes to line everything up. And yeah, it worked out really, really well. So I encourage anyone who's interested in seeing how I did that to get on the website and look at the pictures and read the descriptions. Yeah, which is what I did. And now I know what I'm supposed to do next. So hopefully I'll have a chance to do that this weekend. I don't know why I wouldn't.
[23:17] Last weekend was kind of busy. I was hanging airplanes in the garage. Getting permission. Well, yeah, I mean, I, it was a resounding yes in my mind. So that part is done. Well, I mean, you took her at her word, so. Yeah. And, and she said, do whatever. Do whatever. So, I mean, that really kind of clears the, clears the way for you to do whatever kind of you want out there, right? Oh, I thought about some other things I wanted to do, but I didn't do it yet. So, yeah.
[23:49] So, yeah, that's my dualist update. It doesn't sound like much now that I've put it out there, but it was actually… No, you were excited about all the stuff you did. It was actually quite a bit of work. Didn't do much. Yeah. No, that's cool, though. So, yeah, I'll catch up to you this weekend for sure but i did you were already i mean you've started the fuselage i haven't i haven't even begun fuselage or nacelle construction i got i have my worked on the wing i got my nacelle
[24:19] designed oh yeah and i think i'm ready to cut, except I'm going to wait. I ordered the motors for it, so I think I want to wait and get those on and just kind of mock it up, if you will, before I actually cut anything so I know everything's going to line up right and do it the way it's supposed to be done. Yeah. That's a good plan. And I should have those tomorrow. Like I said, this is Tuesday we're recording, so I'm supposed to have those tomorrow at Amazon. Nice.
[24:43] And we'll be able to get that stuff kind of set up. What size motors did you end up with? Oh, I knew you were going to ask that, and I don't remember what it was. I'd have to look it up for sure. But they were only like $25 a piece. What sort of power requirement for those? It'll run on a 3 to a 5 cell LiPo. Okay. Like a 3000 or something like that? Maybe a little bit bigger? It'll have to be a little bit bigger than that. I'm planning on putting like a four or 5000 battery in it.
[25:14] It all depends on the size, but I'm gonna go with 4S for sure. And I think that should be enough power on that. So, and each one of the motors, I think it said on there, is supposed to pull like 2,150 grams, which is four and a half pounds. Double that up. What do you think this airplane's going to weigh? It's not going to be a nine or ten pound airplane. It's probably going to be close to that. That's what I thought. It's going to be like a nine or ten pound airplane.
[25:40] Because, honestly, I'm projecting mine, like, and I'm being conservative. I'm saying mine's going to weigh 11.5 to 12. Yours is going to be really heavy, though. Right. Because you have a lot more going into it than I do. And dang it, Dave Platt, the guy that designed the airplane, he said he always advertised like nine pounds or something like that. I think it even says on the plans like nine. Yeah. You're not going to build this airplane at nine pounds
[26:05] unless you're taking severe measures with wood choice and lightning holes. And I mean, there's just no way to build this airplane that light with nitro power. So I'm optimistic. I'm going to say 11 and a half pounds, but mine's going to be probably closer to 12. But we'll see. I mean, I've been very careful. You've helped me out with cutting holes, lightning holes in the wing ribs and the fuselage formers and things like that. So we'll see.
[26:35] I'm hoping for 11 and a half or under would be fantastic, but I'm guessing it's going to be close to 12, even with MonoKote. This will be interesting. I can't wait to actually find out because mine, like I said, I know mine's going to be lighter than yours. Absolutely. I don't have nearly everything going into it that you do. Absolutely. I don't have the retractable gear. Right. So I don't have the air tank. I don't have the airlines. I don't have the servos for your motors.
[26:59] The servos for the two throttles. For your throttle servos. There's just a lot of stuff that I will not have. the extra weight just of the retracts too i mean all that like the physical retract and i chose 3 16th wire for the gear legs because i wanted it to because it's i'm anticipating it being heavy which i had to bend which that's that's another story well tell us what would you do well did you do? Well, that's one of the other things I got done this weekend.
[27:28] To finish the cutouts for the wing, I had to have the gear. And to have the gear, I needed to know how long the gear legs needed to be. And to have the gear legs at the right length, they had to be bent because they come straight. So I had to go to Lowe's, buy a torch, which I couldn't believe I didn't own.
