Ep 34: We bought a friggin laser! What’s the AMA? And gas vs glow.

[00:00:04] Welcome to RC Plane Lab, a podcast for anyone interested in RC airplane. We'll share tips and tricks on how to build models and talk about successful flights, epic crashes, and everything in between. Visit us at rcplanelab.com to sign up for our email list and to ask us questions. You can also text us or leave us a voicemail at 818-351-9846. Please help us out by rating and reviewing us in your favorite podcast app. Thanks for spending time with us today.

[00:00:34] Now, here are your hosts, Ron and Tom.

[00:00:38] Hello, everyone, and welcome to the RC Plane Lab podcast. I'm Ron. And I'm Tom. Dude, we bought a friggin' laser.

[00:00:44] I know That is so exciting.

[00:00:47] So that’s exactly what I want to talk about to start off today’s episode.

[00:00:51] Well, you have to talk about it first, because it’s the most exciting.

[00:00:53] It is so super cool. So, we talked a lot about trying to do the balsa and all that kind of stuff with the little cheapo laser kind of thing that I had. And we didn't have a lot of luck with it. It kind of worked. Well, it did work-ish. Yeah. if that's all you have, it worked great. But now we have something much better. We have a real laser. We have a CO2 laser. It's awesome. I'm like so excited.

[00:01:22] Like, I've been wanting to buy one of these for a long time, and they were very expensive. Like, for the size that I wanted, they were exorbitantly, or exorbitantly, they were- Easy for you to say. Yeah. They were exorbitantly-

[00:01:37] They were really expensive.

[00:01:38] They were very expensive. Man, I couldn't get that out. Exorbitantly expensive. Yes. So anyway, after you and I kind of did some talking and stuff, there's all these cheap ones, I should say, inexpensive, whatever, small CO2 laser cutters on eBay. $400 gets you, or gets you like a 12-inch by 8-inch cut area. Not nearly big enough for what- Kind of small. Yeah. Not nearly big enough for what we wanted to do. But we thought, let's try it out. Yeah. Let's see what it's like.

[00:02:10] Let’s see how it cuts.

[00:02:11] And it’s freaking cool.

[00:02:12] And it is.

[00:02:13] I’m sorry, but it is so cool.

[00:02:15] It’s the coolest thing I bought for a very long time.

[00:02:18] Yeah.

[00:02:18] I am like-.

[00:02:19] The quality of the parts- Right. That come out of this thing, it just blows me away.

[00:02:26] I know. It really does. And it's fairly quick compared to what we were using before. It's extremely quick. So what I was doing before on my CNC machine with my little janky laser was I would cut five passes to get through balsa. Oh, yes. The JL. Sorry. Janky laser. Yeah, I gotcha. Five passes to get through 8-inch balsa at 17 inches a minute.

[00:02:47] Almost all the way through.

[00:02:48] Almost all the way through. In some cases. Most of the way through on soft stuff and about half of the way through on the hard stuff. Right. Which you unfortunately learned because you wanted all your stuff.

[00:02:57] That was my fault because I wanted to use the hard balsa in those applications. In the wing grip. Yeah.

[00:03:03] And you did, which is fine. But you still had to trim all yours out. And you said you ended up using a jank saw on it. Nice wool saw. Yeah. So after that is when we kind of got serious about looking at different lasers. so like I said, it was five passes, 17 inches a minute. With this new one, I can cut through balsa, one pass, 65 inches a minute.

[00:03:24] It’s incredible.

[00:03:25] So literally, it takes like no time at all to cut what you need. Yeah. Long-term goal for this, however, is going to be tearing it apart, using it for pieces, and making it bigger. Like, I really want something that's no smaller than two foot by four foot.

[00:03:44] Yeah.

[00:03:45] And I’ll be honest, the thought of for me, the thought of taking something like this apart and modifying it to make it suit our needs, I’m not going to say it terrifies me, but it’s so out of what I consider my skill set to be, which is why I feel like I’m so lucky to have you as a friend, because you are so smart when it comes to doing things like that with electronics, and like when you first mentioned that’s what you wanted to do, I will admit my first thought was: well, there’s $400 down the drain.

[00:04:16] But that’s totally not the case.

[00:04:17] I mean, I don’t know how to take that.

[00:04:19] Well, I mean, not that I had any doubt that you could do it or anything, but just taking something like that, that's built a certain way, and then modifying it to suit your needs. It just, I mean, when it comes to electronics, it's so out of my wheelhouse.

[00:04:33] See, this is going to be easier to do than building a CNC machine, because literally the CNC machine was from scrap. I mean, like, I had nothing together. I didn't have any plans. Right. I didn't have any, I really didn't even know what I was doing when I first started doing it.

[00:04:47] So, having gone through several iterations with that building an inexpensive proof of concept machine, going up to a heavier duty gantry, going up to dual motors to drive the Y axis as opposed to just the single one that I started with, by building that up you learn a lot about what you’re doing with it, and especially with the electronics and how to drive it and what it takes for that.

[00:05:11] But so something that size, going through that and figuring that out makes this so much easier.

[00:05:18] Yeah.

[00:05:18] Because to me I mean, like my gantry on my CNC machine is easily probably 120 pounds, if not a little bit more.

[00:05:26] Yeah, folks, it’s, large.

[00:05:29] It's very big, and it's solid steel. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's I-beams, and it's five and a half feet, almost six feet wide on that I-beam, plus the steel that, the risers on it are solid steel U-channel. And that's like a foot wide. So, I mean, this thing is no joke.

[00:05:44] Heavy duty.

[00:05:45] Plus the spindle is very, very heavy, plus, everything that's going back and forth. Compare that to a laser.

[00:05:51] Yeah.

[00:05:51] Where literally the only thing that you have going back and forth on the basic level is a mirror. Yeah.

[00:05:56] Really, tonight was the first time I’ve seen it since you got it.

[00:06:00] It’s beautiful, isn’t it?

[00:06:02] It really is. And it's really, to me, to a, to a dumb old guy looking, looking at something like this for the first time, it actually looks kind of simple.

[00:06:12] It is.

[00:06:13] I mean the whole, the whole moving parts on it. It’s just it’s easy to forget that really all you’re doing is moving mirrors.

[00:06:20] Right. Yeah. I mean, there's not a lot to it. Yeah.

[00:06:22] So,

[00:06:23] That’s why I’m not afraid to make it bigger.

[00:06:25] Yeah. And that's why now I am also not afraid of you tearing this apart and-

[00:06:28] Good.

[00:06:29] …Trying to make it bigger, Because I- even dumb old me- kind of understands what’s going on here.

[00:06:34] And yeah, I don’t really see the harm.

[00:06:37] No, I don’t either.

[00:06:38] In making it bigger.

[00:06:39] So. It's almost like, well, why didn't they just make it bigger?

[00:06:43] I know. I mean, like, that's a question I've asked several times because you look at these machines, they're all over the place for sub $400. Right. They need a little bit of tweaking, a little bit of things that you have to do to them that, I read a lot on them.

[00:06:57] I looked at a lot of, I think I've seen every YouTube video that, that talks about these little lasers and everybody talks about things that are wrong with it when you get it, all the things that have to be done to make it usable. I don't know if we just looked out or if they've got better or, what it is over time. Literally the one we got out of the box, plugged it in. I did not use the software that came with it.

[00:07:23] There's another set of software that I found online that somebody didn't like what came with it and wrote their own program and, gave it away for freeware stuff. And it works awesome. That kills me. Straight out of the box works great. That's awesome. I know. I love it. I mean, right? What else? Yeah. I mean, what else can you say?

[00:07:40] It produces parts that, like I’ve built laser cut kits before.

[00:07:44] Mm-hmm.

[00:07:44] And I mean this thing rivals. I mean honestly, I think the parts that are coming out of this machine are the best parts I’ve seen.

[00:07:53] Well, I think so too.

[00:07:54] I mean, yeah, maybe it's because they're not designed to be mass produced or whatever. Maybe there's some, something that's lost in translation when you're making a kit for hundreds of copies as opposed to, a one-off part or whatever. But, man, the crispness of the parts are what kills me.

[00:08:11] And the speed of which I can make them is so nice, too. I mean, like, it's so, like, I'm super excited about this. I don't want to tear it apart. Like, I'm having too much fun just finding different things you can engrave on or you can print or you can cut or you can do that I'm going to miss it when it's gone while we're working on making it bigger.

[00:08:32] I understand what you're saying. But just think of the capacity. Oh, that's kind of so nice. And speaking of that, like, so back to the question, why don't they make it bigger? Yeah. Maybe it has something to do with the perception of capacity.