[27:46] I had to go to Lowe's, buy a torch, which I couldn't believe I didn't own. Like I went out into the garage, just assuming there was a torch out there. Cause like who doesn't have a torch in their workshop. Right. but then I was out there, I was like, I don't recall ever buying a torch. So I just assumed I just assumed would magically appear in my garage, which it didn't. So to Lowe's I went, I bought, kind of a middle of
[28:06] the road, what I thought, oh, this burns-o-matic propane powered torch will be fine. Says it'll do, light brazing and whatever else. I think it even said that flame temperature is like 1800 degrees or whatever I'm like. And I'm thinking back to my machinist days, 1800. Yeah, that's enough to get steel, red hot. So I bought it, got home, chucked my gear in the vice. And, when you bend wire gear, you have to account for material stretch and things like that. So
[28:38] usually wherever you make your mark for the bend, it's not going to end up where the bend actually happens. So you have to factor in, a small amount of waste. So I marked my gear, let's say I wanted my gear bend, the bend for the wheel, the right angle bend at the end of the gear leg. Say I wanted that to be three inches from the retract unit. Well, I don't mark it at three inches. I mark it, in this case, since I was using 316s, I use half of that thickness.
[29:14] So half of 316s is 332. One and a half 16s? 332. So I go out to three inches, and then I subtract 332, and that's where I make my mark, and that's where I chuck it in the vice where I'm going to bend it over I don't have one of those cool KNS tubing benders or wire benders or I think Dubrow makes a nice one too I don't own one I should but I don't bend enough wire to justify buying one although now maybe I will yeah because this was quite a
[29:40] chore you bought some torches so yeah well I'm glad you said torches because the first torch wasn't hot enough to get the gear wire red hot the way it needs to be to bend it without breaking the hardened wire. So back to Lowe's I go, and I get the map torch this time, the big daddy, the yellow, has a yellow cylinder. It's map gas. Yeah. Or not map gas yeah yeah and that did the trick that got it hot you bought another torch yeah you can just get
[30:14] the different gas for it right the the first torch i bought according to burns matic that torch tip whatever only works with propane the propane the green propane cylinders oh so apparently the the not even the blue ones no it's not adjustable like you click the button and there's there's not even a flame adjustment it's just on what'd you get the cheapest one you could find well i mean it wasn't the most expensive no so i got the would have been cheaper to buy a good one right instead
[30:41] of two yeah oh yeah or you should have asked me because seriously i have like four you're like 25 ish minutes away so that's an hour out here but then you get to see me well yeah i do and that's all the more reason not to come out here i gotcha so anyway i see enough wow so i I went back to Lowe's and got the Big Daddy torch, the MAP gas. And it's actually a really nice torch. I foresee using it on lots of other projects. But it did the trick.
[31:13] It got the wire hot enough to where I could bend it. So two trips to Lowe's, two torches. I'm not going to mention how much I spent on these two torches combined. It was more than I care to admit. Give us a ballpark. it was two used rc engines that i could have bought okay two used nitro motors i could have bought for what i paid yeah but what's the view i don't know what a used one is well you can get if you search the
[31:35] forums like i'm always searching the buy and sell you can get a good 40 size nitro motor used one that's in good shape for 45 50 bucks or so so you spent a hundred bucks on two I mean that would have been so much quicker to say it's been a hundred bucks on two torches well that's how I look at like costs like how many used engines can I buy for what I'm spending on that's how I but see this is this is a tool so that comes out of a different budget that's not like no yeah
[32:03] oh it sure does no That doesn't come. Maybe at your house, but at my house, it's one budget for everything. No, I have budgeted money for the RC airplane stuff, but no, so yeah, the tools like that kind of stuff that can be used for other things, that's a different pot that comes out of it. At any rate, I got my gear legs bent, which by the way, just a quick note about bending wire for landing gear. So the wire is going to bend where it's heated. So you want to make sure
[32:34] wherever you get it red hot, because it has to be red hot to bend without stressing the metal, wherever you get it red hot, that's where it's going to bend. So if your mark is, an eighth of an inch above the vice jaws and you heat the metal down by the vice jaws, that's where it's going to bend. So your bend is going to be an eighth inch short. So just a note, line up your mark where you plan on heating it and bend it at that point, if that makes sense.
[33:01] Yeah, and you really don't want to heat right at the vice or the vice the vice job wow i'm gonna have a problem with that you don't want to heat it at the jaws of the vice or the vice jaws sure whatever because that's going to suck so much heat out of there it does that you're not going to be able to get a good heat into that right so you're going to want a little or have a little bit of room between it and where you're trying to heat up and bend. And the more concentrated or small
[33:28] place you can concentrate that heat the better because you don't want your… In my case, I didn't want my 90 degree bend to have a one inch radius. I wanted it nice and sharp because you're gonna put a wheel on it, right? With a wheel collar probably. So anyway, once I got it and then i was able to finish the the cutouts and the wing and stuff like that so so now did you do the whole
[33:50] sorry did you do the whole like 100 or no 360 degree bend in that too for like little springs those came with those already on them oh i was lucky but that knS tool and I think the Dubrow tool, you can do that. You can make those curly Q. Those are essentially designed to be springs on your landing gear. But no, I did not have to do that. Thank goodness. Oh, I thought that's what you had to do.
[34:17] No, all I had to do was I had to make the 90-degree bend at the end where I wanted it for my wheel. And then I had to trim the axle length. at the end where I wanted it for my wheel, and then I had to trim the axle length. Well, that, okay, so that makes a little bit more sense to me, because I thought at first you were talking about bending that circle in there. No. And so I was curious as to why you were worried about lining it up perfectly, why you wouldn't
[34:35] just, like, cut or, make that bend wherever it ends up being on that rod, and then cut the rod to size afterwards. And that's, if I had to do it that way, that's exactly how I would do it. Okay. I would not worry so much about the distance because you could trim it, trim the end of it later. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. No, no, I didn't have to do that. Thank goodness. Yeah, that is. But I did have to, my, my axle or my gear legs had to match.
[34:58] So I had to, whatever the process I used for the first one, I had to exactly match that on the second one. So they came out to be the same length. And it worked out pretty good? It did. Yeah. They came out within, I mean, they… Close enough where you can't tell. When I laid them together, yeah, they're identical, so… Awesome. Yeah. There was one more thing. Oh, so when you… This is a metallurgical little tidbit.
[35:21] When you heat something to red hot, you're essentially, well, not essentially, you are annealing it. So you're reverting that steel to its softest form. And sorry, just really quick. When you say red hot, that's actually a temperature. It is. So like there's red hot, there's white hot. Yeah. I don't know what they all are, but. Yeah. I don't know what the
[35:41] temperatures are. Actually, I had, back when I was a machinist i had a book that on heat treating that had all those temperatures but exactly right there was color represented a certain temperature range and i just learned that not that long ago and i thought that was pretty interesting yeah so red hot is the temperature at which you're annealing the steel and that allows it to bend without stressing and the granular structure and it doesn't misplace the
[36:02] molecules and stuff like that white hot you're actually getting the steel hot enough to actually alter the molecular configuration of those molecules so they don't line up exactly the way they did before heating it. At any rate, when you heat something red hot, it becomes soft. And if you let it air cool, or I was going to say air dry, but when you let it air cool. And I knew what you meant. It cools in an annealed condition. So you have to quench it.
[36:32] And quenching it sort of locks in and brings that hardness back to the steel. And to do that, you have to heat it back up to being red hot. And then you dip it in water to rapidly cool it back to oil. The reason you do oil is because that adds carbon to the mix and carbon infused steel is supposed to be a little bit more resilient than just steel that doesn't have that carbon component but at the size
[36:59] i'm dealing with and the amount of stress that it i didn't need a bucket of oil to quench it in. And see, I always thought that the water cooled it down too quick to where it made it brittle. Brittle. I've heard that, but in my experience as a machinist, granted, we didn't do anything to the point where we had to pass Rockwell hardness tests or anything like that, but I never experienced brittleness when quenching
[37:25] it that way on any of the stuff i did so but i wasn't making hammer faces and stuff like that either so if it's something you're gonna be impacting yeah maybe that makes a difference you certainly don't want a piece of that chipping off and hitting you in the face but on a landing gear wire i'm i'm not too. Yeah, it's going to see, what, like 20 pounds of force maybe if you have a really hard landing, and it shouldn't even be nearly that much. Hopefully, yeah.