[00:08:48] Like, so maybe with the power of the laser that's in that cabinet, maybe they didn't want people using that or trying to use that particular laser setup on something that's a lot thicker, which one would assume you'd be able to handle with a bigger cabinet. Does that make sense?

[00:09:05] Yeah, it’s possible.

[00:09:05] Do what I mean.

[00:09:06] No, I get it.

[00:09:07] So maybe that’s why it’s marketed at this size: to try to prevent the….

[00:09:11] It could be.

[00:09:12] What I’m saying.

[00:09:12] Yeah. And I mean, like, so for what we're doing with it. Yeah.

[00:09:16] All we’re ever going to use is what eighth inch, maybe some quarter inch balsa once in a while.

[00:09:22] Yeah. For that, it works wonderful.

[00:09:24] Yeah.

[00:09:25] Now, I do understand why people have problems with them, but we haven't hit those problems yet because we haven't tried to do anything bigger yet. We haven't tried to do anything thicker. So it does not have a movable Z axis. Right. So that's its major drawback. You only can cut at a certain height. You can't actually raise and lower that up, raise and lower that up to get to the focal point of the laser. Yes.

[00:09:51] It’s always after I drink soda.

[00:09:53] Sorry about that. I heard that. What was I saying? Oh, so…

[00:09:58] Can’t adjust the Z axis.

[00:09:59] Yeah, you can't adjust the Z axis, which is problematic when you're cutting stuff that's three-eighths of an inch thick or something like that. So we will need to do something about the Z axis being able to be adjusted. And I have no problem doing something like that when we build it bigger. The other thing that is problematic with it is it does not have the air assist on it.

[00:10:21] So when you're trying to cut something, there's no air movement around the nozzle to clear off or to clear out any of the smoke that's created. And it creates a lot of smoke. Yeah. So it has a nice extraction-like exhaust fan, and it's by a window in my garage right now. So that goes right out that window, and all the smoke just blows outside. And you still get some inside. I mean, you do. You could smell it a little bit, yeah, when you cut that piece.

[00:10:47] But not nearly as much as what goes outside. I mean, I'm amazed at how much that extractor works for what it is. For what it is, yeah.

[00:10:56] It seems like stuff tends to catch on fire too.

[00:10:59] Well, it burns a little bit, but not like burns.

[00:11:03] That’s true.

[00:11:04] It almost just looks like a candle flame.

[00:11:06] Yeah.

[00:11:06] And it doesn't do that all the time. I don't know what causes it to do that and what causes it not to do that. But putting the error assist nozzle on it eliminates that. They do have… I love people. They do have files that somebody else has designed and uploaded to Thingiverse so I can 3D print one, and you don't have to buy a thing. I just haven't done it yet because I've been kind of busy.

[00:11:28] Well, you’ve been busy playing with it.

[00:11:30] Well, playing with it, yeah. And there have been other things going on, too. I had like a day, really, with that is all I actually got to dedicate to it. But it was a lot of fun, and it's going to be awesome when we actually get it done. It's already awesome. I'm so looking forward to some of the things. So I have cut balsa, eighth-inch balsa, no problem.

[00:11:49] Quarter-inch balsa, we will get no problem once I get that air assist on because in order to get through the balsa, you have to go a little bit slower, and it does catch it on fire. So that's always fun. When, you see the quarter-inch piece of balsa you have down there, like, flaming out everywhere. But like I said…

[00:12:07] Exciting. Well, true. I mean… Probably not so good for finished parts, but certainly fun to watch, I bet.

[00:12:14] Well, it depends if you want them singed. I mean, if you want them singed, it works great.

[00:12:17] Well, singed, yeah. Singed is… Well, I mean, singed can be good or bad, I suppose. Depends on what the finished product is going for.

[00:12:24] Yeah. But we did the… So the eighth-inch balsa is no problem. The falcata… And I wish I could find more information on what this wood is because it's very difficult to find online. So, we talked about before, the falcata wood is the… I think what he told us it was when we went up to our hobby shop.

[00:12:45] That was the word he used.

[00:12:47] Well… Brian did. Maybe we need to call and check just to be sure because I cannot really find anything online listed for what we bought.

[00:12:55] Yeah.

[00:12:55] And what we got was 3 16th inch thick, 4 inches wide, 42 inch long pieces. And it was like two bucks a sheet. Yeah. Which is… Nothing. Awesome.

[00:13:06] For… Like, compare that to balsa.

[00:13:08] And yeah, it's… Half price. It's nearly half, yeah.

[00:13:10] So….

[00:13:11] Or barely half. No, actually, the balsa was almost $4 for a 36 inch piece and this is 42 inches. Yeah. So, yeah, it's… Less than half.

[00:13:20] Less than half. Considerably less than half. Which is awesome. Which is, yeah.

[00:13:23] But anyway, it cuts through that perfectly. Other things I've tried to cut is that Dollar Tree foam board.

[00:13:29] Oh, man, I tell you what.

[00:13:31] I think I'm almost more excited to be able to cut through that kind of stuff than… I lied. That's all super exciting to be able to do. It's all very exciting. But to cut Dollar Tree foam board and be able to make, like, profile foamies and stuff… Yeah….and have it do it for you and no more cutting, it's going to be awesome.

[00:13:49] So much cramping in my hand cutting that stuff.

[00:13:53] Well, and I always hated… And we don't do it often because we don't do a lot with the foam stuff. But the few things that we've done, it's always such a pain to get the corners just sharp and right and all that kind of stuff. This is going to do it for us. We don't ever have to worry about cutting foam again, which is another reason we're going to make it. Make it bigger. Yeah. So I'm super excited to be able to do that kind of stuff, too.

[00:14:14] I mean, think about this for just a second. You could go from concept to proof, to prototypes, to finished product in. I mean the amount of time, just in time, that this thing is going to save.

[00:14:35] Yeah.

[00:14:35] It’s incredible.

[00:14:37] Repeatability is going to be awesome.

[00:14:38] Well, that yeah.

[00:14:39] Just to have one file and then you cut it as many times as you want. Yeah.

[00:14:44] I mean talking about foam. You come up with a design and in 10 minutes you have a flyable example.

[00:14:52] So….

[00:14:52] I mean, that just blows my mind.

[00:14:54] Yeah. So, we talked a while ago about the sandpiper thing I was working on and trying to design. That's gone by the wayside, but I think once we get this back up and going, it's coming back on full. And I'm going to be able to make as many of them as I want, and we're going to be just… There's going to be everywhere. Everybody's going to have one. There you go. It's going to be so much fun. We're going to bring back combat. I want to.

[00:15:14] We’re bringing it back.

[00:15:15] I have no idea. I want to so bad. There are so many things that have gone by the wayside in this hobby that I want to bring back. we talked last weekend, or talked last week about it also, like the landing, how many times you can land in a minute. Yeah, fun flies. Yeah, all that kind of stuff. Oh, it would just be so much fun. And so much more fun with a cheap airplane that you can replace, in five minutes worth of cutting foam on a laser cutter. Yes.

[00:15:39] Oh, so excited. Yeah. So, like I said, we did the falcata on the laser cutter, too, and it cut really nice. So nice. So much so that, well, I decided I'm going to redo my wing. Your dualist wing? My dualist wing is I'm starting from scratch.

[00:15:55] Okay.

[00:15:56] Yeah, and actually I’m almost to the point where I was on the original wing already.

[00:16:02] Well, don’t tear apart the original wing just yet.

[00:16:06] Why.

[00:16:06] Well, I don’t know. I may need it as a backup because of what I did to mine.

[00:16:12] What did you do to yours?

[00:16:13] Well, I accidentally built mine flat.

[00:16:16] You built yours flat? Yeah. Wait, now, hold on a minute. I know. Weren't you giving me heck for building mine flat?

[00:16:23] I did.

[00:16:26] How did you do that?

[00:16:28] Well, so I was so excited to be building a dualist, I laid out my ribs on the top of the main spar and I was. You want to answer that?

[00:16:40] No, I'm good. Sorry, everybody.

[00:16:42] It's okay. So, I had my cool tool of the week builder square or triangle out there, setting all my ribs at 90 degrees and just going to town, gluing them down, and I just completely forgot to set the dihedral on the root rib on both panels.

[00:17:01] Even after you got after me for not building it correctly, although you did tell me it would be okay with an electric

[00:17:08] I did.

[00:17:09] But that it needs the whole dihedral thing. Whatever for that one.

[00:17:13] Yeah. So, fortunately, I realized my mistake before I actually glued the top spar on.

[00:17:18] Well, that’s good, because it’ll be. You can shorten up.

[00:17:20] Because I can shorten up, but I decided, what? I told Ron that it'll be okay flat, and I'm going to prove it. So, I went ahead and left them flat.

[00:17:30] How ironic is that? I know. That you walk in here tonight.

[00:17:33] Yes, I know.

[00:17:34] And I now have a tapered wing. Or a dihedral wing.

[00:17:37] Yeah, I could have said nothing, and, nobody would have been the wiser. But I'm admitting to you that I did give you a hard time about building yours flat, and then I did the exact same thing.

[00:17:49] Yeah, you even went off on me on. Well, it says on there the wing rib template kind of thing, and oh, that is.

[00:17:55] Well, it’s because I didn’t have a rib template cut out for me in laser form that I didn’t use one.

[00:18:02] I don’t want to hear that, because that thing I printed out for you where I drew everything like separate, had that on there.

[00:18:09] It did, but the stack of wing ribs that you gave me didn’t have it cut into there, so

[00:18:14] I just… Oh, personal responsibility. It's not your fault. It's not your fault. It's my fault.

[00:18:19] I’m the one that…. But I am going to prove it that it will fly just fine with a flat wing.

[00:18:23] So the funny thing is, though, when we went out in the garage and I was cutting, like the only file I had ready to cut was a wing rib, wing rib number eight, actually. Yes. And so I cut that out and stuff, and you're like, oh, that almost makes me want to redo my wing.

[00:18:40] They look so nice.

[00:18:42] Oh my gosh. And then you walk downstairs, and you didn't even notice. I didn't. You didn't notice.

[00:18:47] I thought you had put your old wing back in the jig to repair it, and I, just as I walked down here, I kind of glanced at it, saw your wing in the adjuster jig and I thought, oh okay, well, he put it back in there to make sure it was still in alignment while he did his repair. And that was, honestly, that was as far as I thought. And then I went to the fridge to get myself a drink.

[00:19:09] Which, a couple feet away from the fridge is my other wing literally standing up. Do you see it now?

[00:19:14] No, I see it now yeah.

[00:19:16] You almost kicked it when you went over there, then. That's how close it was. That's funny. Didn't even notice.

[00:19:21] Yeah, I didn’t even yeah. Now that you mention it, I’m looking at it. I’m like: oh yeah, what a ding-dong I am.

[00:19:27] Yeah, that’s obvious.

[00:19:28] Didn’t even see it.

[00:19:29] That's obvious. It's right there. I mean, it's right.

[00:19:31] Well, your new wing looks fantastic.

[00:19:32] It does look a lot better than the old wing, especially with all the glue joints, and it looks really bad because of the super glue. But you'll be proud of me. The new wing I'm putting together with, mostly, because I did get a little bit, what's what I'm looking for? I got a little bit antsy and wanted to get it done a little faster, so I used CA for most of it, or for some of it, but most of it's put together with wood glue.

[00:19:55] Thank you. Yeah. I appreciate that.

[00:19:57] You should.

[00:19:58] And I’m not anti. I don’t want anyone to get the wrong impression. I’m not anti-CA. I mean CA glue is fantastic when used for its intended purpose.

[00:20:09] Yeah. Well, like, really, it wasn't any more difficult to build with the wood glue than it was with CA. The only difference is you test fit the piece first, then you take it out, and you put the wood glue in, and you put the spar back in.

[00:20:27] And if you’re using medium CA, that’s exactly the same process.

[00:20:30] Oh, is it really? Normally, yeah. I've never used medium CA. I've always used thin. Oh.

[00:20:34] Well, if you’re using medium CA, it’s the same. I mean, you can use it like thin if you want to, but it doesn’t soak in like as well.

[00:20:42] It doesn't wick in as much. Yeah.

[00:20:43] So, whoops, sorry about that. But, yeah, medium CA, you use it kind of in the same manner. You just don't have to clamp it down as long.

[00:20:51] Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. But, yeah, so I still have some of the pins in there. I got to pull them out. It's good.

[00:20:58] Well, what I was referring to, like, it looks fantastic. With the cool laser-cut ribs.

[00:21:04] Yeah.

[00:21:04] With the lightning holes. The lightning holes. Oh, it looks so awesome. I wish… You need to post some pictures of this thing.

[00:21:11] Yeah, I’ve taken pictures. I’ve been going through.

[00:21:13] Which I have a couple of pictures for you too.

[00:21:15] But you… So, it's like the same lightning holes, pretty much. Not exactly as what I did in your wing. The only difference is, I didn't have to get a jigsaw out to finish it. And it was really quick. Oh, yeah. I'm sure. All the wing ribs were cut within 20-ish minutes, maybe.

[00:21:33] If I hadn’t done such a good job of putting my wing together- aside from the fact that I’m messed up the root angle- I would be seriously tempted to start over on.

[00:21:43] My wing as well with these new ribs.

[00:21:46] They look so fantastic.

[00:21:47] I kind of think you should.

[00:21:48] I mean, granted, they’re going to be covered up because I’m fully sheeting my wing.

[00:21:52] Right. But still, man. I still think you ought to. And the only reason I say that, like, honestly, first off, those ribs that you worked on, that I cut before, you had to sand them and get them to fit. And some were short. You had to kind of put the spacers in and stuff. That would bug me more than a cracked rib that I glued. Like, I don't know why. That would just bug me more, to know that's inside.

[00:22:18] That doesn’t bother me.

[00:22:19] Oh. Well, I'd still redo it, obviously, because I already…

[00:22:22] I mean, I’ve done a good job. The wing is solid.

[00:22:25] Yeah.

[00:22:26] My wing is solid.

[00:22:27] Right.

[00:22:27] It’s just it would look so much better like that. Looking at your….

[00:22:33] With dihedral. I mean, do you think that's going to make much of a difference? I really don't. But you're supposed to be building it to plan. That was the whole thing. You're building to plan. I'm not.

[00:22:45] So here’s the secret.

[00:22:46] Yet ironically enough….

[00:22:47] I can still correct it.

[00:22:49] Do you think you're going to? I mean, like, have you… Ouch. Like, have you thought about that? I just hit the wall.

[00:22:55] No. No, you're not going to? Just now, I thought about, how I could… And I could still correct it. There's enough thickness. Actually, it would be super easy to correct it, to be honest. All I would have to do would be to cut another root rib, right? And then, make it out of quarter inch or whatever, and just sand a taper on both sides to match the angle.

[00:23:20] Glue that in the middle. Glue my panels to that.

[00:23:22] And then reinforce that joint with fiberglass tape, which was going to happen anyway.

[00:23:28] Yeah. You're going to show me how to do the fiberglass tape thing, because I've never done that before.

[00:23:31] Oh, it’s easy.

[00:23:32] Well, I know, but I’ve never done it, so….

[00:23:34] So, I could correct mine if I wanted to, and it would still be to plan. The parts would be different, but it would still be to plan. I would still have the correct dihedral, and just the parts would be a little different. That's all.

[00:23:46] Nobody would ever know. No, they wouldn't. Except for me and you. Except for… And our five listeners. I round up, you round down. Anyway. Yeah, so that… I don't know. I would start over.

[00:24:01] But you do you, boo. If I wasn't so far along, I would.

[00:24:06] Yeah.

[00:24:06] But I’ve already sheeted the tops of my wings, which means that’s 12 sheets of 332×6 by 4-inch.

[00:24:12] balsa, which is really expensive right now. I got you on that one. I forgot you had that much done. Yeah. So, that changes my mind a little bit. Yeah. If I had any of that on, I probably would not have started over. But I knew I still had the sheets made.

[00:24:25] Yeah.

[00:24:26] Just not assembled yet. Yeah, you hadn't. So… Right. Or just not glued onto the wing, so I was not all that worried about it. But, plus, I think I'm going to change, like, I think I'm going to change how I'm mounting the servos. Okay. I'm going to do that just a little bit differently than what I had originally planned.

[00:24:41] And also, the thing that really bothered me about the wing I was building before, I didn't think when I cut it to put any holes in to run the electronics, to run any of the wires through. So, I programmed it into the new one now. So, we're pretty good on that. Yeah. So, that'll make it easier when it comes to actually putting everything together.

[00:25:01] Okay.

[00:25:02] Oh, you got a noisy throat today.

[00:25:04] Yeah, I don't know. It's one of those things. I don't know what that is.