[37:50] Hopefully I'm pretty smooth with it. You weren't with the last one. Well, that wasn't an attempt at landing. That was just air rounds backwards. I know, but I'm still making fun of you for crashing it in case nobody else got that. Yeah, thanks. You crashed the first one. That's why we're in this whole predicament right now. I know. It's because of something you did 30 years ago. It's my fault. You're building a dualist because it's my fault. I know.
[38:11] I feel like I got sucked into it by myself. Like, I mean, I'm the one that, like, sucked myself into it. So that's my dualist update. Yeah. I don't have one, like I said before, so perfect. Well, you did some stuff since the last time I was here. Oh, I cut four pieces and put them on the fuselage. You got four pieces glued onto the fuselage. I mean, that's something. Yeah, that's four pieces. So not even enough to take a picture of and worry about. You should still take a progress pic.
[38:38] I guess I should take a picture and worry about it. Yeah. Okay, I'll take a picture and put it on the line. Okay, thanks. Just to make you feel better. Just to appease me, please. Just gives me more work. Yeah. Okay, I'll take a picture and put it on the line. Okay, thanks. Just to make you feel better. Just to appease me, please. Just gives me more work. Okay. I mean, I don't. Really, it's one picture. You're right. With a little description. It's pretty easy. Okay, I'll do that.
[38:59] So, yeah. Now, do you want to talk about your Fusion 360, which I'm all ears. So, I do, yeah. Now, do you want to talk about your Fusion 360, which I'm all ears. So, I do, actually. Now, I'll preface this by saying this is more, we're kind of, I don't want to say getting off topic because this really plays into RC airplanes. But this is going to be more along the lines of 3D printing parts for RC airplanes. Yes. And the software that goes into doing that. Right.
[39:24] So, there's a really cool program called Fusion 360. It's a CAD program that was designed by Autodesk. They're the same people that do like AutoCAD and all that. So this program, I've been using it for a couple of years. And there's a big hullabaloo online now because there's— You really like that word. I do. Hullabaloo. Hullabaloo. Why not? It's an interesting word. You just really like it. You've made fun of me over the past for phrases that I've used or whatever.
[40:03] Like when I've said something, I think it was, I used the word atop, and you made fun of me. So I'm gonna make fun of you for using hullabaloo. Okay. Okay, I'm done. Oh, that's it? You're making fun of me? I was waiting for it. Okay. So there's quite the hullabaloo online. So Fusion 360 kind of changes the way, or sorry, they're kind of changing the way they're doing things And a lot of people are not too excited about it They're not happy about it
[40:32] So Fusion 360 is actually a program that was designed for professionals It's got a lot of features to it And it's a very expensive program for you to use in business What's very expensive program for you to use in business. What's very expensive? Let's see. They've changed their pricing around so much, but you're in the thousands of dollars. And, like, they've kind of changed it now to where it's a subscription service.
[40:57] And for, like, I think they have it now to where it's $400 a year, $500 a year, maybe something like that. I don't know because I've never really thought about doing it, like paying for it. But they do have Fusion 360 for hobbyists and for personal use. It's the same thing, but they kind of use that term back and forth. And what that means is if you're not making money with it, you get it for which is awesome there's a lot of people that is good well free is good especially for a
[41:30] program that's that powerful that expensive it's actually so powerful that i don't like i don't know it very well because i haven't used it too often but whenever i need to try and do like a 3d part like a 3d modeled part that's kind of my go-to for it. That's what I've used to do like some cowls before and some other things. But so they're changing it into where you don't get all the features with the free version that you do with the paid version. Now I can't fault them for that
[42:02] because they never, like when they went ahead and started making this, the people that were putting it together and designing it, they never planned on releasing it for free. I mean, they're a business. They're trying to make money on it. Sure. So they went ahead and released it to hobbyists for nothing.
[42:25] head and released it to hobbyists for nothing. And they had, I mean, really, it was kind of like a symbiotic relationship because the people that were using it for no charge were the ones really learning it and kind of giving them feedback, promoting it. You're correct. And they would do like YouTube videos and all that kind of stuff. So the long story short of it is people started to not do it correctly and they were using it commercially without paying for the license.
[42:48] that's… Few bad apples spoiling it for the rest of you. It happens, unfortunately. So what they're doing is they're taking away a lot of the features that were not hidden behind a paywall and hiding it behind a paywall now. You have to subscribe to it. hidden behind a paywall and hiding it behind a paywall now. You have to subscribe to it.