[00:25:09] I don't know, but it makes me laugh every time. Oh. Yeah, I don't know what that is.

[00:25:16] It’s a funny noise though.

[00:25:17] So, but yeah, so that's where I am on the do list. And I did get all of my formers cut on the CNC machine. Not on CNC. I'm so used to saying CNC. On the laser, which sounds cooler than CNC. It does sound cooler. So, I got all those cut on the laser, and that's ready to go as soon as I'm done with the jig here for the wing. Nice. So, that'll be exciting, too.

[00:25:39] So the formers that you cut, are they like the ones you showed me?

[00:25:42] Yeah, but instead of a quarter-inch inset, I did 3A's. And I cleaned them up a little bit to make it look a little bit nicer and all that stuff to where everything is uniform now. Like, the spacing and stuff is uniform, and so there's a thickness on everything on the inside. Cool. So, and I corrected the numbers on them, because I had the wrong numbers for the former numbers. Yeah. I don't know what I was thinking. I made a mistake on that one.

[00:26:04] That’s okay.

[00:26:05] And actually when I was looking at them I might have still messed one of them up. I don’t know. I’ve got to look at the plans.

[00:26:11] Well, as long as you match them up to the plan before you glue them in place, you’ll be fine.

[00:26:15] Yeah.

[00:26:15] It doesn’t matter what number’s on them.

[00:26:17] Something else. When I laid out this wing on this jig, last time, when I did it, I mean, like, it took me forever to figure out how to properly space the wing spar, or the wing… Gosh, I always do that.

[00:26:29] Yeah, you always call a rib a spar.

[00:26:31] I do, I don’t know why. Maybe we should all just know that when I say spar, that’s what I mean.

[00:26:35] Until you mean spar.

[00:26:36] Then I'll say the square thingy. No, but anyway, so with the wing rib spacing, I made it so much harder the first time. Like, I tried to measure it out and then figure out how far apart it's supposed to be. I don't know what I was doing that time, but when I measured it this time, they're three inches spacing, three inches apart. But I was, like, measuring the inside to inside, and I was just having such a problem figuring that out the first time. No, it's just three inches.

[00:27:08] It's just three inches. But don't measure the inside. You measure, the right side on one to the right side of the next one, and that's three inch spacing. Yeah.

[00:27:18] Outside to outside, to outside, to outside to outside, and so on and so forth.

[00:27:20] Whereas, like, if you actually measure the plan- and I think that’s what I had the problem with- they are off just a little bit.

[00:27:26] Well, it's because the plans are off a little. Yeah. One wing is longer than the other, and so on and so forth.

[00:27:31] Well, and that's not on mine now, because I measured the same and did it the right way. But, yeah, there's a couple of them where it was almost like a quarter inch off, and that's what I think gives you that weird spacing on that plan. And that's actually probably what makes it, so, like, the leading edge, or the trailing edge more so than the leading edge, isn't quite straight line all the way down, and I think that's probably because of that, too. Probably why, yeah.

[00:27:55] Okay, that makes sense.

[00:27:56] Yep.

[00:27:56] Well, if they’re even spacing, then that should make in the CAD file. It should make it that much easier to line up all the trailing and leading edges right.

[00:28:05] It should. Yeah, because you should theoretically be able to draw a straight line over the course

[00:28:10] Of that.

[00:28:10] But I already cut mine, so I don't care if I do it again. Well, yeah, and you've already got it glued together, so it looks great. Yeah, that's going to be good. So, yeah, so that's my Duelist update. I don't think I have anything else to say on that.

[00:28:22] No and yeah. So I’ve admitted to the world that I built mine flat, even after giving you a hard time for doing the same.

[00:28:29] Oh, that makes me so happy.

[00:28:31] I may or may not correct it, so we’ll see.

[00:28:33] I mean, we’re going to get you off that pedestal.

[00:28:37] Hey, I don’t put myself on the pitch.

[00:28:39] No, no, you don't. It's somebody else that does. I agree. Not me, so. Not me. Not me either.

[00:28:43] Yeah, so let's move on to the next topic. We've beat the Duelists to death here. I wanted to talk about the AMA, because I noticed AMA is short for Academy of Model Aeronautics, and that is the organization that sort of promotes the hobby in more ways than one. I noticed that on a lot of our listeners' survey submissions, some listeners, indicated that they were not AMA members.

[00:29:10] Which, take a pause there for a second. If you have not filled out our listener survey, please, please go to the website and fill it out. It's very handy for us to know kind of where we should focus our efforts for the podcast to where we can cover what you guys want to hear about and not waste our time covering things that you don't want to hear about.

[00:29:33] I know roughly how many listeners we have, and I know roughly how many surveys we've received, and I'm not going to be happy until those numbers match. So come on. If you have not filled it out, please help us out. Help yourself out. Go fill it out. Sign up for our email list, and we'll all be much happier when you do that.

[00:29:53] And it really does help you out as a listener, because if you indicate to us that you want to hear something, there’s a very good chance that we’ll talk about it on a future podcast.

[00:30:05] Fairly soon, because we’re- I’ll be honest, we’re running out of ideas.

[00:30:10] Yeah, I don’t know if you’ve noticed, the past couple of episodes have been kind of thin, but that’s okay.

[00:30:14] It happens.

[00:30:15] But anyway.

[00:30:16] We need your help. Anyway.

[00:30:18] So yeah, fill out the surveys if you haven't. But I did notice that on the last time I looked at our survey submissions, there were a few members or a few folks that had indicated that they were not AMA members, and that's fine. Hold on. Sorry.

[00:30:31] No, you're right. But I also want to clarify, this is United States only, correct?

[00:30:36] Yeah.

[00:30:36] Right. Okay. So we have received survey responses from literally like all around the world, which is awesome, by the way. Which is fantastic. But this does not apply to those who are not part of the United States. Right. And I don't know if they have their own like AMA type things in different countries.

[00:30:54] If they do, they should let us know. Yeah. Good idea. Because the more informed we are, the better we can inform everyone else. So yeah, I did pay attention to our survey and the ones who indicated that they were in the U.S., but not members of the AMA.

[00:31:09] I gotcha, I will not interrupt again. I’m sorry.

[00:31:11] It’s okay.

[00:31:12] Oh, by the way.

[00:31:12] No, I'm just kidding. So let me just start by saying, I don't work for the AMA. I don't receive kickbacks for getting people to join. I just think it's a very worthwhile, even if all you do is fly foamies at the park, there is an AMA membership for you. They cover every aspect of the hobby, of the RC airplane hobby, I should say. and the reason, the reason that I am such a huge, proponent of the AMA is for what they, what they provide to their members.

[00:31:46] I mean the. It’s a fairly long list, the most important of which is insurance. You have an accident, or you hit somebody or, worst case scenario, something bad happens with your airplane.

[00:32:01] So like, let's just say you're flying in a Walmart parking lot.

[00:32:05] No, not in a Walmart because that is not an AMA sanctioned flying site.

[00:32:10] Okay. I was just going for clarification. So if you're flying in a Walmart parking lot and you hit somebody's car. I was getting to that. Oh, sorry.

[00:32:15] That's okay. Well, go ahead. No. I like where you're going with that.

[00:32:18] So that’s not covered.

[00:32:19] No.

[00:32:20] That's not. Oh, no. So don't do that.

[00:32:23] Yeah. You have to be flying from an AMA sanctioned field and there are literally thousands. Like if you get on the AMA's website, there's a listing of AMA chartered. It's literally, it's thousands in the, in the, in the U S, which is awesome. Considerable.

[00:32:38] Yeah, that’s good.

[00:32:39] So chances are there's, there's probably an AMA sanctioned field nearby. And even if there's not, if you're just a park flyer, there are hundreds of thousands of acceptable places to fly a park flyer. And there's definitions of park flyer and you can get those definitions on their website. I don't have them memorized because I'm not a park flyer, but,.

[00:32:58] But you're covered under park flyer rules when you have the higher, or the higher membership. Right.

[00:33:04] So if you're a full membership, you get the park flyer rules plus the full AMA, coverage park flyer. So just throw some numbers out there. A full, if you're a full member, AMA, you get, I'm going to refer to my notes here. you get two, and this is crazy to me. You get two and a half million dollars worth of personal liability coverage. Now, granted, this is over and above what your own personal insurance does or does not pay out on an accident.

[00:33:36] So let’s say you’re flying at your club field, your airplane takes off, you lose control, flies over a neighborhood and flies through a couple of people’s windows, three different houses, and causes $5 million worth of damage.

[00:33:49] Well, that’s a very nice housing subdivision that we are flying around.

[00:33:54] Well, we have some nice places in Springfield. the, so you'll get up to two and a half million on top of whatever your own liability coverage doesn't cover. So that's significant.

[00:34:05] Okay.

[00:34:06] Not too much. Yeah.

[00:34:07] That’s a lot really.

[00:34:08] Yeah. And that comes only with the full membership, but even the park flyer membership, it's, I think it's 25,000, which is still considerable.

[00:34:15] Should be enough to cover you. You would think. At a park running into a car or something like that.

[00:34:20] I mean a park flyer, I think. I think the limit is up to two pounds.

[00:34:24] I think it’s. I think it’s not enough to do a lot of damage. No, no.

[00:34:26] I mean you’re not going to. I mean I can’t imagine you causing $25,000 worth of damage.

[00:34:31] With a one and a half pound foamy or whatever.

[00:34:35] But anyway, that, that, that is the, that number one reason you should join the AMA. number two reason is, they sanction club fields, right? So they provide guidance to club fields, so that they can, the field itself also qualifies for, I forget the figure. It's huge, liability.

[00:35:00] So somebody comes on a flying field as a, as a guest or whatever. You’re having a fly in. Maybe you’ve got people showing up that you want to show the hobby and get them in and somebody twists an ankle or whatever. Whatever the property owner, in this case, whatever their insurance doesn’t cover the AMA ponies up the breast, which that’s could be significant as well. I don’t know if you’ve ever been sued by somebody that’s gotten injured on your property.

[00:35:23] I haven’t, but I know people who have and it gets pretty ugly.

[00:35:26] Yeah, I have not either. So maybe it's, maybe it's time for you to go home.

[00:35:31] Well, you have AMA, so you’re. Well, this is not an AMA chartered field, so we can’t fly here anymore.

[00:35:36] So now how does that work though? Like coverage for personal properties and that kind of stuff?

[00:35:42] Give me an example.

[00:35:44] I’m flying out back and I hit a car period. I mean, I don’t know like.

[00:35:50] So unfortunately the AMA doesn't, it only covers you if you're flying from an AMA sanctioned or an AMA chartered field. And in the case of a park flyer that there are certain, parameters where you're flying from that will be covered. So your example, we're flying out here at your house and we fly the, we attempt to fly the Telemaster from your field, it gets away from us and, and crashes through your neighbor's roof.

[00:36:19] That's going to be your own personal liability insurance. That's going to have to cover that, not AMA because you're not flying from an AMA sanctioned field.

[00:36:25] Well, this coverage sounds a little bit worse as we caught or start talking about it.

[00:36:29] But yeah, but I mean so here at your place we’re we’re fairly limited anyway by what we can fly off of your property.

[00:36:36] No, I understand. So I mean, I get that.

[00:36:39] The bigger airplanes that we want to fly or that I want to fly. I’m probably not going to even attempt to fly unless I’m at the chartered field anyway.

[00:36:45] I wouldn’t either.

[00:36:46] So, and to be honest, I like flying with other like-minded people. So sometimes it gets boring flying by myself. So I want to go and make fun of somebody else and have them make fun of me or whatever. And you can do that at an AMA chartered field all while getting, covered under their insurance policy.

[00:37:04] Okay.

[00:37:05] Which I think is worth it.

[00:37:06] Yeah.

[00:37:06] Just for the, I think it's, I think it works out to like seven or $8 a month. It's 75 bucks a year, right?

[00:37:13] Yeah, I’m not going to do the math, but yeah, it’s not much.

[00:37:16] Yeah, I mean, even if it was 10 bucks a month, what’s? I probably got $10 worth of change of my car.

[00:37:22] Wow. Maybe. You need to clean that out. I guess I should go buy some cheeseburgers or something.

[00:37:27] There you go. But, but anyway, for, just for the insurance, just to have that kind of peace of mind, that's worth it to me. But in addition to that, like I said, they support, they, they support our hobby and they do that like in Congress, they, they lobby for our, I don't want to say rights because they're really not rights. we don't have the right to fly our model airplanes. It's really, it's really kind of privilege. Privilege.

[00:37:55] So really kind of, we have this privilege that we can fly our model airplanes here. And so far the FAA has kind of left us alone up to the, the last few years.

[00:38:09] Up to now. Yeah.

[00:38:09] The last few years have gotten kind of dicey. And the one, the biggest organization that's fighting for us to keep those privileges is the AMA. And they do that. I mean, it's expensive, right? Lobbying is expensive.

[00:38:22] Right.

[00:38:23] It takes lots and lots of money, which is what we provide them. And they, they also, do donations and things like that from some of the organizations, some of the manufacturers will, will donate to the AMA to help, lobby for the

[00:38:36] Hobby. Help offset the cost. Lobby for the hobby. I like that.

[00:38:40] There you go. So, but, but they're our biggest supporters in Congress. And, and I think you could probably credit the AMA for staving off anything that the FAA has really pushed. I mean, if you, if you look at history, not history, but if you look over the last couple of years and what the FAA has tried to do, it's been fairly extreme.

[00:39:00] Yeah. And they're still trying.

[00:39:02] They are. But, but I feel like the successes that we've had in Congress have been largely due to what FAA has done on our behalf. So. AMA. I'm sorry, the AMA. Yes. What they have done on our behalf.

[00:39:14] So that's, that's another good reason to join the AMA that, to know that your, your dues, your, your membership dues are going for that, for that representation, in the, in the Capitol, to, to try to keep our, to try to keep our hobby the way it should be.

[00:39:34] Accessible to everybody.

[00:39:35] Yeah. so, but, so that's number two. Go ahead.

[00:39:39] Now do? Is the AMA a not-for-profit?

[00:39:43] I would say no. Okay. Because they, they operate, which was, I was going to get to, they operate a, that's okay. They operate a hall of fame, right? So they, they induct members into the hall of fame and they recognize they, they actually have a scholarship program for students, that they, that they, I think that's up to $40,000 a year total now. but they, they do scholarships.

[00:40:06] I think it’s one of those where you have to write a essay and then they judge them, or

[00:40:09] Whatever?

[00:40:10] They, so they, they do operate, I think on a profit. They do have a staff or faculty, that they, that they, pay salaries to. I don't know what they're…

[00:40:22] Well, you can still pay salaries and not-for-profits.

[00:40:23] Well, that's true. That's true. maybe they are not for, I don't know. It probably says on their, on their website. but it's a, it's a fairly large organization. And, what you get for that, that small do or dues, is, is huge. something else that's cool that you get, you get that cool monthly or bi-monthly magazine, Model Aviation.

[00:40:48] I don't know if you guys have read that or not, but it's a pretty good, it's a pretty good magazine. There's reviews in there. They do, there's an event calendar in there that you can read, about, about what events are going on in your regions, what your region is doing, for the hobby. there's, there, there's build articles in there.

[00:41:07] I mean there’s, there’s lots of good stuff in the magazine just in itself to include what, what your region is doing for you as a hobbyist.

[00:41:16] So I just did a quick Google search and the Academy of Model Aeronautics based in Muncie, Indiana is a nonprofit organization dedicated to the promotion of model aviation as a recognized sport, as well as recreational activity. There you go. So yes, it's not for profit.

[00:41:30] So there you go, but it is a big organization.

[00:41:34] Yeah.

[00:41:34] Like I said, they have a hall of fame, Clarence Lee's inducted it, one of my heroes. one of these days we need to go there. I feel like we should go to Muncie.

[00:41:44] Yeah, it's actually close. Yeah. I mean, really it's five or six hours away maybe at most. Yeah. I don't even think it's that far. So less than five or six hours away at most.

[00:41:53] Yeah. Yeah. Something like that.

[00:41:54] There you go.

[00:41:55] But anyway, they also offer services to flying sites, like how to set up a flying site. they have in the past offered assistance finding a flying site. So if you're a modeler in the middle of nowhere and there's no flying sites near you, the AMA can help you establish a flying site. they can give you all the.

[00:42:15] That's nice. Yeah.

[00:42:16] They can give you all the parameters you need to, you need to have at a flying site. They can help you find an actual site. they do coordination, I believe with, airspace. So, they can find you a site that, maximizes your, your available airspace. So it doesn't interfere with commercial airspace. I mean, they, they provide a lot of service. So it's a worthwhile organization.

[00:42:38] I think it’s. It’s fairly inexpensive when you, when you kind of can add up what you actually get out of that.

[00:42:45] Yeah.