[43:11] But you still get the free version with enough features and stuff for everything that I would need to do. Like, nothing is going to change for me. I can still design. I can still export the STL file. I can still print it with Cura on my 3D printer because I don't use that as the actual program to drive the 3d printer you used to be able to print directly from that program to your printer like it would take care of all that you could run a cnc machine with that program does it do all the
[43:34] post processing and all that too well yes but not on the free version anymore okay so you can't use it as a cam program like you could before However, my CNC machine and all that stuff is driven by different software completely, so I don't use that for AIM designs or anything like that. But I guess what I'm getting to is if you're wanting to get into the 3D printing and you're hearing all these people complaining now,
[43:58] because this takes effect August 1st is when they're putting all these changes in, don't worry about it. Did I say August 1st? You did. I lied. It's taking effect October 1st is when they're putting all these changes in. Don't worry about it. Did I say August 1st? You did. I lied. It's taking effect October 1st. October, okay. So whatever that day is. So anyway, don't be scared to try that program if you're trying to
[44:20] get into 3D printing and you want to learn something. That is still by far the most powerful program that you're going to find. Even the free version. Well, especially the free version now, because they're taking away the things that as a hobbyist and, somebody doing something personally, you don't have to worry about. I mean, you don't need the features that they're
[44:41] taking away. Does that make sense? I mean, I don't think I'm doing a good job of trying to explain what I'm saying. So for a professional who uses those features, they're going to probably, their company's either going to buy the program for them to use or whatever. So it's going to be transparent to them and it's going to be transparent probably to hobbyists because they don't need those high-end features anyway because they're not mass producing
[45:03] or they're not doing stuff for, a big company making money off of it. So it's really a lot of hullabaloo about nothing. Yes. Yes, it is. At least in a hobbyist's eyes. And it is. So like I said, just don't be afraid to try the program if you're getting 3D printing. Don't shy away from it. They said they have no plans, which I know that can change, but they said they have no plans on taking away the personal use license and stuff so you can still get it for free.
[45:31] You just don't get everything. You don't get all the file exports. You don't get all the different ways of working with your files outside of the program. But it's nothing that doesn't translate over to what we're doing. So… I understand what you're saying just don't be afraid of it. I went through something similar back when I owned my own vinyl cutter, which I think you have now. I do. And I was using a free version of the program was called Flexi, Flexi Sign.
[46:03] And the same sort of thing, happened back then, it was a free version and you could do basic, basic stuff. And I don't remember exactly what it was, but a lot of the stuff that I never used, they took away, and made you pay for them. And I kept using the free version, like as if nothing had happened because I didn't miss anything. So I know I kind know I kind of can relate to what you're talking about yeah but back then
[46:28] there was no forums for people to get all upset about oh I mean there's so many people on YouTube and all that that are going through well I'm never using them again this is baloney this is not baloney what they said but right I mean they're just very upset about it's like look this is a company that yeah it's a very very powerful piece of software and you have to understand the rights yeah it's a company and
[46:49] they're in business right to make money i mean that's why they're in business they're trying to feed their families and earn a living and just like we are and if if closing some features down and making people pay for them helps them to pay their bills, then you can't fault them for that. And like even now, I think like you can get the next step up that pretty much has everything. If I remember in the email I saw for, it was like 40 bucks a month, 50 bucks a month,
[47:16] maybe something in there. And if you're making money with it, I mean, that's just a cost of new business. Right. Like after I bought that vinyl cutter off of you, I ended up buying an actual piece of software from Roland, that did everything that the, the trial version you had did and more. Yeah. And it works great. Yeah. So that's kind of my thought on things. I don't have a problem paying for software if it's going to do what I need it to do. Yeah.
[47:42] The software for the CNC machine was very expensive. but it was worthwhile because now I don't have to worry about it. Yeah, you can do pretty much whatever you need to do without worrying about the limitation of the program you're using. So when I first did the CNC machine and built the computer for it, I tried to use the Linux-based CNC software. They had an actual Linux build that was made just for
[48:07] driving CNC machines. And I thought, perfect. I love the free software thing. I love Ubuntu. I loved all that kind of stuff. But just, I paid, and I think the software I bought for it was three or four hundred bucks. And that's just, I mean, that's not Windows, that's nothing like that. That's just the software to drive the CNC machine to actually take care of the G-code, to output it to the motor controllers and stuff. But what? With that, like,
[48:36] I finally got so sick of the Linux thing because there would always have crashes, there would always be problems, and I was spending so much time trying to figure out and chase these little demons down and figure out what's going wrong with it that I wasn't getting anything else done. By spending that, like I said, $300 or $400, whatever it was, on the software that I'm using now, I have not had to deal with it once. I installed it, I set it up, and I've never had a problem. Yeah.