[00:42:46] And you, you kind of join a community. When you, when you become a membership, I feel like- and I’ve been a member for a long time-

[00:42:55] Since it began.

[00:42:57] Well, no, cause my number, my AMA number is fairly long. It's still six digits.

[00:43:02] Yeah, but it's zero, zero, zero, zero, seven. No, no, no.

[00:43:06] So, but anyway, it's a worthwhile organization. If you, if you haven't joined, I encourage you to, even if it's just a park flyer, if you're flying foamies in a park, $38 a year, I think is what the park flyer membership is. totally worth it. You get the same benefits. It's just, the amounts are a little bit different.

[00:43:25] And then you're limited to the size of plane. Right. You said two pounds or under.

[00:43:29] I think it's, don't quote me. It's on their website, but I think it's up to two pounds, I think. Okay.

[00:43:34] At any rate, there's a lot of, of park flyers, obviously that come in under that weight. So you'll be fine if that's all you fly. Yeah. I don't know what that amounts to in grams.

[00:43:45] It seems like every time everything is, everything is advertised in metric these days.

[00:43:51] So, well, I mean, it kind of makes sense. I mean, I hate to say it cause I like pounds. I like inches. I like all that stuff, but yeah, you do that base 10 system. It just makes so much more sense. Oh yeah. Yeah.

[00:44:05] I agree.

[00:44:06] Anyway.

[00:44:07] So yeah, that's my spiel on the AMA. join if you haven't, it's worth it. But even if you, even if you don't, that's fine too. We, we appreciate all of our listeners and fill out those surveys. If you haven't filled out a survey yet, just like Ron said, if you wouldn't mind, it helps us help you.

[00:44:24] Yeah. So that's my whole takeaway from this whole conversation is go fill out a survey. That's all I know.

[00:44:29] Well, cause you're already an AMA member, right? I am. So yeah, this is all kind of old news to you.

[00:44:34] Well, I mean, I don't know. I think I don't really pay attention to what you get with the AMA, because it's, it's more that in order to fly at our field, you have to be a member. Yeah. Well, that's true. I mean, so that's really the only reason I've joined to be honest. Like I, if it wasn't for flying bigger planes at the field and it was just the stuff I did around here, which is the smaller electrics and all that, I don't think I would spend the money on it.

[00:44:58] And maybe I should, I mean, I've never really looked into what all they offer or what they do, to make me really consider that. Yeah. But, yeah. So that's just where I stand on it.

[00:45:09] Well, I mean, the website is full of information. If you have questions about the AMA, they can probably be answered right there on their website. And if not, they have a live online chat.

[00:45:18] Oh, that’s cool.

[00:45:19] Kind of like Horizon does, I believe.

[00:45:21] Oh, actually. Yeah. I had to use that before to find my AMA number, I think, or my renewal or something. I don't remember what it was, but I had to talk to them that way. Yeah. So, and they're actually, I think I emailed them too. And they're very, very responsive with emails. Yeah. So it's handy.

[00:45:36] Great organization. Join if you can. And if you can't, that's, that's fine too. But I just thought it would be worth talking about it since I did notice that some of our USA members or listeners that filled out the survey indicated they were not members. So, there you go. Cool. Be a member. I mean, if you can.

[00:45:53] Okay.

[00:45:54] Oh, do you want to talk about this email?

[00:45:56] Yeah. Go ahead and read one.

[00:45:58] So, yeah, one of our frequent contacts through the website this time, but he's also emailed us, James, thanks for contacting us again. He did have a question. He thought it'd be a good idea to talk about gas versus nitro, which we really kind of haven't covered except just with what the differences are.

[00:46:18] Yeah.

[00:46:18] But we didn't really talk at great length about the advantages of one over the other. And I'll be honest, like initially, like when I'm in my head, I'm comparing gas versus nitro. And I got to be honest, I'm a nitro guy and I don't see a lot of disadvantages with gas. I really don't.

[00:46:40] Oh yeah, I don’t see any disadvantages with gas.

[00:46:44] So for the same size displacement, the only disadvantage I could come up with- and this is pretty lame, I’ll be honest- the only disadvantage I could come up with is that the same size displacement produces less power on a gas.

[00:46:58] Okay.

[00:46:59] And that’s really it. I mean, they’re super, super convenient, right.

[00:47:03] They are very, very convenient.

[00:47:04] You can go to the pump and get and even if you bought premium gas and put a little bit of oil in, it’s a quarter of the price of nitro fuel.

[00:47:13] A quarter to half. Much less than that.

[00:47:16] So well….

[00:47:17] Like gas right now, I filled up today, it was $2.25 where we are. Okay. And I think if I went up to the fully highest stuff, it was maybe $2.75. Okay. So $2.75 a gallon. And then you add your oil. And that's not more than at most a dollar. I mean, like the Redline stuff I buy…

[00:47:36] Oh, for a gallon, you mean? No. Because Redline oil in that little quart container is quite pricey.

[00:47:41] It’s $8.. I think last time I got it was $8..

[00:47:45] For a quart, right. And then you have to dilute that down for a gallon.

[00:47:47] No, this was less than a quart, I think. I don't remember what it was. It could have been.

[00:47:51] It’s pricey.

[00:47:52] Yeah. But when you're putting… I'm talking about what you put into a gallon of gas.

[00:47:56] It's no more than a dollar. Maybe a buck. Yeah, okay.

[00:47:57] And even if it is. So we're… $3.75. Okay, $4. We'll round up $4 a gallon. I'll give you $4, okay? $4 a gallon. Okay. Last time I bought gas or bought Glow Fuel was $32.99.

[00:48:09] Well, that’s because you bought it somewhere that you shouldn’t have.

[00:48:13] So… Well, that's fine, but that's still… Mine was $26. Okay, well, with mine, I'm still saying that's almost 10 times as much. Yeah.

[00:48:20] But… So there's another advantage for gas. It's much more economical to run.

[00:48:26] Like, I don't mind flying bigger airplanes because you don't burn nearly as much fuel. So the Telemaster was, which we haven't done anything with Telemaster, by the way, but the Telemaster was nitro for a little bit, and we went through a lot of fuel testing and doing all that. We probably burnt, what do you think, half a gallon? Easy. Easy? Yeah.

[00:48:48] Half a gallon just going through trying to get, what, the seven minutes of flight time that we got out of it and tuning and all that stuff between… I mean, really? No, no, you're right. So that amount of flying was $15.

[00:48:59] $12.50..

[00:49:00] Give or take. Yeah. So the same amount of flying on the gas engine would have been like a dollar. True. Two bucks, maybe. Yes. So I love gas as opposed to nitro. However… However what?

[00:49:16] In my opinion. Yeah, that’s really all I got. I mean really….

[00:49:23] You’re not fighting for nitro.

[00:49:24] No, I mean, and I’m a nitro guy and I still, and I will still fly nitros as….

[00:49:32] Until the day I die.

[00:49:34] Well, I mean, for 40 size airplanes and 60 size airplanes, they just have not made a gas engine yet that really kind of fits that application. Do what I mean?

[00:49:44] No, I get it. And so, like, honestly, for me, airplanes that size don't burn enough to where you're going through a ton of fuel. like…

[00:49:54] No, yeah, you’re right.

[00:49:55] If that's all you're flying, you can get through a eight-ounce tank will last you 20 minutes, something like that. Maybe even a little bit more depending on how you're flying. Right. And that's plenty, to get you through for quite a while. Sure. So, you're not burning half a gallon in a day. You're not burning that much when you're flying. Right. But, like, with that 70… Or, no, what was on the Telemaster? 90? What did we get to on the…

[00:50:19] It was… The biggest one was a 91.

[00:50:22] That… I mean, that drank it. It was thirsty. Very, very fast. Yes. And that would get expensive. A full day of flying, that would get very… I mean, you'd go through a gallon easily.

[00:50:30] Easily.

[00:50:31] So… Yes. That's why… Yeah. And I guess we're making the same point. Gas… Yeah, I'm not fighting.

[00:50:36] I’m not arguing with you because I… That’s absolutely accurate.

[00:50:40] So, downfalls. Let's look. There are a couple downfalls with gasoline. You have another battery that you have to charge. Yes. And that can be… I don't want to say problematic, but it's another step. Another thing you have to do before you go fly. Right. You have an ignition that you have to wire. And you're going to have to find a way to turn that off with your… With your transmitter.

[00:51:04] Yeah, that’s it. I mean that’s….

[00:51:06] It's not that difficult. No. But those are a couple more things to consider. Yeah. Between nitro and gasoline.

[00:51:13] A nitro… a nitro engine of the same… Let's not go with displacement. Let's go with power. Right? A nitro engine is going to weigh considerably less.

[00:51:23] Yeah, because you don't have the extra battery weight. Battery and the ignition.

[00:51:26] And an ignition is much harder to troubleshoot than anything on a nitro motor. I think I have proven that.

[00:51:35] The fact that you can't figure it out. Yeah, that's proof positive. Right. No, and I understand that. But still, the grand scheme of things…

[00:51:45] I do not disagree at all.

[00:51:46] Even if you have to replace an ignition every year on an airplane that you fly off in, it's going to be cheaper. You're still… Yeah. You're saving a lot of money.

[00:51:54] Yep.

[00:51:55] And they’re just so much cleaner.

[00:51:57] They are.

[00:51:57] I mean, you don’t have….

[00:51:58] Less mess on the airplane.

[00:51:59] Yeah. It's just… Oh, it's so much nicer.

[00:52:02] It’s been my limited experience that the needles on the carburetors are a little bit less… Like, for instance, once you get that sweet spot set….

[00:52:13] On a gasser.

[00:52:14] On a gasoline engine, usually you don't really have to mess with it too much. Once it's set, great changes in temperature don't seem to affect it as much as it does a nitro. Probably because you're not moving the volume of fuel that you are on a nitro.

[00:52:29] Yeah, so nitro will use more fuel too. Like, same displacement will use more fuel going through it. Oh, absolutely. Not necessarily that it's cheaper, like with gasoline, but you're using less fuel with gasoline too.

[00:52:42] Yes, absolutely.

[00:52:43] So, I mean, think about when you run your weed eater outside, how long does the tank of gas on that last? Lasts a good long time. And that's… I mean, that's the same… Pretty much the same size tank as like we would have in a Telemaster that's on one of my weed eaters.

[00:52:56] Yeah, probably.

[00:52:57] I mean, the way it wraps around, it's going to be about the same size and that lasts a long time. So, very worthwhile going to gas engines. Now, they're like the gasoline ones. They are a little bit more expensive though, right?

[00:53:10] Well, I mean, are they though? These days… I don't know. You can get, let's use a DLE 20, for example, which is a good replacement for a 60 to 75 two-stroke. You can get a DLE 20 nowadays, brand new in the box for, I think, 289, 279, somewhere in that range. Granted, you can find a Chinese, 60 to a 92 stroke for 109 to 129, maybe somewhere in that range. So, they're getting… The gap is closing, if that makes sense.

[00:53:51] Like, yes, they are more expensive, to answer your question. But that difference is, as time goes on, it's getting much, much smaller.

[00:53:58] But this is something else I just thought of. You don't have glow plugs that you have to replace at 10 bucks a pop. Nope. And you could replace two in a day of flying.

[00:54:07] You can.

[00:54:07] I mean, if something's not quite… If you're not careful with your needles, yeah. Yeah, if something's not quite tuned right, you can go through those very quickly. Right. As opposed to the, I don't know, what is it, CJ7 or something like that. CM6. CM6. Yeah, I got the C right. But you can get those fairly inexpensive, and they last a long time. $7. I mean, it's a spark plug.

[00:54:26] Yeah, because I just bought one recently.

[00:54:28] Oh.

[00:54:28] So yeah, it was $7..

[00:54:29] But that's going to last a lot longer than a glow plug. Yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, even in perfect conditions, that's going to last longer than a glow plug will. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And that's… Yeah, so… And glow plugs, I think the last time I looked at them were 12 to 15 bucks.

[00:54:44] Well, they're not… Well, they're going up. Because apparently rhodium, which is the metal they use to make the coil out of, is getting harder and harder to get, and they're raising the price of it. So, yeah, the cost of glow plugs are going up. I think in OS number 8, you can still get them for about 10 bucks, depending on where you find it. Oh, really?

[00:55:04] But, yeah, they're, they used to be, I remember when we used to sell them at the hobby shop, they're a five and a quarter apiece. Oh, wow. And they're over, I think they're probably over $10 by now. It's been a while since I've had to buy them, because I have a pretty good stockpile of them, but, because I have so many nitro engines. So, James, yeah, I can't think of a reason not to go gas, unless it's size.

[00:55:29] Like I said, the 40 size, the 60 size, well, maybe not even 60 size, because they make, 60 size replacements now. I think the Evolution 17cc, I think now, is a great 60 size replacement. It seems from most of the stuff I've read, barring issues with, I guess they may have had issues with the carburetor. But anyway, 40 size airplanes, I think we're still kind of in uncharted territory with gasoline powered engines.

[00:55:59] But anything bigger than that, yeah, I can’t really. I can’t think of a reason other than nostalgia to go with nitro over gas.

[00:56:08] Well, yeah, I have that Super Sky Bolt. Super Sky Bolt! And that has a, I think it's an RCGF 15cc on it?

[00:56:16] I think that’s what’s on there, yeah.

[00:56:17] Yeah, and that's the smallest gas engine I've ever had. Flies great. Flies great, runs really well. I mean… That's a good 60 size replacement. Yeah, you can't go wrong with something that size.

[00:56:28] Yeah, so James mentions he's thinking about a new airplane, which is, I think he was looking at the Revolver 70, which, there you go. a 15 to 20cc gasser would be a great engine for that airframe.

[00:56:41] Yeah, and the, so I don't know what the RCGF ones are, like price-wise, but that's like the lower, the entry level, kind of like the Chinese knockoff kind of things. But, I've had that and not had any problems with it.

[00:56:55] Now, granted, you don’t have a lot of time with it.

[00:56:58] No, I don't have a ton of time. Enough, though. But enough to where I would expect some sort of problems by now. Sure. I mean, does that make you follow what I'm saying?

[00:57:07] Yeah, yeah. So you've had it long enough that you feel like you would, any problems would have surfaced by now?

[00:57:12] Well, I've had it long enough to where I feel like if there's a problem with it, it's well-deserved problem. I mean, like it's something where I'm not like, this is a terrible engine. Right. It's just things happen over time, I understand. So that's where I think I am with that one right now. Like, if I had a problem with that or the Zenoa G26 that I have on that other one.

[00:57:32] Well, that’s a quality engine right there.

[00:57:34] Right. And I haven't had any problems with that one either. And nor would I expect you to. Same with the DA-170. I've not had any problems with that one. Also a quality engine. That was a very expensive engine. But my, yeah, that's a fun one. But yeah, I mean, like some of the nitro ones.

[00:57:50] Well, to be fair, you can’t get a nitro that size.

[00:57:54] Well, no, because it’d go through like a four and a half gallon- four and a half gallons of nitro fuel in a five-minute flight. I can’t imagine how much that would go through.

[00:58:03] So way back when, I used to have a SuperTigre, I think it was a 2500, which is a 2.5 cubic inch, which whatever that works out to in cc's. More than 2.5.

[00:58:13] More than 2.5,. Yeah, whatever it is.

[00:58:15] I remember flying that thing and going through a gallon of fuel in a weekend. Now, granted, this was way back when it was, I think it was in an Ultimate biplane or something like that. And I flew it a lot, right?

[00:58:29] Yeah.

[00:58:30] But easily. A gallon of fuel in a weekend.

[00:58:33] Gosh, that's just expensive. Yeah. Well, and that's, back then we didn't really have many options for gasoline back then.

[00:58:40] But yeah, that would be quite expensive today.

[00:58:44] Yeah. If I'm buying it, it's 35 bucks a gallon. If you're buying it, it's a lot cheaper. But see, I don't plan on going through a lot of glow fuel, so I didn't buy a bunch.

[00:58:53] Yeah. And I did because I wanted to do, I still haven't flown as much as I really wanted to.

[00:58:58] It’s been so windy here. I mean, like the last couple of weekends I’ve been wanting to get out there. It has been so windy that you couldn’t.

[00:59:04] Yeah.

[00:59:05] I mean it’s just, it’s been terrible. I couldn’t even fly anything here. It’s been so bad.

[00:59:08] Yeah.

[00:59:08] So, yeah. Some of the bigger airplanes that we could have flown, I feel like. No, and not this past weekend. I mean, it was gusting to where the trees were moving a lot here. And maybe it was different where we fly, because that's a half hour away or so. But, I mean, out here, like it was so bad that when it was hot out, whatever day that was, it wasn't hot, because the wind was just constantly blowing on you. Yeah.

[00:59:32] So, well, anyway, James, like I said, I wish I could convince you to go nitro, but I really can't think of a great reason to choose that over gasoline. If nostalgia is not your thing, then it makes more sense to go gasoline.