[48:59] Well worth the money. It runs when you hit start. Yeah. Yeah. So other than me losing a computer once, I've never had a problem. But that's not the software's problem. So, I guess just when things like that happen, all I'm saying is calm down, take a deep breath, figure out what's going on. And for us hobbyists that would use this Fusion 360 for what we're doing, no difference. Yeah. Because really we're doing it the way they want you to do it. Exactly.
[49:30] we still have access to the files that we need because we're not, we're 3D printing things. We're not doing anything industrial. Right. And all the file types and stuff they've taken away are more industrial types. One of the things they took away that I'm not too fond of is the DXF file export. But apparently they said there's still a way to kind of work around that. And DXF is like all I work with when it comes to CNC stuff. It's like a DWG format, but just more,
[49:54] instead of being Autodesk, which is DWG, it's more like everybody else knows DXF files. And so that's what the 2D CAD is done and that I work with. Okay. I hope I work with. Okay. I hope I didn't bore you. No, I understand DWG. I used that when I was using, we used Auto, I'm sorry, we used, what was it called? AutoCAD? No, CAD CAM. Oh. It was one of the programs I used back in the machine shop days. Yeah, I've heard of that. Same type of deal, DWG files. Yeah, there's that.
[50:28] And then one of the other free programs for CNC stuff is CamBam. And they don't have the features that you get with a paid program. Yeah. So that happens. But you can still use the program for hobbyist-type stuff, which is good news for us hobbyists yeah and it really is like i said that the people that are i think and i could be wrong but the people that are really upset about it i think the people that were using it incorrectly to begin with
[50:54] so probably the people that were more industrial and shouldn't be using it people making the most noise were the ones that were causing the problems to begin with. Right. Yeah. Isn't that odd? Yeah. Anyway. All right. So that's your Fusion 360 rant. Yeah. Anything else you want to talk about? Well, I mean, I forgot to mention on last week's episode that although things went swimmingly at the field when I flew that S-Box, I did encounter one problem,
[51:25] on the first flight. And that was the, servo arm, the bolts to the servo actually came off of one of my ailerons in flight. Oh yeah. it was weird because I was flying along and this was the very first flight, basically my maiden of that airplane. And, even though everything went great about half, well, more than halfway, almost the end of the flight, I noticed the response on the ailerons wasn't like it was at the beginning of the flight.
[51:54] I was like, well, that's kind of strange. And, timer was going off. It was time to land anyway. So I was like, okay, well, I'll shoot an approach here, see how it goes. And if I like it, I'll go ahead and land. If not, I'll go around and try another one. So I made my approach, and as I turn on the final, I'm looking at the airplane, obviously, because you look at the airplane because you're flying it. That's usually how I do it. I guess not everybody does. Not everybody.
[52:17] we know somebody that likes to not look at his airplane while flying it. But anyway, I'm looking at the airplane, and I notice that there's something hanging down off the right-hand wing underneath it. And as it gets closer, I'm like, well, I'm going to go ahead and land, but there's something not right about that. And then as it goes in front of me, I'm a few feet off the ground, I haven't quite touched it, I see that it's the actual control rod
[52:43] with the servo horn attached to it, hanging in the airship, and of course the right they were on is drooping and that explains why the ailerons were not responding the way they were at the beginning of the flight so i landed it was no issue everything was fine but when i got back yeah i went over and yeah the horn had just popped right off of the servo output arm. That is scary. Or output shaft, rather. So, yeah, that was kind of a wake-up call. So I called it a day.
[53:12] I put the horn back on, but I was like, probably ought to go over every nut and bolt on this thing because I didn't. I acquired this airplane sort of mid-season. Yeah. So I didn't have my beginning of the season go over checks with this airplane like I do all my airplanes. Anyway, so I packaged it up, took it back home. By the way, did I mention last week that I could get both of these airplanes in the car at the same time? You did. Yeah, it's awesome.
[53:37] I don't have to buy a new vehicle now. Well, you still should. Yeah. So I got it home, and I took all the servo arms off the servos and put them back on. And I used what's going to be our tool of the week this week. It's time for RC Plane Lab's Tool of the Week. Loctite. Oh, okay. I'm not normally a fan of Loctite because I do have some horror stories of trying to disassemble things that were assembled with Loctite. But if you use Loctite correctly, it's a wonderful tool. It really is.
[54:14] Yeah, not too much. Yep. There's several different types, right? Okay. So there's, and each label will tell you what its purpose is. Whatever you do, don't put red Loctite, not the red bottle now. I'm talking about the liquid that is red on anything you ever plan on disassembling because it is permanent. And permanent means permanent. Yeah. Like you're going to strip the screw.
[54:41] You're going to cut it apart because you're going to have to because it Yeah. Because you're going to have to, because it will not release. But anyway, I use the blue Loctite. I'm a big fan of the blue Loctite. It comes, at least the stuff I have is in a red tube, but the liquid itself is blue. That's confusing, by the way. It is. Yeah, Loctite could probably do a better job with packaging. Somebody didn't think that through at all. But read the label.
[55:01] Like I said, it will tell you, usually it will tell you what color the actual Loctite liquid is, and it'll tell you what its use is for. I think there's like three or four different strengths of Loctite. So I went over every nut and bolt on the airplane and Loctited all the stuff that was metal to metal, and then I went and flew it again the next, or the day after, and everything was fine. So Loctite, tool of the week. Lesson learned. So, yeah. I like Loctite now.
[55:29] Maybe next time you just need to go over everything before you take it out just to be safe then. Probably not a bad idea. Yeah. That's probably really good advice that I should start using. Hey, that one's free. But, really, until that deal netted me those airplanes, it had been a while since I had bought an airplane, used or new. Yeah. Honestly. Did you go over it, like, at all and look? Well, I did a very general, like, when I,
[56:00] because obviously I had to bind it to my fancy new radio and make sure all the surfaces were going the right directions. And when I do that, I sort of kind of look at everything, but I didn't actually take a wrench to any of the nuts and bolts and check their tightness, which I should have. Yeah, so the screw came out of the servo horn then? The screw came out of the servo shaft, the spline shaft, and then the horn popped off. And so it stayed on the horn?
[56:24] The screw did? Or did you lose the screw? No, the screw was gone. Oh, okay. It was just a two and a half millimeter. I think that's kind of what threw me. Oh, okay. No, the screw came out of the servo output shaft and then the horn popped off, or the arm, excuse me, popped off. Well, heck, it might not have been there to begin with. I mean, maybe. I mean, I would think that I would have seen that during the whole setup process, but maybe not. I mean, it's a possibility.
[56:49] But these are really nice arms. They're the Hanger 9 aluminum ones with the set screws. Oh, yeah. The pinch screws, what I'm saying? Yeah, so it actually holds on. Yeah, so there's actually like the servo output shaft screw holds the arm onto the shaft, and then there's two set screws on the arm itself that squeeze and pinch it onto the so there's technically three screws that hold
[57:11] this thing onto the server and all three of them failed wow yeah that's extremely scary i mean like that should not happen yeah it yeah i was i was taken aback Because those are like fail safes built in, so this doesn't happen, and it still happened. To be fair, those pinch bolts were also loose. They had not been tightened. Hmm. Well. So probably an oversight on the original setup, or obviously an oversight on my part for not checking them,
[57:44] but they're all checked now, and and all is good and it flies beautifully. And they're loctited. They are loctited. Yeah, I guess that's the right way to say it. I guess so. They had loctite applied to them and they are now semi-permanently attached. Hopefully. Awesome. Yeah. Just wanted to mention that, that I didn't mention that last week and I should have, but yeah, tool of the week this week, Loctite. Gets you some metal to metal. It works great. Cool. There you go. Till next time,
[58:15] I'm Ron. And I'm Tom. Good night. Good night. We hope you enjoyed this episode of the RC Plane Lab Podcast. For topic suggestions, to ask questions, or to give any feedback connect with us at rcplanelab.com or email us direct at either ron rcplanelab.com or tom rcplanelab.com you can also text us or leave us a voicemail at 818-351-9846 please Please subscribe, rate, and review us on your favorite podcast app. Until next time, may your landings be gentle.