[00:59:49] So, what you're saying is, the future of RC airplanes lies with gasoline. No, no.

[00:59:55] That’s not what I’m saying.

[00:59:56] And electric. That's not what I'm saying. What you're saying is nitro is going by the wayside. No.

[01:00:01] No. I did not say that. There will always be a market, even if it's just a niche, for nitro, because of guys like me.

[01:00:09] No, I get it. I mean, and what? To be honest.

[01:00:12] Guys and girls. There's women out there, too, that fly RC airplanes and fly nitro.

[01:00:16] So, honestly, like, you cannot get the smell out of electric. You can't get the smell out of gasoline that you can out of glue. And I love that nitro smell. I mean, I really do.

[01:00:28] Yeah, I do, too. So. It takes me back. Every time I smell one, it takes me back to that first experience I had with a nitro

[01:00:36] Airplane, both my neighbor there. That's awesome.

[01:00:39] Which is a great memory for me.

[01:00:40] Oh, you’re cheering up, I am.

[01:00:47] It's time for RC Plane Lab's Tool of the Week.

[01:00:54] And today's Tool of the Week is, or this week's Tool of the Week is.

[01:00:58] Today’s weekly tool thing is:

[01:01:00] Today's, this week's Tool of the Week of the Day of the Week is, I'm sorry.

[01:01:06] This week's Tool of the Day. No, wait. Nice. This day's Tool of the Week is the airplane stand. No, airplane stand. It's like such an easy, awesome idea. Yeah. And it comes in handy all the time. Like, if you're working on an airplane, if you're, you don't always need to have it sitting on its wheels. Sometimes you want it to be nose up. Sometimes you want it to be belly up. This thing will do it perfectly every time. And it holds it well. Yeah.

[01:01:33] So the ones we're talking about are the Robart. Yeah. the, the styrofoamy little.

[01:01:41] I think it's actually called the Super Stand 2.

[01:01:43] Is the bigger one with the, with the pivoting. Which, yeah, I know what you're talking about. There you go. Which, you have a very smart idea on how you hold those on because mine fall off all the time. And I know I took mine out to the, to the, to the field a couple weeks ago or whatever it was. And you just started laughing at me.

[01:02:02] Chasing the cradles down the flight line.

[01:02:04] Because as I took it out of the truck, it, it fell off and then I'm trying to find it and carry everything. And what do you do with yours? Cause it was actually a good idea that I have not done yet.

[01:02:13] Yeah. So I just, I just drilled a hole right through it, through the cradle and the stand. And then I just plugged a, plugged a dowel, cut a piece of wooden dowel rod to, to fit the hole and pinned them in place.

[01:02:25] That is brilliant. I mean, I never. I never thought about that. I just always like cuss that thing whenever I pick it up and hold it at the wrong angle.

[01:02:32] Yeah.

[01:02:33] And then half the time you, you store it and then you lose one of them when you store it and then you get it out. And, it's a pain.

[01:02:39] I’ve seen lots of different approaches to connecting these cradles to the stand. I’ve seen some guys use double-sided tape. Well then, it’s fixed at an angle.

[01:02:46] It doesn't pivot. Yeah.

[01:02:48] And yeah, I just, like, I don't even know where I got the idea. Maybe, it may have been my own idea. I don't, I can't, I don't know. I just, I don't think I'm smart enough to come up with that on my own. Maybe, maybe I was, but I just got tired of dropping the dang things.

[01:03:02] What's the, what's the saying? Every now and then even a blind squirrel finds a nut or something. Right, exactly. So there you go.

[01:03:06] Maybe even a stopped clock is right twice a day right.

[01:03:09] There you are.

[01:03:09] So, yeah, I just drilled a hole in there. Like, I tried to find, the exact center so it would do this cool pivoting thing, and it works.

[01:03:16] Yeah, that’s a good idea.

[01:03:18] I haven’t lost a cradle yet. Well, since I did that,

[01:03:21] Yeah.

[01:03:21] But, yeah, Robart actually makes two stands. They make two sizes. They make the Super Stand 2, which I think that's what it's called, is the one we're talking about. And then they also make a smaller one that is like a tray with two uprights. And it's designed for smaller airplanes, probably 40 size and smaller. But it works great. It's great to have in your hangar so you can store airplanes on it. Or, if it's a smaller airplane, you can flip it over.

[01:03:45] And like I work on my reactor, biplane on this little stand.

[01:03:49] It works great. So is that a one-piece, then, piece of foam, or how does that?

[01:03:53] So, it's three pieces. So it's got a tray, right? And then the two uprights just simply plug into the bottom of the tray, and it's all held together by friction.

[01:04:02] Oh, and it works well.

[01:04:03] It works awesome.

[01:04:04] It kind of scares me.

[01:04:05] Yeah.

[01:04:05] Like I’d be afraid it would like just fall over.

[01:04:08] Me too. But they've designed it in such a way that it engages quite a bit of material when you plug them in.

[01:04:15] Oh, okay. And then the base of them is nice and flat and square, and it actually seats up against the tray so that there's not a lot of rocking side to side. Not a lot of wiggle?

[01:04:24] Yeah.

[01:04:24] Awesome.

[01:04:24] But, yeah, it's great for, like I said, smaller airplanes, but the Superstand, too, it's good for big airplanes. I mean, I put my big 50cc, yeah, well, compared to your yak, it's not big. It's a good size. To me, my 50cc card and yak, I'll flip it upside down and put it on my Superstand without any trouble at all. Works awesome.

[01:04:44] That’s awesome.

[01:04:44] Yep. So that's the tool of the week.

[01:04:46] I didn't realize it would hold something that size, too. Oh, yeah. Yeah, no problem. I've only used, like, 40 to 60 size airplanes on it.

[01:04:51] Yeah, well, it has those big plastic. The big stand. Has the big plastic standoffs or not standoffs?

[01:05:00] Rod things. Rod, yeah.

[01:05:01] They’re actually quite substantial, especially.

[01:05:04] They are.

[01:05:04] And because it’s a pretty tight fit. Those things are really tight in the holes on the uprights.

[01:05:09] And it's adjustable. It is, yeah. For how wide you want it.

[01:05:11] Yep, yep.

[01:05:12] Now, don’t you have a couple of them that you actually store airplanes on, or is that just a transport?

[01:05:16] No, I've bought many of these things over the years, and one of them. So they're made of foam. And what happens when gasoline touches foam? Well, if you're not familiar, I don't recommend trying at home, but a little bit of gasoline on expanded foam or whatever kind of foam this is, it will just eat right through it.

[01:05:36] Yeah, like there's nothing there. Yeah.

[01:05:38] So one of the stands I flipped an airplane over, it was a gas-powered one, gasoline, and fuel leaked out and got on the stand and really kind of ate some holes in it. So now that particular stand is a permanent stand that just sits on the floor, and I keep my whatever airplane on it. Because I'm a huge fan of not storing airplane on the wheels. Oh, yeah. It's a flat spot over time. Yep. I think we may have mentioned that.

[01:06:04] I’ve heard about that already.

[01:06:06] So, yeah, the airplane stand is the tool of the week, and Robart is not the only manufacturer. There's a few other manufacturers out there that make them, and they're really not that complicated. You could make them yourself pretty easily.

[01:06:18] Yeah, I’ve seen a lot of them made out of like PVC pipe and stuff.

[01:06:22] Right. And I have one of those out in the garage, a big one.

[01:06:24] Oh, do you? Yeah. I say I need to make one. Yeah. I don't have any of those, but.

[01:06:28] Yeah, they're super easy to make and so handy to have around. And, in fact, they're so handy that our club field even has some for your use at the field.

[01:06:37] Oh, yeah. They're stored under the tables. They're underneath the tables. I forgot about that.

[01:06:40] Because they’re just so darn handy.

[01:06:43] Okay.

[01:06:44] Tool of the week airplane stand.

[01:06:46] Cool. Anything else?

[01:06:47] No. That's all I got.

[01:06:49] Well, thanks, everybody, for listening. Until next week, I'm Ron. And I'm Tom. Good night. Good night.

[01:06:55] We hope you enjoyed this episode of the RC Plane Lab Podcast. For topic suggestions, to ask questions, or to give any feedback, connect with us at rcplanelab.com or email us direct at either ron at rcplanelab.com or tom at rcplanelab.com. You can also text us or leave us a voicemail at 818-351-9846. Please subscribe, rate, and review us on your favorite podcast app. Until next time, may your landings be gentle. We'll be right back.